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Overlap between 290 and 270

 
 
Dan
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      04-08-2005
Hi Guys,

Just wondering how much overlap there is between the 290
and 270 exams?
Looking at the curriculum on the MS site, there seems to
be quite a bit.

Without anyone violating the NDA, what info can people
share with me on the similarities between these two exams?

Cheers,
Dan.
 
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blastingfonda
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      04-08-2005
Dan wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Just wondering how much overlap there is between the 290
> and 270 exams?
> Looking at the curriculum on the MS site, there seems to
> be quite a bit.
>
> Without anyone violating the NDA, what info can people
> share with me on the similarities between these two exams?
>
> Cheers,
> Dan.


For me, the only real overlap was in NTFS / share permissions
scenarios. I would study those ad nauseum, set up a test server, create
some user accounts and go to town assigning them different types of
permissions and seeing what the users can do and what they cannot.

And oh yeah, roaming / mandatory / local profiles may have appeared on
both tests as well.

But really that's about it.

 
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catwalker63
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      04-08-2005
"blastingfonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> prattled ceaslessly in
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com:

> Dan wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> Just wondering how much overlap there is between the 290
>> and 270 exams?
>> Looking at the curriculum on the MS site, there seems to
>> be quite a bit.
>>
>> Without anyone violating the NDA, what info can people
>> share with me on the similarities between these two exams?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dan.

>
> For me, the only real overlap was in NTFS / share permissions
> scenarios. I would study those ad nauseum, set up a test server, create
> some user accounts and go to town assigning them different types of
> permissions and seeing what the users can do and what they cannot.
>
> And oh yeah, roaming / mandatory / local profiles may have appeared on
> both tests as well.
>
> But really that's about it.
>
>


Actually, disk management, TCP/IP configuration, installation methods,
group policy, permissions, user rights, microsoft management console,
domain vs. workgroup, all of these things and more can come up on both
exams. Accepted wisdom says to study for both exams together and take
professional first, then server. I did it the other way around and did
fine though.

--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCP, MCSA
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
faq.mcngp.com
"If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man, but it would
deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
 
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blastingfonda
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      04-08-2005
catwalker63 wrote:

> Actually, disk management,


Completely different approach on both exams. 70-290 deals with mirrored
drives and RAID-5 for example which you can't even install on XP.

>TCP/IP configuration,


Same on both, I guess.

> installation methods,


Night and day. RIPrep and RIS servers never appear on 70-290.

> group policy, permissions, user rights,


70-270 had very little on GPOs as I can recall.

> microsoft management console,


Hardly mentioned at all in the 70-270.

> domain vs. workgroup,


Wha? Never came up.

> all of these things and more can come up on both
> exams. Accepted wisdom says to study for both exams together and

take
> professional first, then server. I did it the other way around and

did
> fine though.
>
> --
> Catwalker


Prepping for both at the same time can't hurt, but I definitely
wouldn't study for one and think it pretty enabled me to pass the
other. The two exams are completely different for the most part and
require studying as such.

 
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catwalker63
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      04-08-2005
"blastingfonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> prattled ceaslessly in
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com:

>
> Prepping for both at the same time can't hurt, but I definitely
> wouldn't study for one and think it pretty enabled me to pass the
> other. The two exams are completely different for the most part and
> require studying as such.
>
>


You had one exam with one set of questions. Don't assume that's the mix
everyone is going to get. The exam objectives show definite overlap.
You have to know how each fits into a network with many platforms and
structures. The questions combine concepts and expect you to know how
things fit together, including how professional and server interact. I
have found that each exam builds on another. It is better to treat them
less as discrete exams and more as a puzzle the gets clearer the more
pieces you add.

--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCP, MCSA
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
faq.mcngp.com
"If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man, but it would
deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
 
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blastingfonda
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      04-09-2005

catwalker63 wrote:
>
> You had one exam with one set of questions. Don't assume that's the

mix
> everyone is going to get. The exam objectives show definite overlap.


> You have to know how each fits into a network with many platforms and


> structures. The questions combine concepts and expect you to know

how
> things fit together, including how professional and server interact.

I
> have found that each exam builds on another. It is better to treat

them
> less as discrete exams and more as a puzzle the gets clearer the more


> pieces you add.


I see the exams as discrete exams. The .NET exams for example have
nothing to do with supporting XP Pro, which has nothing to do with
managing a SQL Server. On the MCSE track there is some overlap... more
between 70-291 and 70-293 for example... but I think that's more to do
with the fact that planning a network and maintaining a network are
highly interrelated disciplines - in other words, to support a network
properly, it helps to know how to set things up, and to set things up,
it helps to have had real-life experience supporting and
troubleshooting a network.

I'm not sure the same is true though with client / server interaction.
You can be an excellent client-side support tech without having touched
a server, and you can be a server admin guru who would be at a loss
when resolving client-side issues... though most admins can generally
handle both disciplines...

 
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catwalker63
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      04-09-2005
"blastingfonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> prattled ceaslessly in
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com:

>
> I see the exams as discrete exams. The .NET exams for example have
> nothing to do with supporting XP Pro, which has nothing to do with
> managing a SQL Server. On the MCSE track there is some overlap... more
> between 70-291 and 70-293 for example... but I think that's more to do
> with the fact that planning a network and maintaining a network are
> highly interrelated disciplines - in other words, to support a network
> properly, it helps to know how to set things up, and to set things up,
> it helps to have had real-life experience supporting and
> troubleshooting a network.
>
> I'm not sure the same is true though with client / server interaction.
> You can be an excellent client-side support tech without having
> touched a server, and you can be a server admin guru who would be at a
> loss when resolving client-side issues... though most admins can
> generally handle both disciplines...
>


I'm going to disagree with you again. While there may be some truth to
what you say, learning the client OS will help you with server and
learning the server OS will help you with the client, especially in this
instance where they are both MS and have many of the core elements in
common. That doesn't mean everything is the same, but they many
similarities and many of the same tools. Maybe I'm just more of a big
picture type person, but I prefer to see the network and the
certification as a whole and the client, server, and each exam as pieces
that belong to the whole. (We are talking about the MCSE/MCSA
certification and I don't remember the OP mentioning anything about .NET
exams and knowing server will have a huge impact on learning SQL server.)
Like a puzzle, the exam topics interlock. The more you know about all
the topics, the better you will do on each exam.

I actually started my study with Active Directory since it was the major
change in between NT4 and 2000 and I think it was a good decision. I
didn't take the AD exam until much later, but I think it was critical to
my understanding of server and the role it plays on the network. Every
exam I've taken has built on knowledge and experience I have gained from
studying for the previous exam. My experience managing a network also
helped trememdously even though it is with NT4, Netware, and IBM
AS400/Mainframe server systems. I'm not saying you can't pass the client
exam without all the other stuff, I'm just saying the many of the skills
overlap, which is what the OP was asking. I'm also suggesting that the
goal for the certification shouldn't just be to get the cert but to
really learn the material and be able to apply what was learned.

--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCP, MCSA
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
faq.mcngp.com
"If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man, but it
would deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
 
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blastingfonda
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-09-2005

catwalker63 wrote:
> "blastingfonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> prattled ceaslessly in
> news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com:
>
> >
> > I see the exams as discrete exams. The .NET exams for example have
> > nothing to do with supporting XP Pro, which has nothing to do with
> > managing a SQL Server. On the MCSE track there is some overlap...

more
> > between 70-291 and 70-293 for example... but I think that's more to

do
> > with the fact that planning a network and maintaining a network are
> > highly interrelated disciplines - in other words, to support a

network
> > properly, it helps to know how to set things up, and to set things

up,
> > it helps to have had real-life experience supporting and
> > troubleshooting a network.
> >
> > I'm not sure the same is true though with client / server

interaction.
> > You can be an excellent client-side support tech without having
> > touched a server, and you can be a server admin guru who would be

at a
> > loss when resolving client-side issues... though most admins can
> > generally handle both disciplines...
> >

>
> I'm going to disagree with you again. While there may be some truth

to
> what you say, learning the client OS will help you with server and
> learning the server OS will help you with the client, especially in

this
> instance where they are both MS and have many of the core elements in
> common. That doesn't mean everything is the same, but they many
> similarities and many of the same tools. Maybe I'm just more of a

big
> picture type person, but I prefer to see the network and the
> certification as a whole and the client, server, and each exam as

pieces
> that belong to the whole. (We are talking about the MCSE/MCSA
> certification and I don't remember the OP mentioning anything about

..NET
> exams and knowing server will have a huge impact on learning SQL

server.)
> Like a puzzle, the exam topics interlock. The more you know about

all
> the topics, the better you will do on each exam.


Well, I was actually talking about MCP exams in general not being one
big puzzle, 'cause not knowing quite what you were going on about, I
thought that was the point you were tyring to make. But if you want to
specifically talk about the MCSE track as well, the comment also
applies because SQL Server is an elective for the MCSE/MCSA. And you
can manage a SQL Server quite well without having any knowledge of the
vast majority of client or server issues (unless you're talking about
SQL client issues...)

I think you mentioned once you were going for your 2000 MCSE. Have you
taken the 70-290 and the 70-270? 'Cause again, I'm not sure where
you're coming from in stating the tests are similar. There is a small
amount of overlap (that I covered earlier) and yes, having knowledge of
both server and client is helpful to pass both exams and helpful in sys
admining in general (duh), but there is ton of information exclusive to
the 70-270 exam that isn't covered in 70-290, and a hell of a lot of
stuff in the 70-290 which isn't covered in the 70-270. I'd say the
overlap is at most 10% between the two tests, with 90% being entirely
different. Again, without straying off topic, this is what we were
originally discussing without going into long-winded discussions about
how everything interlocks perfectly or whatever... (I think you're
giving M$oft way too much credit...)

 
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catwalker63
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-09-2005

And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I
told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm
quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've
moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the
window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then,
they switched from the Swingline to the Bostich stapler, but I kept my
Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the
staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take
my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...


--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCP, MCSA
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
faq.mcngp.com
"If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man, but it would
deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
 
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blastingfonda
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-10-2005

catwalker63 wrote:
> And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I


> told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm,

I'm
> quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've


> moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by

the
> window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then,


> they switched from the Swingline to the Bostich stapler, but I kept

my
> Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the
> staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they

take
> my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...


???

So what you're trying to say is that the reason for your nonsensical
rants about how all the MCSE tests are pieces to a puzzle is due to the
fact that you're the female equivalent of the red stapler dude from
'Office Space'?

I'll go with that.

 
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