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CPU Question

 
 
Ghost
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      07-16-2003
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Navin R. Johnson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> This is getting weird. Today, I went on a service call at an insurance
> agency that had three of my AMD boxes and three previously installed
> IntelDells. Their A/C was out all day and two of the Dells screens went
> blank within 5 minutes of each other - both wouldn't POST. By the time I
> got there the A/C was running again but the Dells were still dead. I did
> the usual and pulled all the cards/drives, reseated and still no POST. I
> then thought it would be a good idea to swap some parts between the two
> dead machimes. First I went for the RAM and still no POST. Next I pulled
> the CPU's, which were P4-2.4Gigs, and noticed something strange on both
> CPUs. There was a tiny black mark between the last two letters of the
> word MALAY that's stamped on the chips. I got out my magnifying glass
> and lo and behold the marks really looked like tiny black craters - not
> a good sign. I talked the customer into letting me look at the CPU in
> the third, still running, Dell system. It was also a P4-2.4Gig chip and
> looked normal - at least as normal as I could tell. I don't build a lot
> of Intel boxes so I wasn't sure if that black spot was on all P-4's.
> Long story short, I took the 'good' P4 CPU and tried it in both dead
> systems and each one ran POST fine. Oh, and BTW, my three AthlonXP 2400+
> boxes never burped through the whole thing.
>
> The customer told me that the office temp was well over 95 degrees
> before the A/C was fixed. After my diagnosis of two bad P4s he called
> Dell - the systems were still under extended warranty. We both had to
> fight with the Dell tekkie to finally get him to agree to send us two
> new CPUs - we didn't mention the heat, though.
>
> This goes totally against the 'AMD runs hot' argument. Maybe the Dells
> just didn't have enough air flow in their crappy cases and my AMDs did.
> I have no idea. All I know is that I'm going back there tomorrow to
> install two P4 chips and I'm gonna bill them for $265 for my labor.
>
>


Yes, that is weird... especially since Intel P4s have some pretty strong
thermal protection built in to every chip. I would geuss either a factory
defect (since the saem spot in both bad chips was damaged), or is was over
voltage rather than heat related.

But, it is certainly possible the heat did them in. You would have to
examine them under an electron microscope to know for sure- and that aint
gonna happen.

I will keep my ears open for any more stories of bad P4 chips- maybe a bad
batch or something.
 
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Lee Parsons
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      07-16-2003
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:02:28 GMT, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Ghost) wrote:


>Methinks I hit a raw nerve... lol



No, you were simply insulting and received an appropriate reply.



>That fact that you responded so angrily indicates certain
>things to me though... lol


Stop trying to justify your assholic behavior, you're just digging
yourself in deeper.

>someone- then you will know the difference. A few still in here for all
>these years might remember a few cases where someone attracted my
>attentions.


Had to throw in a threat, too? Thank you for showing us all exactly
what kind of person you are.
 
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Nick
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      07-16-2003
> 3M video is the main reason I always use a wrist strap and static mat
> when I work on a system. Seeing is believing.


People actually pick on me some times for using a wrist
strap. It is good to know that someone else is out
there with the "better safe than sorry" attitude.

Cheers!
--

Nick
A+, MCP


 
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Ghost
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      07-17-2003
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Navin R. Johnson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:37:35 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Ghost) wrote:
>
> SNIP<<
>
> >Yes, that is weird... especially since Intel P4s have some pretty strong
> >thermal protection built in to every chip. I would geuss either a factory
> >defect (since the saem spot in both bad chips was damaged), or is was over
> >voltage rather than heat related.

>
> Is it possible that Dell had them set up wrong? With an AMD mobo you'd
> have to go into the BIOS and purposely set the voltages wrong. And, the
> fact that both CPUs went within ten minutes of each other while the room
> temp was over 95 leads me to believe it was the high temp. Shouldn't
> there be some overheat protection built into the mobo?


No, and in fact that is what is wrong with AMD. AMD chips have no thermal
protection built in, and rely on a 3rd party motherboard for thermal
protection- which usually does not protect very well.

>
> >But, it is certainly possible the heat did them in. You would have to
> >examine them under an electron microscope to know for sure- and that aint
> >gonna happen.

>
> Au contraire Casper. One of my oldest customers, Westinghouse, has a lab
> with an electron microscope. I've seen it in action before and it's way
> kewl. I'm sure Dell will want the bad chips returned but I may be able
> to snag one for a couple of days and take it to the lab to have a look.
> If that happens I'll get some pics and post them in one of the binaries
> groups.


Now THAT would be tres kewl!!!! I definitely want to see THOSE pics... lol
>


> Hey, I just thought of something. Back in the early eighties I went to a
> 3M seminar that dealt with ESD and saw a video of what static
> electricity could do to electronic components. It showed some before and
> after shots of a component that was exposed to ESD. In the before shots
> everything looked nice and smooth but the after shots looked like the
> surface of the moon with little craters all over. Maybe Dell's poor
> handling of the CPUs played a part in this problem since ESD almost
> never causes an immediate failure. It usually just weakens a component
> and creates hot spots which will shorten the life of the chip. BTW, that
> 3M video is the main reason I always use a wrist strap and static mat
> when I work on a system. Seeing is believing.


Yes, I have seen a few microscopic pics of ESD damage.. pretty impressive
stuff... I would love to see that video if you ever run across it...

>
> >I will keep my ears open for any more stories of bad P4 chips- maybe a bad
> >batch or something.

>
> You keep your ears open and I'll stick with AMD.
>


lol... will do!!! lol
 
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Ghost
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      07-17-2003
In article <xGkRa.3383$(E-Mail Removed)>, Nick
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > 3M video is the main reason I always use a wrist strap and static mat
> > when I work on a system. Seeing is believing.

>
> People actually pick on me some times for using a wrist
> strap. It is good to know that someone else is out
> there with the "better safe than sorry" attitude.
>
> Cheers!


Naw.. some of use are still out there.. We use straps whenever we handle
CPUs, mobos, or RAM... Sometimes, if the ESD is more prevelant, we use
the straps for everything.
 
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Andrew Tang
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      07-17-2003
Yes. 65 deg C is a little high. I would expect it to be 50-60. But then
I have been told that the Athlon does not have an on-die diode as
temperature sensor so that the number you see may be off depending on the
positioning of the temperature sensor and the compensation used.

"Terry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:sTqQa.420$(E-Mail Removed). ..
> I just got a Gigabyte 1394 AMD Motherboard with A Thermaltake Volcano11
> with a Athalon 2400 XP CPU .
> What is the cpu temperature on the board supposed to be .
> I get between 148 and 150 degrees if this is running to hot for this
> Processor can anyone offer any suggestions?
> The Thermaltake is recommened for the 2400
> What are some other peoples view on the subject?
> P.S. used Artic Silver for the thermal grease!
>



 
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Andrew Tang
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-17-2003
Yes. 65 deg C is a little high. I would expect it to be 50-60. But then
I have been told that the Athlon does not have an on-die diode as
temperature sensor so that the number you see may be off depending on the
positioning of the temperature sensor and the compensation used.

"Terry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:sTqQa.420$(E-Mail Removed). ..
> I just got a Gigabyte 1394 AMD Motherboard with A Thermaltake Volcano11
> with a Athalon 2400 XP CPU .
> What is the cpu temperature on the board supposed to be .
> I get between 148 and 150 degrees if this is running to hot for this
> Processor can anyone offer any suggestions?
> The Thermaltake is recommened for the 2400
> What are some other peoples view on the subject?
> P.S. used Artic Silver for the thermal grease!
>



 
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Barry Watzman
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-17-2003
You are not measuring the CPU die temperature, there is NO CPU chip that
runs anywhere near that cool (that is in the mid 90's).


Bret wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:25:17 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Ghost) wrote:
>
>
>>In article <sTqQa.420$(E-Mail Removed)>, Terry
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just got a Gigabyte 1394 AMD Motherboard with A Thermaltake Volcano11
>>>with a Athalon 2400 XP CPU .
>>>What is the cpu temperature on the board supposed to be .
>>>I get between 148 and 150 degrees if this is running to hot for this
>>>Processor can anyone offer any suggestions?
>>>The Thermaltake is recommened for the 2400
>>>What are some other peoples view on the subject?
>>>P.S. used Artic Silver for the thermal grease!

>>
>>
>>
>>The simple answer is you should not have gotten an AMD... they have
>>historically been very bad as far as heat goes...
>>
>>However, since you already have it, you have to cool it as much as you
>>can. A heatsink the size of Rhode Island comes to mind... lol
>>Seriously, get a very large heatsink, and several fans.
>>
>>Oh, and no arguments from the peanut gallery out there, OK??? AMD is a
>>very hot chip. If you lose a heatsink or cooling fans, you could easily
>>burn the chip and/or the mobo. This is not an opinion. It is absolute
>>fact. Any tech who has been around the block and verify this. Yes, AMD
>>is fast and AMD is cheap, but you get what you pay for. Heat is an issue
>>with AMDs.

>
>
> I'm running a 2400XP in a GA7VAXP ultra with a standard AMD supplied
> heatsink and fan, temperature varies beetween 36 and 38 degrees C.
> I don't consider it hot, what temp does your Intel run at?


 
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Bret
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      07-17-2003
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:17:52 GMT, Barry Watzman <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>You are not measuring the CPU die temperature, there is NO CPU chip that
>runs anywhere near that cool (that is in the mid 90's).


How do you want me to measure the temperature Barry?
I use the easytune utility provided by Gigabyte, currently reading 42
degrees C with seti command line client running.
 
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Andrew Tang
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-17-2003
Yes. 65 deg C is a little high. I would expect it to be 50-60. But then
I have been told that the Athlon does not have an on-die diode as
temperature sensor so that the number you see may be off depending on the
positioning of the temperature sensor and the compensation used.

"Terry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:sTqQa.420$(E-Mail Removed). ..
> I just got a Gigabyte 1394 AMD Motherboard with A Thermaltake Volcano11
> with a Athalon 2400 XP CPU .
> What is the cpu temperature on the board supposed to be .
> I get between 148 and 150 degrees if this is running to hot for this
> Processor can anyone offer any suggestions?
> The Thermaltake is recommened for the 2400
> What are some other peoples view on the subject?
> P.S. used Artic Silver for the thermal grease!
>



 
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