jobless Recovery, many IT pros out of work

with all these IT pros out of work,it makes sence to stick with
repairs,serving practial marketplace needs


Monday, January 12, 2004
False Recovery -- Economic Commentary by Stephen Roach Morgan Stanley
Global Economic Forum ^The Great American Job Machine has long powered
the US business cycle. It drives the income growth that fuels personal
consumption. That internally generated fuel is all but absent in the
current upturn. The US economy is mired in a jobless recovery the
likes of which it has never seen. This has profound implications for
the economic outlook, the political climate, trade policies, and the
global business cycle.

Contrary to popular spin, the US labor market is not on the mend. In
the final five months of 2003, a total of only 278,000 new jobs were
added by nonfarm businesses — a gain that is easily matched in a
single month of a typical hiring-led recovery. Moreover, literally all
of the job growth that has occurred over this period has been
concentrated in three industry segments — temporary staffing,
education, and healthcare — which collectively added 286,000 positions
in the final five months of last year. The "animal spirits" of a
broad-based hiring-led revival by US businesses are all but absent.
Jobs may be rising in America's low-cost contingent workforce (temps)
and in high-cost-areas that are shielded from international
competition (health and education), but positions continue to be
eliminated in manufacturing, retail trade, and financial and
information services.

The modern-day US economy has never been through anything like this.
Fully 25 months into this so-called economic recovery, private-sector
jobs are still about 1% below levels prevailing at the official trough
of the last recession in November 2001; at this juncture in the
typical recovery, jobs are normally up about 6%. Had Corporate America
held to the hiring trajectory of the typical cycle, fully 7.7 million
more American workers would be employed today. Moreover, the current
hiring shortfall far outstrips that which was evident in America's
only other jobless recovery — the upturn following the recession of
1990–91. In that instance, it took about 12 months for the job machine
to kick back into gear. By our calculations, the current job profile
in the private economy is now 2.4 million workers below the trajectory
of the jobless recovery a decade ago.


The "imported productivity" provided by offshoring has become
especially evident in IT-enabled services — where the knowledge-based
output of a remote low-wage white-collar workforce now has real-time,
e-based connectivity to production platforms in the developed world.
One of the clearest examples of this is a significant shortfall of job
creation in America's IT and information services industry. In the
upturn of the early 1990s, employment in this industry had increased
nearly 4% by the 25th month of that recovery; by contrast, in the
current cycle, such jobs are down over 1% — even though the US economy
is far more IT-intensive today than it was back then. At the same
time, knowledge professionals' headcount in India's IT sector has
risen from 50,000 in 1990–91 to an estimated 625,000 workers in
2002–03.

I don't think these trends are a coincidence. More likely than not,
they are the flip sides of the same coin — a shift of
comparable-quality labor input from the high-wage US services sector
to the low-wage Indian services sector. And, of course, this trend is
only the tip of a much bigger iceberg, as offshoring now spreads up
the value chain to include professions such as engineering, design,
and accounting, as well as lawyers, actuaries, doctors, and financial
analysts. Long dubbed the "nontradables" sector, the IT-enabled
globalization of services is now in the process of transforming this
vast sector into yet another tradable segment of the US economy —
posing a formidable challenge to the once unstoppable Great American
Job Machine.

Joe

I saw a panel discussion on CNN (computers + CNN = no life at all, boy
I;m lucky i flukd algbra, i thout its was allana'sbra which i
succeeded in the first time, but fluked the second)

NY state senator Schumer was the celeb on view, there was an
incredibly good looking leggy blonde economist from the Brookings
institute, with an amazingly beautiful name, the CEO of the American
Chamber of Commerce(business uber alles) and some old guy with an eye
twitch, Schumer's pal, also from Brookings institute.

the guy with the eye twitch pointed out that all the folks who
promoted free global trade based their ideas on the concept of
comparative advantage, an early concept in capitalist economic theory.
e.g.., Portugal is good with wine. England is good with textiles.
Portugal gets the wine business globally, England gets the textile
trade. the comparative advantages enable each country to make the
most of their skills.

that, said the man with the twitch, is dead. ESPECIALLY AND MOST
PARTICULARLY with the high tech industry. if, for example, we have
remote admin solutions for Windows server 03 and, for that matter,
Novell's new Linux servers.

A person who can use that software to manage a server in the US costs
from 45-65 K a year, depending on location. A person in India or
china who can do it costs from 10-15 K a year with a 7 to 10 K rakeoff
from the Outsource company. Assuming that this remote management
software is learnable by people with IQs above, say 105 or 110 or even
120, we cannot compete. There is no comparative advantage. This
business is so big that the country it goes to scores a win and the
country that loses it scores an irredeemable loss.

There is no amount of education that can guard us from this loss.
When we say, more science, math, computers, blah blah blah, in our edu
system, we are saying "let's crank out more 60 K a year workers to
compete with these 15 K a year workers. "

According to the perspectives and values of American business, there
is no competition here.

He's right about that. He also pointed out that business (and Bushie)
are now advocating more or less unlimited immigration to supply low
wage workers to various businesses and, of course, to those who need
nannies. (remember nannie-gate?) And he pointed out that this is a
complete no-win situation, with millions of people entering the
country to sacrifice (hard work, bad neighborhoods, better life for
the kids) for expanded horizons while those horizons are in the
process of being shut down. So his scenario for the immediate future
is increased pressure from below (including those Americans the
immigrants push out of jobs due to low wage demands) while the
stairways up are slowly collapsing.

A potentially explosive situation, as we have seen over and over again
in our present day third-world neighborhoods.

He also predicted the US would be a 2nd or 3rd world country in twenty
years. I think he's wrong about that. I think it will take about 40
years.

I'm too old to run a pool on that, but well, who knows? How good does
the education of, say, an electrical engineer have to be to justify a
pay premium of 30 to 50,000 dollars, asked our friend with the twitchy
eye. Well, how good? And how much better does the educations of
network admins have to be after we have higher bandwidth, better
Tivoli, better Openview, better SMS?

You know what was really striking about the panel discussion? The guy
who ran the Chamber of Commerce had very few objections to the
analyses presented by the, shall we say, more downwardly mobile
focused of the panelists. All he kept saying was, "that is a problem
that we have been discussing."

I also read the quotes from Carly Sim- I mean, Fiorina about said
problems. She really should be working at Revlon.

Mike



"Joe" <> wrote in message
news: om...
> with all these IT pros out of work,it makes sence to stick with
> repairs,serving practial marketplace needs
>
>
> Monday, January 12, 2004
> False Recovery -- Economic Commentary by Stephen Roach Morgan
Stanley
> Global Economic Forum ^The Great American Job Machine has long
powered
> the US business cycle. It drives the income growth that fuels
personal
> consumption. That internally generated fuel is all but absent in the
> current upturn. The US economy is mired in a jobless recovery the
> likes of which it has never seen. This has profound implications for
> the economic outlook, the political climate, trade policies, and the
> global business cycle.
>
> Contrary to popular spin, the US labor market is not on the mend. In
> the final five months of 2003, a total of only 278,000 new jobs were
> added by nonfarm businesses - a gain that is easily matched in a
> single month of a typical hiring-led recovery. Moreover, literally
all
> of the job growth that has occurred over this period has been
> concentrated in three industry segments - temporary staffing,
> education, and healthcare - which collectively added 286,000
positions
> in the final five months of last year. The "animal spirits" of a
> broad-based hiring-led revival by US businesses are all but absent.
> Jobs may be rising in America's low-cost contingent workforce
(temps)
> and in high-cost-areas that are shielded from international
> competition (health and education), but positions continue to be
> eliminated in manufacturing, retail trade, and financial and
> information services.
>
> The modern-day US economy has never been through anything like this.
> Fully 25 months into this so-called economic recovery,
private-sector
> jobs are still about 1% below levels prevailing at the official
trough
> of the last recession in November 2001; at this juncture in the
> typical recovery, jobs are normally up about 6%. Had Corporate
America
> held to the hiring trajectory of the typical cycle, fully 7.7
million
> more American workers would be employed today. Moreover, the current
> hiring shortfall far outstrips that which was evident in America's
> only other jobless recovery - the upturn following the recession of
> 1990-91. In that instance, it took about 12 months for the job
machine
> to kick back into gear. By our calculations, the current job profile
> in the private economy is now 2.4 million workers below the
trajectory
> of the jobless recovery a decade ago.
>
>
> The "imported productivity" provided by offshoring has become
> especially evident in IT-enabled services - where the
knowledge-based
> output of a remote low-wage white-collar workforce now has
real-time,
> e-based connectivity to production platforms in the developed world.
> One of the clearest examples of this is a significant shortfall of
job
> creation in America's IT and information services industry. In the
> upturn of the early 1990s, employment in this industry had increased
> nearly 4% by the 25th month of that recovery; by contrast, in the
> current cycle, such jobs are down over 1% - even though the US
economy
> is far more IT-intensive today than it was back then. At the same
> time, knowledge professionals' headcount in India's IT sector has
> risen from 50,000 in 1990-91 to an estimated 625,000 workers in
> 2002-03.
>
> I don't think these trends are a coincidence. More likely than not,
> they are the flip sides of the same coin - a shift of
> comparable-quality labor input from the high-wage US services sector
> to the low-wage Indian services sector. And, of course, this trend
is
> only the tip of a much bigger iceberg, as offshoring now spreads up
> the value chain to include professions such as engineering, design,
> and accounting, as well as lawyers, actuaries, doctors, and
financial
> analysts. Long dubbed the "nontradables" sector, the IT-enabled
> globalization of services is now in the process of transforming this
> vast sector into yet another tradable segment of the US economy -
> posing a formidable challenge to the once unstoppable Great American
> Job Machine.

MF

I just want to say a few things here. First of all I would like to say
I am Indian by birth. I was brought to the states with my parents when
I was eight. I grew up here and was educated with your kids some of
them are quite nice actually. My current status is U.S. citizen. My
field of work is you guessed it computers not that I am getting any
work anymore. All I want to say is I am sorry you are loosing your
jobs don't bitch about it do something about it. If you can do the job
and someone gives it to me I will take it I have to do that or suffer
like I am suffering now.

I just wish you guys would stop bitching "He also predicted the US
would be a 2nd or 3rd world country in twenty years. I think he's
wrong about that. I think it will take about 40 years." The US is
already a third world country even worse then a third world country in
some ways. I am in a prison of sorts whatever I make goes in to rent
credit cards to help pay utilities. I live in a ****ing box (parent's
apartment) with no medical insurance what so ever. If I go apply for
work I am treated like a pariah. Yes people pay me lower wages take
every chance they can to be rude to me and I get treated like crap. I
can't go to India because I don't fit there anymore I can't function
here people treat me like ****…. I can't even ****ing kill myself
(religious thing).

You see Slavery has not been abolished it has evolved. So you want a
decent home so you can raise a family? Pay us a million dollars … oh
you don't have it **** you go work for minimum wage and pay me rent
and remember to smile. Even though you have five years of IT project
experience your good at what you do you can not get work. I can work
at a fast food restaurant with my IT certifications and experience.

The whole IT industry is a big scam all the recruiters and top guys
know each other and if they don't like you. They will blacklist you.
You will NEVER get a job. You will get NOTHING. Who are they? They are
the rich and the power elite. They are not just one race they are
every race and the rest of the people are just commodities like
cattle. Sigh I was given life. Looking forward to death.

On 12 Jan 2004 17:15:27 -0800, (Joe) wrote:

>with all these IT pros out of work,it makes sence to stick with
>repairs,serving practial marketplace needs
>
>
>Monday, January 12, 2004
>False Recovery -- Economic Commentary by Stephen Roach Morgan Stanley
>Global Economic Forum ^The Great American Job Machine has long powered
>the US business cycle. It drives the income growth that fuels personal
>consumption. That internally generated fuel is all but absent in the
>current upturn. The US economy is mired in a jobless recovery the
>likes of which it has never seen. This has profound implications for
>the economic outlook, the political climate, trade policies, and the
>global business cycle.
>
>Contrary to popular spin, the US labor market is not on the mend. In
>the final five months of 2003, a total of only 278,000 new jobs were
>added by nonfarm businesses — a gain that is easily matched in a
>single month of a typical hiring-led recovery. Moreover, literally all
>of the job growth that has occurred over this period has been
>concentrated in three industry segments — temporary staffing,
>education, and healthcare — which collectively added 286,000 positions
>in the final five months of last year. The "animal spirits" of a
>broad-based hiring-led revival by US businesses are all but absent.
>Jobs may be rising in America's low-cost contingent workforce (temps)
>and in high-cost-areas that are shielded from international
>competition (health and education), but positions continue to be
>eliminated in manufacturing, retail trade, and financial and
>information services.
>
>The modern-day US economy has never been through anything like this.
>Fully 25 months into this so-called economic recovery, private-sector
>jobs are still about 1% below levels prevailing at the official trough
>of the last recession in November 2001; at this juncture in the
>typical recovery, jobs are normally up about 6%. Had Corporate America
>held to the hiring trajectory of the typical cycle, fully 7.7 million
>more American workers would be employed today. Moreover, the current
>hiring shortfall far outstrips that which was evident in America's
>only other jobless recovery — the upturn following the recession of
>1990–91. In that instance, it took about 12 months for the job machine
>to kick back into gear. By our calculations, the current job profile
>in the private economy is now 2.4 million workers below the trajectory
>of the jobless recovery a decade ago.
>
>
>The "imported productivity" provided by offshoring has become
>especially evident in IT-enabled services — where the knowledge-based
>output of a remote low-wage white-collar workforce now has real-time,
>e-based connectivity to production platforms in the developed world.
>One of the clearest examples of this is a significant shortfall of job
>creation in America's IT and information services industry. In the
>upturn of the early 1990s, employment in this industry had increased
>nearly 4% by the 25th month of that recovery; by contrast, in the
>current cycle, such jobs are down over 1% — even though the US economy
>is far more IT-intensive today than it was back then. At the same
>time, knowledge professionals' headcount in India's IT sector has
>risen from 50,000 in 1990–91 to an estimated 625,000 workers in
>2002–03.
>
>I don't think these trends are a coincidence. More likely than not,
>they are the flip sides of the same coin — a shift of
>comparable-quality labor input from the high-wage US services sector
>to the low-wage Indian services sector. And, of course, this trend is
>only the tip of a much bigger iceberg, as offshoring now spreads up
>the value chain to include professions such as engineering, design,
>and accounting, as well as lawyers, actuaries, doctors, and financial
>analysts. Long dubbed the "nontradables" sector, the IT-enabled
>globalization of services is now in the process of transforming this
>vast sector into yet another tradable segment of the US economy —
>posing a formidable challenge to the once unstoppable Great American
>Job Machine.

Rrrvvv

Just like to say two things, firstly `things are neither good nor bad, tis
thinking makes them so-------William Shakespeare. Secondly sometimes my
stomach hurts when I laugh !


"Rrrvvv" <> wrote in message
news:.. .
> I just want to say a few things here. First of all I would like to say
> I am Indian by birth. I was brought to the states with my parents when
> I was eight. I grew up here and was educated with your kids some of
> them are quite nice actually. My current status is U.S. citizen. My
> field of work is you guessed it computers not that I am getting any
> work anymore. All I want to say is I am sorry you are loosing your
> jobs don't bitch about it do something about it. If you can do the job
> and someone gives it to me I will take it I have to do that or suffer
> like I am suffering now.
>
> I just wish you guys would stop bitching "He also predicted the US
> would be a 2nd or 3rd world country in twenty years. I think he's
> wrong about that. I think it will take about 40 years." The US is
> already a third world country even worse then a third world country in
> some ways. I am in a prison of sorts whatever I make goes in to rent
> credit cards to help pay utilities. I live in a ****ing box (parent's
> apartment) with no medical insurance what so ever. If I go apply for
> work I am treated like a pariah. Yes people pay me lower wages take
> every chance they can to be rude to me and I get treated like crap. I
> can't go to India because I don't fit there anymore I can't function
> here people treat me like ****.. I can't even ****ing kill myself
> (religious thing).
>
> You see Slavery has not been abolished it has evolved. So you want a
> decent home so you can raise a family? Pay us a million dollars . oh
> you don't have it **** you go work for minimum wage and pay me rent
> and remember to smile. Even though you have five years of IT project
> experience your good at what you do you can not get work. I can work
> at a fast food restaurant with my IT certifications and experience.
>
> The whole IT industry is a big scam all the recruiters and top guys
> know each other and if they don't like you. They will blacklist you.
> You will NEVER get a job. You will get NOTHING. Who are they? They are
> the rich and the power elite. They are not just one race they are
> every race and the rest of the people are just commodities like
> cattle. Sigh I was given life. Looking forward to death.
>
> On 12 Jan 2004 17:15:27 -0800, (Joe) wrote:
>
> >with all these IT pros out of work,it makes sence to stick with
> >repairs,serving practial marketplace needs
> >
> >
> >Monday, January 12, 2004
> >False Recovery -- Economic Commentary by Stephen Roach Morgan Stanley
> >Global Economic Forum ^The Great American Job Machine has long powered
> >the US business cycle. It drives the income growth that fuels personal
> >consumption. That internally generated fuel is all but absent in the
> >current upturn. The US economy is mired in a jobless recovery the
> >likes of which it has never seen. This has profound implications for
> >the economic outlook, the political climate, trade policies, and the
> >global business cycle.
> >
> >Contrary to popular spin, the US labor market is not on the mend. In
> >the final five months of 2003, a total of only 278,000 new jobs were
> >added by nonfarm businesses - a gain that is easily matched in a
> >single month of a typical hiring-led recovery. Moreover, literally all
> >of the job growth that has occurred over this period has been
> >concentrated in three industry segments - temporary staffing,
> >education, and healthcare - which collectively added 286,000 positions
> >in the final five months of last year. The "animal spirits" of a
> >broad-based hiring-led revival by US businesses are all but absent.
> >Jobs may be rising in America's low-cost contingent workforce (temps)
> >and in high-cost-areas that are shielded from international
> >competition (health and education), but positions continue to be
> >eliminated in manufacturing, retail trade, and financial and
> >information services.
> >
> >The modern-day US economy has never been through anything like this.
> >Fully 25 months into this so-called economic recovery, private-sector
> >jobs are still about 1% below levels prevailing at the official trough
> >of the last recession in November 2001; at this juncture in the
> >typical recovery, jobs are normally up about 6%. Had Corporate America
> >held to the hiring trajectory of the typical cycle, fully 7.7 million
> >more American workers would be employed today. Moreover, the current
> >hiring shortfall far outstrips that which was evident in America's
> >only other jobless recovery - the upturn following the recession of
> >1990-91. In that instance, it took about 12 months for the job machine
> >to kick back into gear. By our calculations, the current job profile
> >in the private economy is now 2.4 million workers below the trajectory
> >of the jobless recovery a decade ago.
> >
> >
> >The "imported productivity" provided by offshoring has become
> >especially evident in IT-enabled services - where the knowledge-based
> >output of a remote low-wage white-collar workforce now has real-time,
> >e-based connectivity to production platforms in the developed world.
> >One of the clearest examples of this is a significant shortfall of job
> >creation in America's IT and information services industry. In the
> >upturn of the early 1990s, employment in this industry had increased
> >nearly 4% by the 25th month of that recovery; by contrast, in the
> >current cycle, such jobs are down over 1% - even though the US economy
> >is far more IT-intensive today than it was back then. At the same
> >time, knowledge professionals' headcount in India's IT sector has
> >risen from 50,000 in 1990-91 to an estimated 625,000 workers in
> >2002-03.
> >
> >I don't think these trends are a coincidence. More likely than not,
> >they are the flip sides of the same coin - a shift of
> >comparable-quality labor input from the high-wage US services sector
> >to the low-wage Indian services sector. And, of course, this trend is
> >only the tip of a much bigger iceberg, as offshoring now spreads up
> >the value chain to include professions such as engineering, design,
> >and accounting, as well as lawyers, actuaries, doctors, and financial
> >analysts. Long dubbed the "nontradables" sector, the IT-enabled
> >globalization of services is now in the process of transforming this
> >vast sector into yet another tradable segment of the US economy -
> >posing a formidable challenge to the once unstoppable Great American
> >Job Machine.
>

derek bunting

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:50:30 +1100, "derek bunting"
<> wrote:

>Just like to say two things, firstly `things are neither good nor bad, tis
>thinking makes them so-------William Shakespeare. Secondly sometimes my
>stomach hurts when I laugh !
>
Wow you read shakesspeare! I have never read that and I watch Jerry
Springer regularly too. ¬_¬

Rrrvvv

Dear Rrrvvvv:

May I suggest Zoloft and a change of careers. No ****. You're pretty
stressed out from where I'm sitting and I can feel you on that.
Life's a bitch some time. Well maybe most of the time............. But cheer
up, you could be in Hell! (just food for thought)
--
David Bland

"Rrrvvv" <> wrote in message
news:.. .
> I just want to say a few things here. First of all I would like to say
> I am Indian by birth. I was brought to the states with my parents when
> I was eight. I grew up here and was educated with your kids some of
> them are quite nice actually. My current status is U.S. citizen. My
> field of work is you guessed it computers not that I am getting any
> work anymore. All I want to say is I am sorry you are loosing your
> jobs don't bitch about it do something about it. If you can do the job
> and someone gives it to me I will take it I have to do that or suffer
> like I am suffering now.
>
> I just wish you guys would stop bitching "He also predicted the US
> would be a 2nd or 3rd world country in twenty years. I think he's
> wrong about that. I think it will take about 40 years." The US is
> already a third world country even worse then a third world country in
> some ways. I am in a prison of sorts whatever I make goes in to rent
> credit cards to help pay utilities. I live in a ****ing box (parent's
> apartment) with no medical insurance what so ever. If I go apply for
> work I am treated like a pariah. Yes people pay me lower wages take
> every chance they can to be rude to me and I get treated like crap. I
> can't go to India because I don't fit there anymore I can't function
> here people treat me like ****.. I can't even ****ing kill myself
> (religious thing).
>
> You see Slavery has not been abolished it has evolved. So you want a
> decent home so you can raise a family? Pay us a million dollars . oh
> you don't have it **** you go work for minimum wage and pay me rent
> and remember to smile. Even though you have five years of IT project
> experience your good at what you do you can not get work. I can work
> at a fast food restaurant with my IT certifications and experience.
>
> The whole IT industry is a big scam all the recruiters and top guys
> know each other and if they don't like you. They will blacklist you.
> You will NEVER get a job. You will get NOTHING. Who are they? They are
> the rich and the power elite. They are not just one race they are
> every race and the rest of the people are just commodities like
> cattle. Sigh I was given life. Looking forward to death.
>
> On 12 Jan 2004 17:15:27 -0800, (Joe) wrote:
>
> >with all these IT pros out of work,it makes sence to stick with
> >repairs,serving practial marketplace needs
> >
> >
> >Monday, January 12, 2004
> >False Recovery -- Economic Commentary by Stephen Roach Morgan Stanley
> >Global Economic Forum ^The Great American Job Machine has long powered
> >the US business cycle. It drives the income growth that fuels personal
> >consumption. That internally generated fuel is all but absent in the
> >current upturn. The US economy is mired in a jobless recovery the
> >likes of which it has never seen. This has profound implications for
> >the economic outlook, the political climate, trade policies, and the
> >global business cycle.
> >
> >Contrary to popular spin, the US labor market is not on the mend. In
> >the final five months of 2003, a total of only 278,000 new jobs were
> >added by nonfarm businesses - a gain that is easily matched in a
> >single month of a typical hiring-led recovery. Moreover, literally all
> >of the job growth that has occurred over this period has been
> >concentrated in three industry segments - temporary staffing,
> >education, and healthcare - which collectively added 286,000 positions
> >in the final five months of last year. The "animal spirits" of a
> >broad-based hiring-led revival by US businesses are all but absent.
> >Jobs may be rising in America's low-cost contingent workforce (temps)
> >and in high-cost-areas that are shielded from international
> >competition (health and education), but positions continue to be
> >eliminated in manufacturing, retail trade, and financial and
> >information services.
> >
> >The modern-day US economy has never been through anything like this.
> >Fully 25 months into this so-called economic recovery, private-sector
> >jobs are still about 1% below levels prevailing at the official trough
> >of the last recession in November 2001; at this juncture in the
> >typical recovery, jobs are normally up about 6%. Had Corporate America
> >held to the hiring trajectory of the typical cycle, fully 7.7 million
> >more American workers would be employed today. Moreover, the current
> >hiring shortfall far outstrips that which was evident in America's
> >only other jobless recovery - the upturn following the recession of
> >1990-91. In that instance, it took about 12 months for the job machine
> >to kick back into gear. By our calculations, the current job profile
> >in the private economy is now 2.4 million workers below the trajectory
> >of the jobless recovery a decade ago.
> >
> >
> >The "imported productivity" provided by offshoring has become
> >especially evident in IT-enabled services - where the knowledge-based
> >output of a remote low-wage white-collar workforce now has real-time,
> >e-based connectivity to production platforms in the developed world.
> >One of the clearest examples of this is a significant shortfall of job
> >creation in America's IT and information services industry. In the
> >upturn of the early 1990s, employment in this industry had increased
> >nearly 4% by the 25th month of that recovery; by contrast, in the
> >current cycle, such jobs are down over 1% - even though the US economy
> >is far more IT-intensive today than it was back then. At the same
> >time, knowledge professionals' headcount in India's IT sector has
> >risen from 50,000 in 1990-91 to an estimated 625,000 workers in
> >2002-03.
> >
> >I don't think these trends are a coincidence. More likely than not,
> >they are the flip sides of the same coin - a shift of
> >comparable-quality labor input from the high-wage US services sector
> >to the low-wage Indian services sector. And, of course, this trend is
> >only the tip of a much bigger iceberg, as offshoring now spreads up
> >the value chain to include professions such as engineering, design,
> >and accounting, as well as lawyers, actuaries, doctors, and financial
> >analysts. Long dubbed the "nontradables" sector, the IT-enabled
> >globalization of services is now in the process of transforming this
> >vast sector into yet another tradable segment of the US economy -
> >posing a formidable challenge to the once unstoppable Great American
> >Job Machine.
>

David BlandIII

It is true I am stressed out. If I can't find work I will have to do
some janitorish job or something like that. Funny thing I am stressed
out but I am no longer sad. I am in Hell but for nothing I did
knowingly. I am done with this. Time to move on.
Cheers
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 01:25:19 GMT, "David BlandIII"
<> wrote:

>Dear Rrrvvvv:
>
>May I suggest Zoloft and a change of careers. No ****. You're pretty
>stressed out from where I'm sitting and I can feel you on that.
>Life's a bitch some time. Well maybe most of the time............. But cheer
>up, you could be in Hell! (just food for thought)
>--
>David Bland
>
>"Rrrvvv" <> wrote in message
>news:. ..
>> I just want to say a few things here. First of all I would like to say
>> I am Indian by birth. I was brought to the states with my parents when
>> I was eight. I grew up here and was educated with your kids some of
>> them are quite nice actually. My current status is U.S. citizen. My
>> field of work is you guessed it computers not that I am getting any
>> work anymore. All I want to say is I am sorry you are loosing your
>> jobs don't bitch about it do something about it. If you can do the job
>> and someone gives it to me I will take it I have to do that or suffer
>> like I am suffering now.
>>
>> I just wish you guys would stop bitching "He also predicted the US
>> would be a 2nd or 3rd world country in twenty years. I think he's
>> wrong about that. I think it will take about 40 years." The US is
>> already a third world country even worse then a third world country in
>> some ways. I am in a prison of sorts whatever I make goes in to rent
>> credit cards to help pay utilities. I live in a ****ing box (parent's
>> apartment) with no medical insurance what so ever. If I go apply for
>> work I am treated like a pariah. Yes people pay me lower wages take
>> every chance they can to be rude to me and I get treated like crap. I
>> can't go to India because I don't fit there anymore I can't function
>> here people treat me like ****.. I can't even ****ing kill myself
>> (religious thing).
>>
>> You see Slavery has not been abolished it has evolved. So you want a
>> decent home so you can raise a family? Pay us a million dollars . oh
>> you don't have it **** you go work for minimum wage and pay me rent
>> and remember to smile. Even though you have five years of IT project
>> experience your good at what you do you can not get work. I can work
>> at a fast food restaurant with my IT certifications and experience.
>>
>> The whole IT industry is a big scam all the recruiters and top guys
>> know each other and if they don't like you. They will blacklist you.
>> You will NEVER get a job. You will get NOTHING. Who are they? They are
>> the rich and the power elite. They are not just one race they are
>> every race and the rest of the people are just commodities like
>> cattle. Sigh I was given life. Looking forward to death.
>>
>> On 12 Jan 2004 17:15:27 -0800, (Joe) wrote:
>>
>> >with all these IT pros out of work,it makes sence to stick with
>> >repairs,serving practial marketplace needs
>> >
>> >
>> >Monday, January 12, 2004
>> >False Recovery -- Economic Commentary by Stephen Roach Morgan Stanley
>> >Global Economic Forum ^The Great American Job Machine has long powered
>> >the US business cycle. It drives the income growth that fuels personal
>> >consumption. That internally generated fuel is all but absent in the
>> >current upturn. The US economy is mired in a jobless recovery the
>> >likes of which it has never seen. This has profound implications for
>> >the economic outlook, the political climate, trade policies, and the
>> >global business cycle.
>> >
>> >Contrary to popular spin, the US labor market is not on the mend. In
>> >the final five months of 2003, a total of only 278,000 new jobs were
>> >added by nonfarm businesses - a gain that is easily matched in a
>> >single month of a typical hiring-led recovery. Moreover, literally all
>> >of the job growth that has occurred over this period has been
>> >concentrated in three industry segments - temporary staffing,
>> >education, and healthcare - which collectively added 286,000 positions
>> >in the final five months of last year. The "animal spirits" of a
>> >broad-based hiring-led revival by US businesses are all but absent.
>> >Jobs may be rising in America's low-cost contingent workforce (temps)
>> >and in high-cost-areas that are shielded from international
>> >competition (health and education), but positions continue to be
>> >eliminated in manufacturing, retail trade, and financial and
>> >information services.
>> >
>> >The modern-day US economy has never been through anything like this.
>> >Fully 25 months into this so-called economic recovery, private-sector
>> >jobs are still about 1% below levels prevailing at the official trough
>> >of the last recession in November 2001; at this juncture in the
>> >typical recovery, jobs are normally up about 6%. Had Corporate America
>> >held to the hiring trajectory of the typical cycle, fully 7.7 million
>> >more American workers would be employed today. Moreover, the current
>> >hiring shortfall far outstrips that which was evident in America's
>> >only other jobless recovery - the upturn following the recession of
>> >1990-91. In that instance, it took about 12 months for the job machine
>> >to kick back into gear. By our calculations, the current job profile
>> >in the private economy is now 2.4 million workers below the trajectory
>> >of the jobless recovery a decade ago.
>> >
>> >
>> >The "imported productivity" provided by offshoring has become
>> >especially evident in IT-enabled services - where the knowledge-based
>> >output of a remote low-wage white-collar workforce now has real-time,
>> >e-based connectivity to production platforms in the developed world.
>> >One of the clearest examples of this is a significant shortfall of job
>> >creation in America's IT and information services industry. In the
>> >upturn of the early 1990s, employment in this industry had increased
>> >nearly 4% by the 25th month of that recovery; by contrast, in the
>> >current cycle, such jobs are down over 1% - even though the US economy
>> >is far more IT-intensive today than it was back then. At the same
>> >time, knowledge professionals' headcount in India's IT sector has
>> >risen from 50,000 in 1990-91 to an estimated 625,000 workers in
>> >2002-03.
>> >
>> >I don't think these trends are a coincidence. More likely than not,
>> >they are the flip sides of the same coin - a shift of
>> >comparable-quality labor input from the high-wage US services sector
>> >to the low-wage Indian services sector. And, of course, this trend is
>> >only the tip of a much bigger iceberg, as offshoring now spreads up
>> >the value chain to include professions such as engineering, design,
>> >and accounting, as well as lawyers, actuaries, doctors, and financial
>> >analysts. Long dubbed the "nontradables" sector, the IT-enabled
>> >globalization of services is now in the process of transforming this
>> >vast sector into yet another tradable segment of the US economy -
>> >posing a formidable challenge to the once unstoppable Great American
>> >Job Machine.
>>
>
>

Rrrvvv