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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:30:45 +0100, claudius wrote:

> "Aardvark" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:Gf79l.149368$2...
>>
>> Grazie!
> Prego ! (Welcome!)
>

No need to translate that bit. I know THAT much Italian

About twenty years ago, the sister of a friend of mine went to work in
San Remo for the summer. When she came back to the UK, she brought with
her a Calabrese called Natalino Barone with whom she had been working
over there. Out of all my group of friends and acquaintances at the time
i was the only one who could speak a European language, which was French.
Natalino could also speak French, having worked in Paris for a few years,
so he would seek me out to converse with. I think it helped him to feel
less alone in England and I gladly practised my spoken French with him. A
win-win situation. we became great friends and he taught me a smattering
of his native language and some Sicilian, most of which I have since, to
my shame, forgotten. He eventually married my friend's sister and the
last I heard they owned an Italian restaurant in London

> >Io ti amo.
> Well, I'm not a girl ))
> (unless, saying that you "love" me, you would state particular sexual
> inclinations ... )
>

Nah! It was just a phrase that sprung to mind

> Ciao
> Ciao! Pleased to have spoken with you.

And I with you .



--
The month of March in this year of 2009 sees the centenary of the laying
of the keel of the most famous (or infamous) ocean liner of all time, RMS
Titanic, at Harland & Wolff shipyard in Belfast.
< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic>

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:19:04 +0100, claudius wrote:

> "Aardvark" <> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:_K79l.149454$2...
>>
>> There are two forms of the French adjective to which we are all
>> referring: fort (pronounced 'FOR') which is the masculine adjectival
>> form and 'forte' (pronounced 'FORT'), the feminine form.
>
> You're perfectly right; I knew the French word "fort", but I had
> completely skipped its feminine form "forte" when I said that "it does
> not exist in French".
> I really doubt, though, that this feminine adjective has anything to do
> with the word "forte" as internationally understood.
>

As you know, I had already stated that the word 'forte' as originally
discussed within a particular context did, indeed, have its roots in
Latin/Italian. So no argument there from me

>> claudius- you will recognise the principle of grammatical gender from
>> speaking and writing your own language, although to most English
>> speakers who have no knowledge of languages other than their own, it
>> will be somewhat complicated and mysterious. Perhaps you can supply us
>> (tinu) with some Italian examples of masculine/feminine definite
>> articles (il/ la) and matching nouns and adjectives.
>
> To English-speaking people it may appear illogical attributing a
> "gender" (a sex) to a book or a pen (in Italian, book is masculine: "il
> libro"; pen is feminine: "la penna"), but to native Italians it is
> clear that it is a convention, something that has nothing to do with a
> real sex. As it happens in all languages for any linguistic mechanism,
> you have just to learn them and then use them. Italian words ending in
> -o are generally (VERY generally) masculine, ending in -a are
> feminine. As we don't have your functional -s for forming plural nouns,
> we generally form our plurals with a final -i (if masculine: "i libri")
> or -e (if feminine: "le penne").
> These very complicated rules got even more complicated owing to the fact
> that there many exceptions and that adjectives and articles have their
> own gender and plurals. Once again, practising Italian (and studying it
> contemporarily) is the simplest way to learn it. English is apparently
> much simpler, if we consider its grammar of words, but I can assure you
> that it is very difficult to a stranger if we consider its construction
> of phrases - leaving apart the pronounce of words, terribly difficult
> for Italians who have only one (clear) sound for each letter.

You'll be confusing some people here and making them think that your
language (which I consider a somewhat 'musical' language when spoken) is
confusing They'll be thinking: WTF the Italians have four ****in'
words for 'the' !!!!.

There are some languages I enjoy listening to when spoken. The sound and
tempo seem to me to embody the character of the nation the language
represents. On the one hand Italian, French, Spanish and other Romance
languages when spoken are somehow lyrical and affectionate-sounding.
Compare that to Japanese, German and Afrikaans for instance. When spoken
they are staccato and abrupt-sounding and somehow harder to listen to (at
least to me). Afrikaans, especially, I find difficult to listen to for
very long.

I also enjoy the sound of spoken Hebrew or even Arabic, both languages
which, to my ears, are two of the more lyrical well-known ones. Erse
(Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gallic) lends itself well to poetry and song
when spoken. I could listen to it all day long, despite having no
comprehension of either.

This said, I admire your grasp of the English language. You write with
not a trace of Italian accent . Too few native speakers of English
ever take the time or trouble to learn a second language and it annoys me
to see some English people trying to communicate with European people by
speaking English slowly and loudly, as if anyone on the far side of the
English Channel is like a slightly demented maiden aunt.

Exempli gratia: When Gorbachev was in charge in Russia, in the days of
Glasnost/Perestroika, a UK television reporter was conducting a vox pop
in the streets of Moscow. He approached a STREET SWEEPER and asked if he
spoke English. When the guy answered in the affirmative the reporter went
on to ask the guy a series of questions. The guy answered every question
in perfect unaccented English (well, with a slight American twang). A
STREET SWEEPER for chrissakes! The fact that he was probably a nuclear
physicist disallowed to work as such because of dissension or whatever is
beside the point. The fact remains that other nationalities take more
trouble to learn English than English speakers take to learn even a
smattering of theirs. That embarrasses me to a large extent,
demonstrating as it does a lack of good manners to say the least.

Anyway, I've rambled on too much although I could continue all day on the
subject- one of my pet peeves

I have enjoyed/ am enjoying our exchange. Thank you claudius (or as the
Romans used to write it, CLAVDIVS ).



--
The month of March in this year of 2009 sees the centenary of the laying
of the keel of the most famous (or infamous) ocean liner of all time, RMS
Titanic, at Harland & Wolff shipyard in Belfast.
< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic>

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:56:41 +0100, claudius wrote:

>> The fact remains that other nationalities take more
>> trouble to learn English than English speakers take to learn even a
>> smattering of theirs. That embarrasses me to a large extent,
>> demonstrating as it does a lack of good manners to say the least.
>>
> Why embarassing yourself? It's a matter of fact: English is an
> international language, perhaps the only one; English-speaking persons
> feel they can save themselves the trouble of learning another language
> ... and they don't learn it, leaving the effort to those who do it for
> personal interest or culture ...

My brother did a back-packing tour of South America and some of the US in
the 80s, finally ending up in Nicaragua 'helping the revolution' for
a few months. Before he left Australia (where he lives) he took the
trouble to learn South American Spanish before he left on his journey. It
pleased the people he met in every country that he could speak their
language and a few thought at first he was Chilean because of the accent
he had acquired while learning the language.

He said that if one wanted to spend time in another country, no matter
how long, it's courteous to first learn at least a little of the
language. How is it possible to absorb an alien culture fully without
first doing so. I agree with that sentiment.



--
The month of March in this year of 2009 sees the centenary of the laying
of the keel of the most famous (or infamous) ocean liner of all time, RMS
Titanic, at Harland & Wolff shipyard in Belfast.
< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic>