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asked for a salary increase after doing the MCDST at my own expence and
time since the company I work for wouldn't pay for even a book or exam and
was told, basically, no to the raise. Odd thing is , is that this company
wants to become a Gold MS member and I heard that this requires that there
be at least some MS certifications for some of the staff?
Can anyone confirm this?

tj

first of all, well done on passing your exams. That is of course the first
step. I can offer some of my personal opinions and experiences talking to
companies and personnel managers even if it might not please you much . To
my knowledge an MCP is infrequently honoured concerning salaries, it's a kind
of "driver's license" issue, i.e. if you don't have it, people will ask why
not resp. not employ you, but if you have got it, it's considered a "minimal
requirement" by many companies nowadays as already over 1.8 million people
are MS certified. Of course this depends on the type of job and the
geogaphical region. Personally I haven't heard of anyone getting a raise out
of an MCP but it can happen, of course.

In my opinion it comes down to this: Jobs are a market place. If your work
is worth more than what you get it's best (for yourself as well as for your
manager) to prove it. Qualification might help, but work performance should
be much more important. If you look around and find a job that fits your
requirements and pays better, take it or go to your manager and ask for a
raise. She/he may do so or not, and then you may stay or not. Isn't it so?

Good luck.
RemoteShark MCP

"TJ" wrote:

> asked for a salary increase after doing the MCDST at my own expence and
> time since the company I work for wouldn't pay for even a book or exam and
> was told, basically, no to the raise. Odd thing is , is that this company
> wants to become a Gold MS member and I heard that this requires that there
> be at least some MS certifications for some of the staff?
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> tj
>
>
>

true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I do,
nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for MCSA
which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
impression on them....
perhaps it is time to be looking around...
really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...


"RemoteShark" <> wrote in message
news:380BEABF-C4B4-4D4B-8792-...
> first of all, well done on passing your exams. That is of course the first
> step. I can offer some of my personal opinions and experiences talking to
> companies and personnel managers even if it might not please you much .
> To
> my knowledge an MCP is infrequently honoured concerning salaries, it's a
> kind
> of "driver's license" issue, i.e. if you don't have it, people will ask
> why
> not resp. not employ you, but if you have got it, it's considered a
> "minimal
> requirement" by many companies nowadays as already over 1.8 million people
> are MS certified. Of course this depends on the type of job and the
> geogaphical region. Personally I haven't heard of anyone getting a raise
> out
> of an MCP but it can happen, of course.
>
> In my opinion it comes down to this: Jobs are a market place. If your work
> is worth more than what you get it's best (for yourself as well as for
> your
> manager) to prove it. Qualification might help, but work performance
> should
> be much more important. If you look around and find a job that fits your
> requirements and pays better, take it or go to your manager and ask for a
> raise. She/he may do so or not, and then you may stay or not. Isn't it so?
>
> Good luck.
> RemoteShark MCP
>
> "TJ" wrote:
>
>> asked for a salary increase after doing the MCDST at my own expence and
>> time since the company I work for wouldn't pay for even a book or exam
>> and
>> was told, basically, no to the raise. Odd thing is , is that this company
>> wants to become a Gold MS member and I heard that this requires that
>> there
>> be at least some MS certifications for some of the staff?
>> Can anyone confirm this?
>>
>> tj
>>
>>
>>

On Jul 23, 8:22 am, "TJ" <te...@formark.com> wrote:
> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I do,
> nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for MCSA
> which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
> impression on them....
> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>
> "RemoteShark" <RemoteSh...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>
> news:380BEABF-C4B4-4D4B-8792-...
>
>
>
> > first of all, well done on passing your exams. That is of course the first
> > step. I can offer some of my personal opinions and experiences talking to
> > companies and personnel managers even if it might not please you much .
> > To
> > my knowledge an MCP is infrequently honoured concerning salaries, it's a
> > kind
> > of "driver's license" issue, i.e. if you don't have it, people will ask
> > why
> > not resp. not employ you, but if you have got it, it's considered a
> > "minimal
> > requirement" by many companies nowadays as already over 1.8 million people
> > are MS certified. Of course this depends on the type of job and the
> > geogaphical region. Personally I haven't heard of anyone getting a raise
> > out
> > of an MCP but it can happen, of course.
>
> > In my opinion it comes down to this: Jobs are a market place. If your work
> > is worth more than what you get it's best (for yourself as well as for
> > your
> > manager) to prove it. Qualification might help, but work performance
> > should
> > be much more important. If you look around and find a job that fits your
> > requirements and pays better, take it or go to your manager and ask for a
> > raise. She/he may do so or not, and then you may stay or not. Isn't it so?
>
> > Good luck.
> > RemoteShark MCP
>
> > "TJ" wrote:
>
> >> asked for a salary increase after doing the MCDST at my own expence and
> >> time since the company I work for wouldn't pay for even a book or exam
> >> and
> >> was told, basically, no to the raise. Odd thing is , is that this company
> >> wants to become a Gold MS member and I heard that this requires that
> >> there
> >> be at least some MS certifications for some of the staff?
> >> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> >> tj- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I feel your pain buddy. Same exact situation here. I pursued MCDST and
got it on my own. My work, after bugging them to no end, said that
they would only reimburse me for the cost of the books, assuming that
they got to keep them! Screw that! I got them all off Amazon shipped
for around $31, so book money wasn't the issue. I begged to have them
reimburse me for a passed exam....nada. They even force me to take
vacation to go take the tests. Talk about cheap.

The stuff I learned when getting the MCDST "directly" improved the
fine tunning of our network and computer environment. I discovered
problems I never knew we had after taking those exams. I point this
out to the HR staff. I show them examples of stuff that has been fixed
or processes improved because of my knowledge. They don't give 1
squat. They finaly gave me something in writting to shut me up that
basically says very clearly that "my position does not require any
professional certifications, therefore they will not compensate me for
obtaining them". So basically they don't want people to learn, or
expand their knowledge at all. After that, I immediately updated my
resume and posted it on Careerbuilder.com that day. I have started
getting calls for my MCDST which is very motivating to continue
studying for MCSE. It is a pleasant surprise to realize that employers
are starting to call me instead of the other way around. My MCDST gave
me that power.

I have interviewed a few times, but I am holding out for a job I want,
not a job I need. The only perk of staying here is that I kinda can do
whatever I want, so I spend many days just studying lol. Shhhh don't
tell them!

Some employers can't realize the potential in someone untill they are
gone. Oh well, there is always another job out there. Good luck with
your studies.
DJ

"TJ" <> wrote in message
news:...
> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I do,
> nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for MCSA
> which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
> impression on them....
> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>
Hi TJ

Does your company have annual pay reviews? If so, your MCDST qualification
*may* be taken into account at that time. It is unusual, in my experience,
for a company to grant a pay increase other than at annual review time,
unless you have earned a promotion, or they are desperate to keep you.

With regard to that last point, you may find that, if you do find an
alternative better-paid job, your current employer offers to match the new
salary if you agree to stay on. This has happened to me on occasion. You
would then need to ask yourself whether you want to stay with a company
where you had to threaten to leave before you got a pay increase. There is
also the chance that, come annual review time, you would not get a further
increase so you would not be any better off.

You may therefore prefer to take your chances with another company. It all
depends on how much you enjoy working for your current employer.

I wish you well whatever you decide to do.

IT Girl MCDST

everything you said is so true..I used my holidays to for studying and exam
writing. What is wrong here?
this is crazy!


"djpimpdaddy" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> On Jul 23, 8:22 am, "TJ" <te...@formark.com> wrote:
>> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I
>> do,
>> nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for MCSA
>> which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
>> impression on them....
>> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
>> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
>> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>>
>> "RemoteShark" <RemoteSh...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:380BEABF-C4B4-4D4B-8792-...
>>
>>
>>
>> > first of all, well done on passing your exams. That is of course the
>> > first
>> > step. I can offer some of my personal opinions and experiences talking
>> > to
>> > companies and personnel managers even if it might not please you much
>> > .
>> > To
>> > my knowledge an MCP is infrequently honoured concerning salaries, it's
>> > a
>> > kind
>> > of "driver's license" issue, i.e. if you don't have it, people will ask
>> > why
>> > not resp. not employ you, but if you have got it, it's considered a
>> > "minimal
>> > requirement" by many companies nowadays as already over 1.8 million
>> > people
>> > are MS certified. Of course this depends on the type of job and the
>> > geogaphical region. Personally I haven't heard of anyone getting a
>> > raise
>> > out
>> > of an MCP but it can happen, of course.
>>
>> > In my opinion it comes down to this: Jobs are a market place. If your
>> > work
>> > is worth more than what you get it's best (for yourself as well as for
>> > your
>> > manager) to prove it. Qualification might help, but work performance
>> > should
>> > be much more important. If you look around and find a job that fits
>> > your
>> > requirements and pays better, take it or go to your manager and ask for
>> > a
>> > raise. She/he may do so or not, and then you may stay or not. Isn't it
>> > so?
>>
>> > Good luck.
>> > RemoteShark MCP
>>
>> > "TJ" wrote:
>>
>> >> asked for a salary increase after doing the MCDST at my own expence
>> >> and
>> >> time since the company I work for wouldn't pay for even a book or exam
>> >> and
>> >> was told, basically, no to the raise. Odd thing is , is that this
>> >> company
>> >> wants to become a Gold MS member and I heard that this requires that
>> >> there
>> >> be at least some MS certifications for some of the staff?
>> >> Can anyone confirm this?
>>
>> >> tj- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I feel your pain buddy. Same exact situation here. I pursued MCDST and
> got it on my own. My work, after bugging them to no end, said that
> they would only reimburse me for the cost of the books, assuming that
> they got to keep them! Screw that! I got them all off Amazon shipped
> for around $31, so book money wasn't the issue. I begged to have them
> reimburse me for a passed exam....nada. They even force me to take
> vacation to go take the tests. Talk about cheap.
>
> The stuff I learned when getting the MCDST "directly" improved the
> fine tunning of our network and computer environment. I discovered
> problems I never knew we had after taking those exams. I point this
> out to the HR staff. I show them examples of stuff that has been fixed
> or processes improved because of my knowledge. They don't give 1
> squat. They finaly gave me something in writting to shut me up that
> basically says very clearly that "my position does not require any
> professional certifications, therefore they will not compensate me for
> obtaining them". So basically they don't want people to learn, or
> expand their knowledge at all. After that, I immediately updated my
> resume and posted it on Careerbuilder.com that day. I have started
> getting calls for my MCDST which is very motivating to continue
> studying for MCSE. It is a pleasant surprise to realize that employers
> are starting to call me instead of the other way around. My MCDST gave
> me that power.
>
> I have interviewed a few times, but I am holding out for a job I want,
> not a job I need. The only perk of staying here is that I kinda can do
> whatever I want, so I spend many days just studying lol. Shhhh don't
> tell them!
>
> Some employers can't realize the potential in someone untill they are
> gone. Oh well, there is always another job out there. Good luck with
> your studies.
> DJ
>
>

my last review and pay raise was three years ago.....you're absolutely right
though..why stay with a company if you have to threaten to leave before they
listen.......I was under the impression (perhaps naively) that these certs
would help...maybe I just need to find a place where it WILL matter...


"TheITGirl" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> "TJ" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I
>> do, nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for
>> MCSA which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
>> impression on them....
>> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
>> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
>> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>>
> Hi TJ
>
> Does your company have annual pay reviews? If so, your MCDST
> qualification *may* be taken into account at that time. It is unusual, in
> my experience, for a company to grant a pay increase other than at annual
> review time, unless you have earned a promotion, or they are desperate to
> keep you.
>
> With regard to that last point, you may find that, if you do find an
> alternative better-paid job, your current employer offers to match the new
> salary if you agree to stay on. This has happened to me on occasion. You
> would then need to ask yourself whether you want to stay with a company
> where you had to threaten to leave before you got a pay increase. There
> is also the chance that, come annual review time, you would not get a
> further increase so you would not be any better off.
>
> You may therefore prefer to take your chances with another company. It
> all depends on how much you enjoy working for your current employer.
>
> I wish you well whatever you decide to do.
>
> IT Girl MCDST
>

"TJ" <> wrote in message
news:...
> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I do,
> nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for MCSA
> which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
> impression on them....
> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>
>
One of the ways that Gold Partners obtain and maintain that status is
through a "point" system. There are many ways to earn points. One way, is
to have certified people on staff. For example, an MCP might be 1 point, a
MCDST 2 points, MCSA 3 points, etc. (I am not sure of the exact scale, but
it is something like that). When your employer asks you to associate your
MCP ID with them so they can get the points, ask them what has changed that
they now value your certification when they didn't before. (Of course,
don't get yourself fired, but you will have a little more leverage at that
point). Maybe at least get them to reimburse you test fees before you agree
to associate your MCP ID with them.

John R

really?...interesting....that would be a tenable position for me to be
in....


"John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
news:%...
>
> "TJ" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I
>> do, nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for
>> MCSA which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made no
>> impression on them....
>> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
>> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
>> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>>
>>
> One of the ways that Gold Partners obtain and maintain that status is
> through a "point" system. There are many ways to earn points. One way,
> is to have certified people on staff. For example, an MCP might be 1
> point, a MCDST 2 points, MCSA 3 points, etc. (I am not sure of the exact
> scale, but it is something like that). When your employer asks you to
> associate your MCP ID with them so they can get the points, ask them what
> has changed that they now value your certification when they didn't
> before. (Of course, don't get yourself fired, but you will have a little
> more leverage at that point). Maybe at least get them to reimburse you
> test fees before you agree to associate your MCP ID with them.
>
> John R
>

"TJ" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> really?...interesting....that would be a tenable position for me to be
> in....
>
>
> "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
> news:%...
>>
>> "TJ" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> true...but my performance here is in my opinion very good since what I
>>> do, nobody else can or is willing. I have already ordered the books for
>>> MCSA which is next on the list and informed them of my plans...it made
>>> no impression on them....
>>> perhaps it is time to be looking around...
>>> really a shame that they cannot see or understand what is involved in
>>> getting these MS certs.....for me it was a lot of work...
>>>
>>>
>> One of the ways that Gold Partners obtain and maintain that status is
>> through a "point" system. There are many ways to earn points. One way,
>> is to have certified people on staff. For example, an MCP might be 1
>> point, a MCDST 2 points, MCSA 3 points, etc. (I am not sure of the exact
>> scale, but it is something like that). When your employer asks you to
>> associate your MCP ID with them so they can get the points, ask them what
>> has changed that they now value your certification when they didn't
>> before. (Of course, don't get yourself fired, but you will have a little
>> more leverage at that point). Maybe at least get them to reimburse you
>> test fees before you agree to associate your MCP ID with them.
>>
>> John R
>>

Yea, I can see the conversation now...

Boss - "I need you to register your MCP ID with our organization"
You - "Gee, I'd love to, but I've got this letter that says that my position
does not require certifications"
Boss - "Yea, well now it does"
You - "So, what's in it for me?"
Boss - "Maybe you'll get to keep your job"

At least, that is how it would go here, lol.

Good luck to you.

John R