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Hi, how do people on the group feel about people like me who want to be
(eventually) MCSEs but who are starting from no (commercial) experience? I
read a lot in my spare time and am very keen to learn the skills and get
certified (no brain dumps, I actually want to be good at the job), but I
don't have the solid experience of working in the field (I'm having no luck
with jobs and am hoping the qualification will help a little - not a magic
answer but at least something to set me above some of the guys who at the
moment are stealing jobs from me, probably without MCPs).

Anyway, do you guys consider this a 'paper' MCP or not? I guess I just
don't want to be just some wannabe. I'm going to study and practise as best
I can with my 1 server and 1 laptop...

thanks

-dev...

"Dev Lunsford" <> wrote in message
news:bGW6b.12827$...
> Hi, how do people on the group feel about people like me who want to be
> (eventually) MCSEs but who are starting from no (commercial) experience?
I
> read a lot in my spare time and am very keen to learn the skills and get
> certified (no brain dumps, I actually want to be good at the job), but I
> don't have the solid experience of working in the field (I'm having no
luck
> with jobs and am hoping the qualification will help a little - not a magic
> answer but at least something to set me above some of the guys who at the
> moment are stealing jobs from me, probably without MCPs).
>
> Anyway, do you guys consider this a 'paper' MCP or not? I guess I just
> don't want to be just some wannabe. I'm going to study and practise as
best
> I can with my 1 server and 1 laptop...
>
> thanks

One word: Volunteer

--
Fris "And not the Tennessee kind" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

"Dev Lunsford" <> wrote in message
news:6eY6b.57$...
> > One word: Volunteer
>
> I could take this 2 ways
>
> 1) by all means take the test but you'll never get a job so you might as
> well... volunteer
> 2) gain experience by volunteering, looks good on your resume and
employers
> will love you (within reason)
>
> Thanks. At least I don't feel so much like a loser now...

More the second. You can find a job without experience... you can also win
the lottery.

Also volunteering can open doors for you as well. A different kind of
"networking"


--
Fris "And I ain't talking AMWAY" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

If you are going to work hard and complete the MCSA/MCSE in the next couple
of months go with the 2000 track. Most of this industry is still on 2000
there is even still NT 4 networks out there. You will not see a large move
to 2003 for probably another year to two, this is a guess though. I am on
the 2000 track and plan on taking the 2 addition test to upgrade to 2003.
This means I will take 10 test and earn the following Certifications. MCSA,
MCSA security, MCSE security, MCSA 2003, MCSE 2003.

In reply to you other post experience helps you past the test and get a job
but is not required to take the test. However if you are going to be
successful at the test you need to get a couple of PC's and setup a lab at
your house. By practicing in a lab environment you will vastly improve your
knowledge and increase your chances of passing the test. All of the
Microsoft study guides come with a 180 day trial copy of the software which
is covered in the text so use it to you advantage.

In consideration that you have no experience you may want to look in to the
CompTIA A+ and Network + certifications. These two certifications will lay
the ground work so that you can become a help desk employee. In addition
you can use the combination of these two as one elective for the MCSA
certification.

Most of the above has been covered in this news group a number of times. You
may want to check how many host headers you are downloading at once. Since I
have high speed internet I simply download all headers. By downloading all
the headers you will be able to search for relevant post prior to asking the
question. You may even be able to find the answer immediately and not have
to wait for a reply from someone.

Rick

Thanks for all your help. I should have searched, sorry, I'm pretty new to
newsgroups (strangely, in this line of business - but nevertheless true, and
not just because I'm a dork) and I forget to search in my eagerness to get a
personal answer, but I know it's disrespectful of people's time, and I will
search in future. Thanks for taking the time to reply though.

I'm thinking of doing the A+ if not the Net+ exams too, like you said - with
the 'savings' from not taking expensive training courses I could take an MCP
and the compTIA exams, then hopefully a company might help me take the
rest - or a job will at least pay for the rest. It's good to hear I'm
thinking in the right lines.

I'm looking at probably one exam a month starting now - max. I'm pretty
busy and also need to save for each exam as I do it. Thanks for all the
advice, it's really helped me feel better about this. I really thought I'd
get told I would certainly fail without training. Now at least I feel like
I might not fail if I work hard - at least not more than once... Anyway
that means I won't reach MCSA until at least February or March,
realistically. Since the 2003 track lets you use Win2kPro as the client
exam I figure I'm safe to do that and then A+ and see what happens.

-dev...

"Rick" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> If you are going to work hard and complete the MCSA/MCSE in the next
couple
> of months go with the 2000 track. Most of this industry is still on 2000
> there is even still NT 4 networks out there. You will not see a large move
> to 2003 for probably another year to two, this is a guess though. I am on
> the 2000 track and plan on taking the 2 addition test to upgrade to 2003.
> This means I will take 10 test and earn the following Certifications.
MCSA,
> MCSA security, MCSE security, MCSA 2003, MCSE 2003.
>
> In reply to you other post experience helps you past the test and get a
job
> but is not required to take the test. However if you are going to be
> successful at the test you need to get a couple of PC's and setup a lab at
> your house. By practicing in a lab environment you will vastly improve
your
> knowledge and increase your chances of passing the test. All of the
> Microsoft study guides come with a 180 day trial copy of the software
which
> is covered in the text so use it to you advantage.
>
> In consideration that you have no experience you may want to look in to
the
> CompTIA A+ and Network + certifications. These two certifications will lay
> the ground work so that you can become a help desk employee. In addition
> you can use the combination of these two as one elective for the MCSA
> certification.
>
> Most of the above has been covered in this news group a number of times.
You
> may want to check how many host headers you are downloading at once. Since
I
> have high speed internet I simply download all headers. By downloading all
> the headers you will be able to search for relevant post prior to asking
the
> question. You may even be able to find the answer immediately and not have
> to wait for a reply from someone.
>
> Rick
>
>

Good advice from Fris about volunteering, but thats ok if you have that
luxury. If you have a mortgage to pay and mouths to feed, you're not gonna
wanna be working for free!

Steve.
"Rick" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Dev,
> Do not take any offense to the search comment, it was ment to help you
avoid
> the pain of being flamed. However it certainly looks like the flaming has
> calmed down.
>
> If you go with the 2000 Track I would not worry about time as the cert
will
> be around for some time. If it was me with a projected date of February I
> would still go 2000 and upgrade. Remeber you will be a valuable asset to a
> company that already has either 2000 or 2003 if you go the upgrade path.
> Since 2000 is different than 2003 some companies using 2000 may not
consider
> you a good canidate if you only have the 2003 cetification.
>
> I do want to stress again once you go beyond test 70-210 you need to look
at
> setting up a lab. Without practicing in a lab enviroment you are not going
> to learn some of the aspects that are required by the test.
>
> I would also recommend that if you can afford it look into some testing
> software. There are several companies that make practice test such as
> transcender and measure up. I have used the measure up and like them. The
> practice mode allows you to reveal the answer and the location which you
can
> research the answer. It will tell you if the answer came from technet, the
> resource kit for the product, Self paced training, or the Microsoft
Offecial
> Course.
>
> You also need to learn to use Microsoft resources such as the Knowledge
base
> on the MS web site. Being certified does not mean you know all the
answers.
> However in getting certified you should learn where to look for the
answers.
>
> Above all do not get discouraged. Many who have been down this path before
> will tell you that it is not always easy, sometimes you even have to take
a
> test more then once (70-216 for most). Most of the time you can come here
> for a sholder to cry on or even a congrats for all of your success.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Rick
>
>

"SteveC" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Good advice from Fris about volunteering, but thats ok if you have that
> luxury. If you have a mortgage to pay and mouths to feed, you're not gonna
> wanna be working for free!

You don't have to do volunteer work full-time. You do full time whatever
you have to do to provide for your family. You carve out some hours, even
if on weekends, and volunteer to do work at schools or libraries. Any
experience helps.


--
Fris "The toughest job you'll ever love" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

At the risk of over-enthusiasm, "You guys rock!!!!!!!"

Thanks for your ideas. I've been putting out the feelers in schools
recently, so good to get confirmation of a good plan. I'm gonna make it...
you will see my name in lights...

-dev...

"Dev Lunsford" <> wrote in message
news:ZPk7b.661$...
> At the risk of over-enthusiasm, "You guys rock!!!!!!!"
>
> Thanks for your ideas. I've been putting out the feelers in schools
> recently, so good to get confirmation of a good plan. I'm gonna make
it...
> you will see my name in lights...

Good luck, Dev. Maybe you're looking to get into the wrong area of IT,
though. With a name like yours, you should be a software DEVeloper.


--
Fris "or is Dev short for Deviant?" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help