«

I have written an article concerning my thoughts on the subject of I.T.
bootcamps. It can be found at
http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to
respond on the CertGuard forum.

Click on the link, read the article, register as a member, write a
response and JOIN THE FIGHT AGAINST BRAINDUMPS, GUNMEN, AND CHEATERS.
Remember, it is your certifications; protect them.

--
Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
CIW Certified Instructor

http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom

>http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to
>respond on the CertGuard forum.

as you posted this here, i'll reply here.

to me the whole concept of boot camps simply add to worthlessness of
microsoft (and some other vendors) certs. The aim of a boot camp is
simply to get you through the exams, NOT to teach you the many, many
real world tools, techniques, technologies and understandings required
to fulfill ones job in IT. Whether that be as a systems analyst,
software engineer, network admin, database admin or a help desk dude,
these traits come only with experience.

So given that these boot comes should only be for experienced people
(as you put), I say what's the point? As experienced people should
already know much about the exam(s) topics, why would such people (or
their company) want to pay those sums of money when a few days/weeks
study and research will do?

imho, boot camps are just another way of churning out paper cert
holders with no real world experience. I do pretty much understand
where you're coming from in your article, especially the paragraph
about 'experience', but boot camps just add to the problem, nothing
more.

btw, I totally distinguish between boot camps and other training
courses. I would always recommend training courses for learning about
new products, technologies, methodologies, etc so long as the training
provider comes recommended. There are still out there, cowboy
providers who offer cheap, poorly constructed courses; so always do
research on a provider and remember, cheap does not always mean the
best value for money.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

A few points of conjecture if I may. One nice thing about experienced
Network Engineers who are in pursuit of an MCSE may be able to get their
office to let them go to a boot camp and not several weeks of training. They
can disconnect from the office and dig themselves in training, and while
they may know a lot already a boot camp often gives them new information and
Microsoft perspectives they would not normally use in their day-to-day
operations.

With that said a boot camp is not for everyone and with an average passing
rate (meaning they leave with an MCSE) is only about 30% or so it doesn't
guarantee you will get yours when you go. I am pro-boot camp for the right
candidate and do myself teach them from time to time. I don't give out
answers and I don't "teach the test" either, what I try to do is take you're
already gained knowledge and enhance it and prepare you for certification
testing. These boot camps are unbelievably fast paced and can be an
efficient way to gain certification. With my boot camps I provide the Sales
Associates with a list of prerequisite questions and I review all of the
candidates profiles before they take my camps. And if you somehow make it
into my camp with no "real world" experience you will not make it out
certified. Hell in some cases even having that knowledge doesn't mean you'll
make it. I've had a few students that didn't make it all the way through.
Usually though many of my students that don't pass all 7 exams during the
camp have only missed one or two and with that they are MCSE in a few weeks
past when they retake after some more self study and tutoring.

--
..rev
..
"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it"
~Aristotle
..
"Kline Sphere" <.@> wrote in message
news...
> >http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to
>>respond on the CertGuard forum.
>
> as you posted this here, i'll reply here.
>
> to me the whole concept of boot camps simply add to worthlessness of
> microsoft (and some other vendors) certs. The aim of a boot camp is
> simply to get you through the exams, NOT to teach you the many, many
> real world tools, techniques, technologies and understandings required
> to fulfill ones job in IT. Whether that be as a systems analyst,
> software engineer, network admin, database admin or a help desk dude,
> these traits come only with experience.
>
> So given that these boot comes should only be for experienced people
> (as you put), I say what's the point? As experienced people should
> already know much about the exam(s) topics, why would such people (or
> their company) want to pay those sums of money when a few days/weeks
> study and research will do?
>
> imho, boot camps are just another way of churning out paper cert
> holders with no real world experience. I do pretty much understand
> where you're coming from in your article, especially the paragraph
> about 'experience', but boot camps just add to the problem, nothing
> more.
>
> btw, I totally distinguish between boot camps and other training
> courses. I would always recommend training courses for learning about
> new products, technologies, methodologies, etc so long as the training
> provider comes recommended. There are still out there, cowboy
> providers who offer cheap, poorly constructed courses; so always do
> research on a provider and remember, cheap does not always mean the
> best value for money.
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

Excellent point. Although for those "experienced I.T. professionals",
there should be the option for accelerated learning available -- whether
it be CLCs or bootcamps. But the latter falls into the category of
knowing the technology and learning the new technology associated with a
new release (e.g. Windows Server 2000 to Windows Server 2003). But I
will agree that the general concept of bootcamps is to "get their money,
get them in, and get them out." The concept of accelerated learning is a
good one. But it is tarnished by many bootcamps by daggling the
certification carrot.

--
Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
CIW Certified Instructor

http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom



"Kline Sphere" <.@> wrote in message
news:

> >http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to
> >respond on the CertGuard forum.
>
> as you posted this here, i'll reply here.
>
> to me the whole concept of boot camps simply add to worthlessness of
> microsoft (and some other vendors) certs. The aim of a boot camp is
> simply to get you through the exams, NOT to teach you the many, many
> real world tools, techniques, technologies and understandings required
> to fulfill ones job in IT. Whether that be as a systems analyst,
> software engineer, network admin, database admin or a help desk dude,
> these traits come only with experience.
>
> So given that these boot comes should only be for experienced people
> (as you put), I say what's the point? As experienced people should
> already know much about the exam(s) topics, why would such people (or
> their company) want to pay those sums of money when a few days/weeks
> study and research will do?
>
> imho, boot camps are just another way of churning out paper cert
> holders with no real world experience. I do pretty much understand
> where you're coming from in your article, especially the paragraph
> about 'experience', but boot camps just add to the problem, nothing
> more.
>
> btw, I totally distinguish between boot camps and other training
> courses. I would always recommend training courses for learning about
> new products, technologies, methodologies, etc so long as the training
> provider comes recommended. There are still out there, cowboy
> providers who offer cheap, poorly constructed courses; so always do
> research on a provider and remember, cheap does not always mean the
> best value for money.
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

>With my boot camps I provide the Sales
>Associates with a list of prerequisite questions and I review all of the
>candidates profiles before they take my camps. And if you somehow make it
>into my camp with no "real world" experience you will not make it out
>certified.

fair enough.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

>Excellent point. Although for those "experienced I.T. professionals",
>there should be the option for accelerated learning available -- whether
>it be CLCs or bootcamps. But the latter falls into the category of
>knowing the technology and learning the new technology associated with a
>new release (e.g. Windows Server 2000 to Windows Server 2003). But I
>will agree that the general concept of bootcamps is to "get their money,
>get them in, and get them out." The concept of accelerated learning is a
>good one. But it is tarnished by many bootcamps by daggling the
>certification carrot.

reading the reply by the Rev, made me think about this a bit more. I
think the Rev made some excellent points, not least: -

I don't give out answers and I don't "teach the test"
*and*
my boot camps I provide the Sales Associates with a list of
prerequisite questions and I review all of the candidates profiles
before they take my camps

It's a shame all boot camps don't adopted this approach. Nevertheless
I'm still don't see the need for boot camps, experience should give
what you need, the rest, i.e. aspects not in your day to day job role,
can be researched. Still, everyone to their own.

I stress again I'm totally in favor of instructor led training, just
can't see how you can teach all the topics required to two weeks and
remember there are many more 'topics' not covered in the exams.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals

/that is all

"Michael D. Alligood" <> wrote in message
news:...
>I have written an article concerning my thoughts on the subject of I.T.
>bootcamps. It can be found at
>http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to respond
>on the CertGuard forum.
>
> Click on the link, read the article, register as a member, write a
> response and JOIN THE FIGHT AGAINST BRAINDUMPS, GUNMEN, AND CHEATERS.
> Remember, it is your certifications; protect them.
>
> --
> Michael D. Alligood
> MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> CIW Certified Instructor
>
> http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom
>
>

I always admired your frankness!

--
Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
CIW Certified Instructor

http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom



"Consultant" <> wrote in message
news::

> bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals
>
> /that is all
>
> "Michael D. Alligood" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> >I have written an article concerning my thoughts on the subject of I.T.
> >bootcamps. It can be found at
> >http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to respond
> >on the CertGuard forum.
> >
> > Click on the link, read the article, register as a member, write a
> > response and JOIN THE FIGHT AGAINST BRAINDUMPS, GUNMEN, AND CHEATERS.
> > Remember, it is your certifications; protect them.
> >
> > --
> > Michael D. Alligood
> > MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> > Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> > CIW Certified Instructor
> >
> > http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom
> >
> >

i aim to please

"Michael D. Alligood" <> wrote in message
news:uFdyJA%...
>I always admired your frankness!
>
> --
> Michael D. Alligood
> MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> CIW Certified Instructor
>
> http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom
>
>
>
> "Consultant" <> wrote in message
> news::
>
>> bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals
>>
>> /that is all
>>
>> "Michael D. Alligood" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>> >I have written an article concerning my thoughts on the subject of I.T.
>> >bootcamps. It can be found at
>> >http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to
>> >respond
>> >on the CertGuard forum.
>> >
>> > Click on the link, read the article, register as a member, write a
>> > response and JOIN THE FIGHT AGAINST BRAINDUMPS, GUNMEN, AND CHEATERS.
>> > Remember, it is your certifications; protect them.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael D. Alligood
>> > MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
>> > Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
>> > CIW Certified Instructor
>> >
>> > http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom
>> >
>> >
>

Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:

> I always admired your frankness!
>
Don't call him Frank. That's not his name.
--

Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCSA, MCSE
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"Definitely not wearing any underwear."