A+ Test is unfair

This A+ Certification test is remarkably unfair. In my class we used all
sorts of different materials to offer loads of topics. Our main focus
was on Mike Meyers oversized paper weight. This book was essentially
useless. It could have been 50% smaller if he didn't go into over wordy
ramblings. We were studying through November/December for the Hardware
exam. THEN we were notified that the objectives for the test had just
been updated a couple weeks before we were to take our test. The
instructor scrambled to get the students copies of the "A+ CoursePrep
ExamGuide" that supposedly covered the new objectives in a compressed
form. The sad thing about this guide was that it was loaded with errors
from page to page. The instructor and I had to varify many things by
researching the internet and adding corrections on the requires pages.
In one instance the choices were a-d. The answer in the back of the book
was f!!! Anyway, I studied roughly 3 hours a day in this book to verse
myself on everything, which included mountains of stuff we hadn't
covered, which was the updated info. When test day came, anxiety was
high. I was immediately horrified to see that question after question
was not covered in the various texts I had read. I answered questions by
breaking things down to logic and deduction, as well as trying to equate
answers to the questions in some way. It was so unfair. By the end of
the test, I would assume that only 10-20% of the material was covered in
anything we read. Thankfully, logic paid off and I passed the test, but
it was less from the reading and more from my own logic, which was not
fair. What's worse is I was the only one in the class that passed.
Everyone's morale went down as we began to study for the OS exam, which
was to follow just under 2 months later. The instructor seemed to take
the class failure hard and sort of gave up. We went into class and did
nothing but study. Very few exercises were offered to us, which cause me
some anger and resentment. The instructor did get one new copy of the
updated Mike Meyers book, and photo copied the necessary chapters.
Again, I found his chapters tedious and more irritating than helpful. I
again studied in my exam guide, and other materials, insanely, but this
time even more extreme. Test day was yesterday, and I was again
horrified as question after question was unknown and unseen material. I
trudged through it, reading many questions over and over and over. I was
running low on time and had to speed things up a bit. By the end of the
exam I was confident I failed miserably. Much to my surprise I received
the 'Congratulations' screen. I was again helped mainly by logic and
deduction, and a little help from the exam guide. The OS exam was more
ridiculous, and at most I recognised 10% of what I saw. I have been told
my logical mind will make me a good tech, but the exams are supposed to
test ones knowledge, not logic skills. You're probably thinking "What
are you complaining about, you passed both exams, and on your first
attempt with only 3 1/2 months of class time?" The reason is because the
subject material should be able to be covered properly in the reading
materials. Another total class failure, aside from myself, means that
something is wrong. Everyone studied hard, but it is not enough to pass
the A+ exams. If you are nervous about taking these exams, you should
be.

Scott, A+ Certified - February 12, 2004

Scott Davies

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:45:16 GMT, Scott Davies <>
wrote:

>This A+ Certification test is remarkably unfair. In my class we used all
>sorts of different materials to offer loads of topics. Our main focus
>was on Mike Meyers oversized paper weight. This book was essentially
>useless. It could have been 50% smaller if he didn't go into over wordy
>ramblings. We were studying through November/December for the Hardware
>exam. THEN we were notified that the objectives for the test had just
>been updated a couple weeks before we were to take our test.

But that had been announced many months previously, and the new
objectives released many months previously as well.

Both you and your instructor should have been aware of this.

The exam is, in my opinion, poor, but not for the reasons that you
give. The application of logic and experince is not something to
decry. Nor is the need to read questions carefully, winnow the wheat
from the chaff and isolate the important from the unimportant: that's
what ou'll do all the time in the IT industry.

Congratulations on your pass.

Gordon Findlay

OK, maybe I should have titled my subject "The A+ objectives are too vague".
I'm just frustrated about the sheer vagueness of what the test was to include.
Not even the more focused study guide offered the amount of help that would have
been necessary to score higher. For a minor example: You can read about what
CHKDSK does in a basic sense, but when you're given questions about multiple
combinations added to that command, and you didn't read about any, it can cause
a problem. I don't doubt the instructor was a big blame. He had this over
confidence that everyone would do just fine, and that was shot to hell when the
reality was revealed. The A+ exam is just a portion of the course I am taking,
and the instructor seems to be wanting to drop it for future classes. Like I
originally said, he took it hard.
And to Mr. Over reactionary that first responded to my post, I didn't expect the
test to be easy, otherwise I wouldn't have studied for hours a day. I didn't
blame Mike Meyers. I just stated his book was way too needlessly wordy. I can do
without all the round about stories and analogies, and just deal with the facts.
It would have been a much more tolerable read. I've seen many others online that
were irritated by his book. My whole class saw it as a over glorified basic
introduction, but not much beyond that. I also saw many others online
complaining of the surprise topics on these exams. I don't know what the proper
length of an average A+ course should be for people with virtually no background
in IT. My experience previous to this course was just basic card and program
installation at home, so I guess I should be quite proud of myself, especially
since it took one of the IT techs at the school 3 tries before passing.

ImhoTech wrote:

> The was your instruction, not the test. You should file a civil suit against
> the company providing the instruction. The change to the new objectives was
> planned and announced well in advance, in fact a guess at the time frame you
> mention indicates that any reputable school or instructor should have known
> about the pending changes before you ever started the class.
>

Scott Davies

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:41:24 GMT, Scott Davies <>
wrote:

>OK, maybe I should have titled my subject "The A+ objectives are too vague".
>I'm just frustrated about the sheer vagueness of what the test was to include.
>Not even the more focused study guide offered the amount of help that would have
>been necessary to score higher. For a minor example: You can read about what
>CHKDSK does in a basic sense, but when you're given questions about multiple
>combinations

If you are referring to switches, do you mean to tell us that the
instructor didn't suspect that multiple switches on common, often-used
commands wasn't a possibility?

Tom

>added to that command, and you didn't read about any, it can cause
>a problem. I don't doubt the instructor was a big blame. He had this over
>confidence that everyone would do just fine, and that was shot to hell when the
>reality was revealed. The A+ exam is just a portion of the course I am taking,
>and the instructor seems to be wanting to drop it for future classes. Like I
>originally said, he took it hard.
>And to Mr. Over reactionary that first responded to my post, I didn't expect the
>test to be easy, otherwise I wouldn't have studied for hours a day. I didn't
>blame Mike Meyers. I just stated his book was way too needlessly wordy. I can do
>without all the round about stories and analogies, and just deal with the facts.
>It would have been a much more tolerable read. I've seen many others online that
>were irritated by his book. My whole class saw it as a over glorified basic
>introduction, but not much beyond that. I also saw many others online
>complaining of the surprise topics on these exams. I don't know what the proper
>length of an average A+ course should be for people with virtually no background
>in IT. My experience previous to this course was just basic card and program
>installation at home, so I guess I should be quite proud of myself, especially
>since it took one of the IT techs at the school 3 tries before passing.
>
>ImhoTech wrote:
>
>> The was your instruction, not the test. You should file a civil suit against
>> the company providing the instruction. The change to the new objectives was
>> planned and announced well in advance, in fact a guess at the time frame you
>> mention indicates that any reputable school or instructor should have known
>> about the pending changes before you ever started the class.
>>

Tom MacIntyre

Seriously, by the time of the OS info, the instructor had checked out. It was purely
up to each student to figure it out for themselves on their own. The instructor was
there to attempt to answer any questions we had, but that was about it. The most we
did was 2 days of drilling as a class, just before the exam, using the practice exams
on the CD with the latest Mike Meyers book. Those practices gave me some false
confidence since most of the questions were surrounding what I had studied, but the
exam was way different than the practice exams.

Tom MacIntyre wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:41:24 GMT, Scott Davies <>
> wrote:
>
> >OK, maybe I should have titled my subject "The A+ objectives are too vague".
> >I'm just frustrated about the sheer vagueness of what the test was to include.
> >Not even the more focused study guide offered the amount of help that would have
> >been necessary to score higher. For a minor example: You can read about what
> >CHKDSK does in a basic sense, but when you're given questions about multiple
> >combinations
>
> If you are referring to switches, do you mean to tell us that the
> instructor didn't suspect that multiple switches on common, often-used
> commands wasn't a possibility?
>
> Tom

Scott Davies

Scott

I have to agree with most here - your instructor and the place you studied
sucked. However, if you had visited the Comptia site and viewed the exam
objectives for yourself you would have had a better idea what to study for.
You would have also seen that the objectives were changing slightly to bring
them into somewhat current state.
I think however your criticism of Mike Meyers book shows your attitude
though. ""Our main focus
was on Mike Meyers oversized paper weight. This book was essentially
useless. It could have been 50% smaller if he didn't go into over wordy
ramblings. "" You may consider those as ramblings, but in fact that are a
friendly way to impart not only the knowledge to pass the actual exam, but
to also help you understand how a computer works.
There is not much use having an A+ cert if you have no idea how a bus
operates and have no clue how to diagnose simple errors.

RussS

You say you just want to deal with the facts, so here goes :

> OK, maybe I should have titled my subject "The A+ objectives are too
vague".
> I'm just frustrated about the sheer vagueness of what the test was to
include.
>
*FACT : The objectives are on the comptia website. They tell you in quite a
bit of detail exactly what is on the test. Most of the books available are
on the old objectives. It sounds like you've been studying an old book.

>For a minor example: You can read about what
> CHKDSK does in a basic sense, but when you're given questions about
multiple
> combinations added to that command, and you didn't read about any, it can
cause
> a problem.
*FACT : OS Objectives Domain 1.5 - identify the major operating system
utilities, their purpose, location, and available switches.
5th utility listed is CHKDSK. btw, "multiple combinations added to that
command" = "switches"

> I didn't
> blame Mike Meyers. I just stated his book was way too needlessly wordy. I
can do
> without all the round about stories and analogies, and just deal with the
facts.
*FACT : Mike's book is wordy because he's trying to teach you to be a good
tech. If you're a good tech, you'll pass the exam. That's his approach, he
says so in the book. It sounds like you really COULD have done with all the
round about stories and analogies, from what you're saying.

>I don't know what the proper
> length of an average A+ course should be for people with virtually no
background
> in IT.
*FACT : the A+ is meant to be aimed at techs with 6 months on the job
experience. ("On the job" means reading, studying and learning too. If you
end up working in IT you'll find that "oversized paperweights" are as much a
part of your life as network cables and RAM sticks )

> especially
> since it took one of the IT techs at the school 3 tries before passing.
>
*NOTFACT but true anyway : If the staff can't pass the test, there's
something wrong.

*FACTSSSS : Any school that teaches A+ should be in touch with what's going
on with the exam. The new exam started at the end of November. You say you
were still studying the old objectives through December? This is outrageous!
ImhoTech is absolutely right. You need to see a lawyer. That is negligent
beyond belief.

I'm not criticising you for not knowing all this - your school should have
told you. They blatantly haven't got a f&cking clue what they're doing.

JM
--
JonathanMiles at uk2 dot net


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Jonathan Miles

Scott,

This is all simply the nature of the beast. You have to understand that the
A+ Exam is designed to
test the knowledge of a tech rep with an actual year to year and a half's
experience. Many things
that you don't learn in a classroom you learn from experience. This is the
reason why you often
hear some people complain about "paper" A+'s or MSCE's. They seem to somehow
resent the
fact that someone could just step into an academic discipline, without any
real world experience,
be good at remembering facts, and pass the test.

The fact is that the A+ exam can be incredible difficult or incredibly easy.
I personally have over
twenty years of hands on experience with PCs. My first computer was the good
'ol Apple IIe. I must
have taken that thing apart and put it back together seven ways from Sunday
over time. I avidly
read PC magazines and books, started a BBS system in the 90's, I've put
together countless systems,
and even started an online PC integrator company (which by the way failed
miserably . In addition,
I've done tech support with Gateway and whenever someone's crap breaks, I'm
the first one they run
to to try and fix it. My point in all this is that I have a lot of 'hands
on' experience. In the past I've bought
A+ books (Including Myers' 4th ed - which I loved) and have taken numerous
practice tests. I usually
passed them by a nice margin too.

But........................ when I recently took a local 3 week course (paid
for by our unemployment
commission as Gateway gave us all the axe) things had changed drastically!
Somehow my text scores
had gone from usually very nice to barely passing or even flunking about 30%
of the time!These tests
had become seriously specific and technical. Here I am with the ability to
fix just about anything PC
and I'm flunking the crap out of tests because I don't know such things as
the physical size of a particular
Mobo, or which pin in this connector connects with which pin on a crossover
cable, or what the friggin
hexadecimal address is of a particular device's BIOS! I mean, who knows this
crap!? Those are the
sorts of things that reference manuals are for. But as long as the knowledge
is within the field of PCs,
it's fair game for the A+ exam. This very fact alone makes the test
"potentially" very difficult. That is why
books like Meyer's text weigh five pounds and come 1000+ pages thick. It's
ridiculous because any
of 10,000 facts are possible test points on the exam.

So as it turns out, one guy gets very basic questions on the actual exam and
passes with flying colors so
he comes back into this forum and shouts out to all that "man this test was
easy!" At the same time
another person gets a test that asks 30 out of 80 questions that he's never
seen or heard of before, he
fails, and shouts out that "this is the most ridiculous and unfair test I've
ever seen!" Any and all experiences
between the two extreme can and does happen all day. That is why experience
makes such a difference.
It make it easier because of familiarity.

I just took and passed my core test yesterday but my score was only 630 out
of 900. Personally I was
glad I passed but very disappointed in my score. But that's life. there are
just too many facts that you could
be tested on, from the ultra simplistic to the ridiculously technical, and
some of it you will have never heard
of before. So don't blame the teachers. They can't possibly cover all you
would need to know even in four
months of classes. That's one reason I don't believe in those expensive two
and three week classes. You
couldn't possibly learn much of anything from them because you're too busy
flying over the highlights just to
cover all the objectives. All you can do is get as much hands on experience
as you can and study your A--
off and hope for the best! Congratulations on your pass and don't let it
stress you out. You no doubt have
many more ten pound books to look forward to in your IT future!

David Bland

--
David Bland
"Scott Davies" <> wrote in message
news:...
> OK, maybe I should have titled my subject "The A+ objectives are too
vague".
> I'm just frustrated about the sheer vagueness of what the test was to
include.
> Not even the more focused study guide offered the amount of help that
would have
> been necessary to score higher. For a minor example: You can read about
what
> CHKDSK does in a basic sense, but when you're given questions about
multiple
> combinations added to that command, and you didn't read about any, it can
cause
> a problem. I don't doubt the instructor was a big blame. He had this over
> confidence that everyone would do just fine, and that was shot to hell
when the
> reality was revealed. The A+ exam is just a portion of the course I am
taking,
> and the instructor seems to be wanting to drop it for future classes. Like
I
> originally said, he took it hard.
> And to Mr. Over reactionary that first responded to my post, I didn't
expect the
> test to be easy, otherwise I wouldn't have studied for hours a day. I
didn't
> blame Mike Meyers. I just stated his book was way too needlessly wordy. I
can do
> without all the round about stories and analogies, and just deal with the
facts.
> It would have been a much more tolerable read. I've seen many others
online that
> were irritated by his book. My whole class saw it as a over glorified
basic
> introduction, but not much beyond that. I also saw many others online
> complaining of the surprise topics on these exams. I don't know what the
proper
> length of an average A+ course should be for people with virtually no
background
> in IT. My experience previous to this course was just basic card and
program
> installation at home, so I guess I should be quite proud of myself,
especially
> since it took one of the IT techs at the school 3 tries before passing.
>
> ImhoTech wrote:
>
> > The was your instruction, not the test. You should file a civil suit
against
> > the company providing the instruction. The change to the new objectives
was
> > planned and announced well in advance, in fact a guess at the time frame
you
> > mention indicates that any reputable school or instructor should have
known
> > about the pending changes before you ever started the class.
> >
>

David BlandIII

"David BlandIII" <> wrote in message
news:L8gXb.20437$...
> So don't blame the teachers. They can't possibly cover all you
> would need to know even in four
> months of classes.

This is true, even if they hadn't been teaching you the wrong course for 4
months!

JM
--
JonathanMiles at uk2 dot net


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Jonathan Miles

Shoot, I passed both tests using nothing but Mike Meyers book, and
prior experience. And found both tests absurdly easy, I have never had
any formal training in the computer field at all either.






On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:45:16 GMT, Scott Davies <>
wrote:

>This A+ Certification test is remarkably unfair. In my class we used all
>sorts of different materials to offer loads of topics. Our main focus
>was on Mike Meyers oversized paper weight. This book was essentially
>useless. It could have been 50% smaller if he didn't go into over wordy
>ramblings. We were studying through November/December for the Hardware
>exam. THEN we were notified that the objectives for the test had just
>been updated a couple weeks before we were to take our test. The
>instructor scrambled to get the students copies of the "A+ CoursePrep
>ExamGuide" that supposedly covered the new objectives in a compressed
>form. The sad thing about this guide was that it was loaded with errors
>from page to page. The instructor and I had to varify many things by
>researching the internet and adding corrections on the requires pages.
>In one instance the choices were a-d. The answer in the back of the book
>was f!!! Anyway, I studied roughly 3 hours a day in this book to verse
>myself on everything, which included mountains of stuff we hadn't
>covered, which was the updated info. When test day came, anxiety was
>high. I was immediately horrified to see that question after question
>was not covered in the various texts I had read. I answered questions by
>breaking things down to logic and deduction, as well as trying to equate
>answers to the questions in some way. It was so unfair. By the end of
>the test, I would assume that only 10-20% of the material was covered in
>anything we read. Thankfully, logic paid off and I passed the test, but
>it was less from the reading and more from my own logic, which was not
>fair. What's worse is I was the only one in the class that passed.
>Everyone's morale went down as we began to study for the OS exam, which
>was to follow just under 2 months later. The instructor seemed to take
>the class failure hard and sort of gave up. We went into class and did
>nothing but study. Very few exercises were offered to us, which cause me
>some anger and resentment. The instructor did get one new copy of the
>updated Mike Meyers book, and photo copied the necessary chapters.
>Again, I found his chapters tedious and more irritating than helpful. I
>again studied in my exam guide, and other materials, insanely, but this
>time even more extreme. Test day was yesterday, and I was again
>horrified as question after question was unknown and unseen material. I
>trudged through it, reading many questions over and over and over. I was
>running low on time and had to speed things up a bit. By the end of the
>exam I was confident I failed miserably. Much to my surprise I received
>the 'Congratulations' screen. I was again helped mainly by logic and
>deduction, and a little help from the exam guide. The OS exam was more
>ridiculous, and at most I recognised 10% of what I saw. I have been told
>my logical mind will make me a good tech, but the exams are supposed to
>test ones knowledge, not logic skills. You're probably thinking "What
>are you complaining about, you passed both exams, and on your first
>attempt with only 3 1/2 months of class time?" The reason is because the
>subject material should be able to be covered properly in the reading
>materials. Another total class failure, aside from myself, means that
>something is wrong. Everyone studied hard, but it is not enough to pass
>the A+ exams. If you are nervous about taking these exams, you should
>be.
>
>Scott, A+ Certified - February 12, 2004

rock