Clint Kennedy: coward or loser?

On 8/18/2003 10:34 PM I posted the following:
"...Some employers prefer certs, others degrees, others both, what is never
missing is experience.
I certainly don't feel like getting involved in yet another debate of
degrees vs. certs, which is indeed a moot issue.
I believe the educational system is going towards integration, synergy, call
it what you would.
Many college classes are built on cert programs e.g. A+ is a model for many
semester-long troubleshooting classes and if you have the cert. it will
replace them towards your degree.
The same thing is true for Network+ and the MOS certification for Excel
(replaces Advanced Spreadsheet) and Access (replaces Database Management),
and this is just the beginning...

On 8/20/2003 11:00 AM Clint Kennedy posted this unprovoked attack:
"I have a degree in Computer Science...For those of you reading this thread,
do not listen to Pikoro, he is broken..."

On 8/21/2003 2:15 PM broken Pikoro posted proof of his statements
"...here is the list you are so anxious to see and that will show to anybody
with a clear mind how true it is that higher education and certifications
are integrating.
But idiots like you just don't surrender to evidence and admit they were
wrong, like mad dogs without teeth you will continue to howl to the moon.
Nobody listens to you but yourselves, and nobody cares about your incoherent
and erratic utterances.
We are talking about State-approved College classes...
CET 2253 Applied Operating Systems, can be replaced by A+ OS cert.
CET 2489C Networking technology, replaced by Network+.
CGS 2263 Local area networking, replaced by Certified Novell Administrator.
CET 2178C Microcomputer troubleshooting, replaced by A+ hardware.
CGS 1510 Electronic spreadsheet, replaced by MOS (ex MOUS).
CGS 1540C Database management, replaced by MOS.
OST 2764 Word processing applications, replaced by MOS.
The list is by no means exhaustive, I'm sure that there are others, this is
just the beginning of a path towards synergy..."

On 8/24/2003 Pikoro posted additional explanations and proof:
"You are right here, dimwits, you couldn't stand an intellectual challenge
with me, and I'll tell you exactly why.
I am writing this post for the benefit of my colleagues in this
certification newsgroup, not obviously for you, because somebody who refuses
to acknowledge proof is a hopeless lunatic.
Supposing I were working on an associate's certification degree, would that
mean the end of the echelon?
NO, it would mean an automatic transfer to a 4-years institution, then to a
Bachelor, Master or PhD. Thus, in essence I would be working on an advanced
degree using the 2-years program as a launchpad.
Your crappy suggestion to go directly into a 4-years program is wrong simply
because for a certified tech. it is easier to get started on a 4-years
program by substituting his acquired certs. for classes in a community
college (re. my previous list).
Conversely, if I approved certain classes in a community college, I would
have all the training required to pass the certification tests, since the
classes are strictly based on the certs. curricula.
Therefore, at the end of my career I would have an advanced degree +
certifications, if you add experience to the mix then you have a proven
formula to land a job in IT.
Thousands of ads PROVE you wrong, anybody knows that degrees + certs. is the
best way to go and if you don't then you would be the only hiring manager in
the world to stand apart from this proven path...
Now, for my colleagues that are still in doubt about this matter I will add
further proof to my already proven statements.
The following State-approved classes are offered in one of the top ten
community colleges in the nation and imply an AUTOMATIC transfer to
technical universities, who even offer scholarships to students that pass
them.
Microsoft MCSE Associate in Science Major Code 21931
Microsoft MCSE Associate in Applied Science Major Code A019
Microsoft MCSE Technical Certificate Major Code 62384
Networking-Novell CNE Associate of Science Major Code 21932
Networking-Novell CNE Associate of Applied Science Major Code A020
Novell CNE Technical Certificate Major Code 62383
Cisco CCNP Program Associate in Science Major Code 21933
Networking-Cisco CCNA Technical Certificate Major Code 62387
Others are in the pipeline.
This *IS* the real world, miserable clown, not your hocus-pocus of
experience-based points.
It is true that you cannot stand an intellectual challenge with me simply
because I can PROVE you wrong and you cannot come with an ounce of proof to
back your statements.
This is simple: I say that certifications are being integrated into higher
education, you say no.
I submit proof "ad nauseam", you submit meaningless lunatic rants like "I
think it's neat how this genius conveniently skips over all of the valid
points we make and only responds to the most miniscule (shouldn't it be
'minuscule', Brainiac?) facets of our arguments, encapsulated in a peon
temper-tantrum cursory because he isn't getting his way and can't make a
logical case against our points."
What is your logic? Where are your arguments? Bring 'em on!
I solemnly promise that if you can prove only one flaw in my logic and
arguments I will admit that you have proved me wrong. This is the
intellectual challenge you will never be up to, bitch.
The only proof you have submitted so far is Mme. Butterfly giggling like a
schoolgirl at your ridiculous gibberish, because she hopes that somehow she
will now be able to bash Pikoro.
The game is over, freak, I know that you don't have balls enough to admit
that you have been proved wrong, you could at least have the minimal decency
to shut up."

For the sake of clarity I have excerpted the fundamentals of this unilateral
debate where one side proves its points and the other counters with insults
and rants.
Please refrain from posting irrelevant comments, remarks, etc. as they will
be ignored; don't be fooled by those who deliberately want to spam this
thread to cover up their inability to answer.
This is an intellectual challenge, not a poll, the only thing that matters
is proof.
I have submitted proof since the beginning and have been waiting...
Since my time is limited, Clint Kennedy has 48 hrs. to submit proof of his
positions or be considered either a coward or a loser.

Pikoro

The only loser around this group is a punk called Pikoro. If it wasn't so
amusing reading the ramblings of his warped mind I would just block any
messages to save bandwidth.

Pikoro - you arrived here and have solidly poured scorn on anyone who has a
differing opinion to your own. A word to the wise ... there are guys in
here who know more about computers than you will ever know, so sit back and
actually TRY to learn from their posts - I know that I have learned heaps
from guys like Ghost, Tom, Andy and a few others.

RussS

> Since my time is limited, Clint Kennedy has 48 hrs. to submit proof of his
> positions or be considered either a coward or a loser.

Yes, I know highschool can be a very busy time. Reconsider your stentence:
I would be considered a coward or loser by *you*. I would be considered a
coward or loser by a highschool know it all that still lives with mommy.
You have the whole world figured out from your perspective in highschool.
This is a waste of *my* time (some of us that have jobs in the real world),
but I'll try responding one last time to see if you might be able to
understand what we've been saying to you. I don't know why you keep coming
back to this, obviously putting a lot of thought into it as if you're going
to get some form of respect. It's quite scary, really. I couldn't care
less if anyone else thinks I'm right or wrong, I know what my opinions are
and couldn't care less if anyone else (including a highschool child) agrees.
What I *do* have a problem with is the fact that you've missed the point
here. If anything, you might at LEAST be able to understand our point,
because you clearly don't. Every post you've written in response does not
even hint at an understanding of our point. By the way, our points are
mutually exclusive from yours, most of the time, so this isn't a matter of
disproving what you've said ... except in one case.

1. What you are trying to prove has not been clearly defined.

You never stated what you initially meant to prove. The only thing that
you've proven is that associate degrees, technical universities, or
vocational schools accept certifications for "college" credit. No one has
ever argued this point with you. This is a well known fact that any idiot
knows. You're acting like your proving the sky is blue. Harder to come by,
even some accredited universities with 4 year programs (which I consider a
different flavor of "college") allow you to apply advanced certifications
towards an *elective*, but I've yet to see any accredited 4 year
university's COMPUTER SCIENCE program that will drop relational database
management systems design and theory for a class in Microsoft Access, as I
believe you pointed out in one of your posts. You have to be joking. Have
you taken a theory based RDBMS class? Do you even KNOW what you're talking
about? Of course you haven't, and of course you don't, you are in
highschool. Is this bad or an insult? Of course not, we were all in
highschool at some point. It simply means you haven't been exposed to what
you're professing as truth. Well, I have, and I know it couldn't even begin
to compare to taking a course in Microsoft Access. Now, it is quite
probable that technical schools or associate degree plans have a class they
call database systems in which they profess current implementations rather
than theory. These courses might teach Oracle, SQL in general, Access,
whatever. Again, this is a case of calling multiple animals the same name.
Also, are you discussing BCIS or BSCS? Be specific. Several things you've
said would probably apply to a degree in BCIS or information systems. If I
can remember, I posted in response to wblane's post regarding computer
science, in particular. Furthermore, you self-declared your statements as
proof, then had the nerve to say you've disproved what I've said. You
haven't disproved anything except what you've invented in your head. It's
clear to me that you don't READ considering you wrote this: "Thousands of
ads PROVE you wrong, anybody knows that degrees + certs. is the best way to
go and if you don't then you would be the only hiring manager in the world
to stand apart from this proven path." If you would take the time to READ
my posts, you would find the post which I said that I AGREE with the fact
that having both degrees and certificaitons is the way to go. Again,
another point which I already agree with, I've never argued against, yet you
are trying to disprove my statements with the antithesis of what I've
already agreed with. Have you ever considered using common sense? I went
on to say in the post that not only do I support both degrees and
certifications, but I have obtained BOTH and continue to obtain more. Why
would I do this if I didn't agree? This was never the point I was arguing,
yet you've seem to gone ballistic about it, ignoring everything else (this
is a sign of a young mind that hasn't learned patience, maturity, and
open-mindedness in education ... a.k.a. know it all that only cares who is
right and who is wrong for ego purposes.) I know you aren't getting into a
personal stature battle with me. We can compare walls and years of
experience to see who is more fit to qualify a remark. It seems as if that
is all you are concerned with, proving you are right and some stranger you
don't even know is wrong. That is quite sad. You are not going to make it
very long in the industry with that kind of attitude. Trust me, I've seen
several people with that kind of attitude come, and then GO (can you guess
why?).

The only point that I have ever made, which you CANNOT disprove because it
is my opinion, is that as a hiring manager *I* (not Pikoro or anyone else on
this planet) give a different weight to a 4 year accredited computer science
degree than I do to certifications or techinical schools by themselves,
simply because the two are entirely different animals. I could tell you
that I've been in the industry longer than you've had pubes, and know this
as a general truth among corporations which could lead to a more
industry-wide opinion (the basis of my original statements), but that
wouldn't be good enough for you since you don't consider experience to have
any weight. Therefore, to appease your comeback, I will state that there is
a *high probability*other corporations do as well, especially in the era of
braindumps and paper MCSEs, etc.. You seem to know everything about the
industry by reading job ads (*sigh*), so start counting how many ask for
Bachelor's in COMPUTER SCIENCE. That is NOT a BCIS degree or an associate's
degree or a technical school degree. Now, let me clear a few statements up
since you've put words in my mouth. Do I want to see both degrees and certs
on a resume? Absolutely! Have I already stated this fact? YES, I have
(which you glossed over). Do I have both on my resume? Yes, I do. Now, is
this to say cets don't have weight? Of course not ... no one has said that
to you a single time. What you've done is taken the point we are arguing
and either accidentally misconstrued it (which is forgiveable, especially if
we didn't express our point clearly enough, which would be our on fault ...
some of us don't have the time you have to put 20 mins of thought into a
post), or simply reinvented our argument, then spent tons of time
"disproving" your own conception of our point! It seems like you think our
point is that you can't get a job without a 4 year degree. We've NEVER said
that. Hell, if I was hiring for a PC Tech or a network tech, the only thing
I'd care to see is experience! If they had certs to go wth it, great!
However, there are TONS of jobs out there that are particular to computer
science which none of the classes you listed even begin to touch on. The
point, and the ONLY point, is that equating those types of classes to a 4
year accredited computer science degree is NOT CORRECT. That's it. That's
all we've ever said, and if it hasn't been clear before, IT IS NOW. If you
would have calmly asked us to elaborate we could have, but that's now how
you work. I tell ya what, go to Berkley, UT, Northwestern, A&M, any well
known accredited comp sci program and tell them you want credit for all of
your certifications and that you'd like to apply your Access class towards
RDBMS and you feel like you've already obtained an equal education from the
certifications and techincal schools. As they laugh you out the door, you
might remember us.

Don't you think we all at some point at least CONSIDERED the same ideas you
are stating now? All of us were in highschool at one point ... and possibly
thought the same way you do. We then experienced the real world and
learned, on some occassions, conflicting truths. If you don't want to at
least consider what we are saying, that is completely your right. Simply
read the post, say you don't agree, and move on. Trying to disprove
something you don't agree with and making comments about who is smarter is
just ridiculous. What is next? "My dad can beat up your dad." I mean,
grow up. I also find it funny you are the biggest name caller among all of
us, yet say *OUR* posts are full of insults and rants? In the real world,
you will ALWAYS come into contact with people that no matter what you do or
say will not agree with you. Wasting your energy with proofs, calling
people names, calling them cowards trying to get them to admit they are
wrong ... is a waste of your time, and won't fly in the real world. Learn
from someone older than you that's been around, it isn't worth the energy.
Just agree to disagree and move forward. Again, the only thing I've
disagreed with is equating those types of courses to the types of courses
found in a 4 year accredited univerity bachelor of science in computer
science degree. If you want to bitch and moan or disprove anything,
disprove THAT POINT as a generality, not one obscure college you can find in
the middle of nowhere. I want to see it as a de facto. Anything else and
you're blowing smoke.

On another note, it isn't wise to hardly know someone and assume you are
smarter or know more. Never underestimate anyone out there. If you'd like
to have an intellectual challenge to prove you are right, I suggest this:
finish your certifications. Go to whatever techincal school or associates
program you want. When you think you know everything and that what you know
compares to computer science, I'd be more than willing to sit down to an
algorithmic complexity or design test, discrete mathematics, finite automata
(or even nfas), data structures, relational database algorithms and theory,
low-level architecure and organization (no, not the pussy A+ material),
languages design, microprocessor design (with VHDL simulations, what the
hell), simulation theory, ... anything you'd like that relates to computer
science. I guarantee you I'd have your ass waxed before you got your name
on the page. Oh, wait, if I were you I would've ended this with "your name
on the page, pussy."

If you want clarifications of what my OPINION is, and can discuss things in
a grown-up fashion, I'd be more than happy to continue this thread.
However, if you are inistant on disproving something you cannot disprove,
you will be ignored by me (and probably everyone else) ... while we watch
you run around in circles inventing arguments to disprove based on false
premise. I also will not respond to any more "challenges." You seem to be
the type that has to get in the last word. I feel like I've stated my case
here, so you can get in whatever last word you want ... I'll most likely
ignore it.

Although a little warped, you seem to have a bright mind for your age, don't
waste it making problems for yourself! There are better ways to have a
discussion. All in all, you need to grow up.

Clint Kennedy
BSCS (CSAB/CSAC), MCP, A+

Clint Kennedy

Russ,

After I read your post I was curious how long this guy has been around and
whether or not he's ever posted a single post that has any merit. While I
was scanning I found some funny quotes:

On 8/1/03 Pikoro Said:
"You need to take what you need and discard what you don't like.
You want "useful information". Did you even ask a question?
Be smart, nobody needs a ****ing preacher."

Hmm, apparently he does not take his own advice.

"There are people in the NGs whose personal attitudes I do not share,
nonetheless I admire the technical depth of their answers."

Right. If you don't agree with his opinion, you are automatically a "clown"
a "coward" a "loser" an "imbecile," etc.. Again, hilarious.

8/8/03
"Your brain is so fried you don't realize that it is YOU who started
bitching
out, and if you can't stand an answer and need to get into fisticuffs, it
is YOU who is giving a pathetical show of loss of composure and lack of
acumen."

Hmm, pointing out in others what he despises in himself.

8/9/03
"You are right here, please observe that I am no longer answering personal
posts. These guys have no arguments, no proof and no brain, that is why
they have
to shield themselves with insults."

So in other words, "Insult Insult Insult Insult Insult, that is why they
have to shield themselves with insults."

Pikoro, you seem to be #1 about everything you bitch about, congratulations.



"RussS" <> wrote in message
news:uqz2b.127238$...
> The only loser around this group is a punk called Pikoro. If it wasn't so
> amusing reading the ramblings of his warped mind I would just block any
> messages to save bandwidth.
>
> Pikoro - you arrived here and have solidly poured scorn on anyone who has
a
> differing opinion to your own. A word to the wise ... there are guys in
> here who know more about computers than you will ever know, so sit back
and
> actually TRY to learn from their posts - I know that I have learned heaps
> from guys like Ghost, Tom, Andy and a few others.
>
>

Clint Kennedy

haha - and I'm a secret operative for the galazy council ....

Pikoro - I suggest you crawl back to where you came from and leave this
forum to the grown-ups ...

RussS

> You would be amazed at my age, knowledge and power, only I don't like to
> brag about it.

I highly doubt it. Funny, again you are the only one tooting your horn.

> You cannot help admitting my intelligence and yet say that I did not
define
> it clearly.

Admit your intelligence? All I said was that you seem bright. Several
insane people in this world are bright. This sentence shows your level of
logic, always based on false premise. This is the argument you just stated:

A. You have admitted my intelligence.
B. Those who have intelligence always define proofs clearly.
C. Therefore, I hae defined my proof clearly.

The major false premise is part B. If you can't see that, you are beyond
help. Further, part A is also a false premise. I never admitted your
intelligence, I said you seem bright. You at least have a decent
vocabulary, your logic is just broken.

> YES, I did, it is you who is not reading.

I clearly stated several times I support both and then you say I don't.
Once again, here is your broken argument:

A. I admit to reading Clint's posts. "YES, I did, it is you who is not
reading."
B. If I have read Clint's posts, and know how to read, I would have read
that he said he supports the combination of degrees and certifications.
C. I then claim Clint said he does NOT support the combination of degrees
and certifications, and offer up a broken proof to "prove" this.
D. Therefore, I have proven that although I admit to reading Clint's posts
that he supports both, I have also proven that after reading his posts, he
has posted that he doesn't.
E. Therefore, I am BROKEN.

False premise: D

All of the arguments that you repeatedly pat yourself on the back for are
all based on false premise. Yet, you are so proud of yourself. The only
thing that you've demolished is yourself.

> "This is simple: I say that certifications are being integrated into
higher
> education, you say no."
> You now say that you never said that, however, I will refresh your memory,
> bringing up your post that started it all:
> "I have a degree in Computer Science from a CSAB/CSAC (Computer Science
> Accrediting Board/ Computer Science Accrediting Commission) accredited
> school. ABET (Accrediting Board of Engineering and Technology) has taken
> over the accreditation of CS programs since I went to school. I have to
> agree with wblane here. For those of you reading this thread, do not
listen
> to Pikoro, he is broken."

You can obviously not read. Where in my paragraph do you read anything
about certifications not being integrated into higher education? I said I
agree with wblane's reference to a 4 year accredited university. I still
agree. I simply said you are broken. You are broken. I've already proven
that. You should consider basing your proofs on statements, not your own
warped state of implicitness.

> At least be honest, you DID say it, I rebutted this stupidity beyond doubt
> and now you have to deny you ever said it covering up your shame in a
> mile-long sheet of a post.

Yes, I did say it. Yes, you took it in the wrong context and invented your
own conception of my statements without asking for clarification. Yes, you
are stupid beyond doubt.

> "The only point that I have ever made, which you CANNOT disprove because
it
> is my opinion, is that as a hiring manager *I* (not Pikoro or anyone else
on
> this planet) give a different weight to a 4 year accredited computer
science
> degree than I do to certifications or techinical schools by themselves,
> simply because the two are entirely different animals."
> Bravo, Madame! For once you are right, only I still have to find out who
> disputed that.

Thank you for admitting I'm right.

> You say that I am the biggest name-caller, you still have to prove when I
> called anybody names without having been attacked first.

So if a first grader came up to you and called you an asshole, you would go
off on them? BROKEN.

> You have scarcely been in this newsgroup for 3 weeks and yet you dared
> attack me without having the faintest idea who I am.

I know you, you're broken.

> YOU are the impudent brat, if you were more of a man you would simply
> apologize instead of clumsily trying to lecture me.

Apologize for your broken interpretations? No thanks.

It's fun to stoop down to your level, if only to put you in your broken
place. For someone that keeps spouting out what you claim to be "proofs",
you should learn what a logical argument is, because almost every proof
you've offered has been based on false premise.

Your ability to prove yourself broken (my initial statement) is award
winning, and I applaud you.

- c

>
> "Clint Kennedy" <> wrote in message
> news:g1M2b.20072$cj1.14031@fed1read06...
>
>

Clint Kennedy

GET A ROOM GUYS.
Who of you three can show the maturity,and respect for others in the
group to stop posting to this thread.

Bret

Russ,

Hey now, it's my daily chuckle as well.

"RussS" <> wrote in message
news:yka3b.129245$...
> Awww Bret - y'all want to break up my daily chuckle?
>
>

Clint Kennedy

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:44:08 -0700, "Clint Kennedy"
<> wrote:

>Russ,
>
>Hey now, it's my daily chuckle as well.
>
>"RussS" <> wrote in message
>news:yka3b.129245$.. .
>> Awww Bret - y'all want to break up my daily chuckle?
>

You don't want to frighten the newbies away do you

Bret

Bret - not in the slightest. Actually I do a little tutoring and have a lot
of time for newbies who are prepared to knuckle down and learn their chosen
subject.

RussS