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The Isaerli Government believes they need a "Firefox Version"!

 
 
Jonathan N. Little
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      01-03-2009
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> The current North Dakotains took the land by force from native
> Americans.


Yep, they did...did make it right.

> In Israel, on the other hand, there was no such thing as
> a "Palestinian" prior to the attacks on Israel in 1948/1967/1973.
> There comes a time when one must admit that the war is over and
> deal with who owns the land now.
>


Oh, so there was *no one* living there prior to 1948?

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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      01-03-2009
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
>
>
> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>
>> However there have been people living in Palestine, i.e,.
>> Palestinians, long before colonial rule...

>
> Evidence, please.
>
> "Nothing there [Jerusalem] to be seen but a little of the old
> walls which is yet remaining and all the rest is grass, moss
> and weeds."
> --English pilgrim in 1590
>
> "The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants
> and therefore its greatest need is of a body of population"
> --British consul in 1857
>
> "There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent
> [valley of Jezreel] not for 30 miles in either direction."
>
> "One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings.
> For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee..."
> --Mark Twain, _The Innocents Abroad_, 1867
>
> "Nazareth is forlorn ... Jericho lies a moldering ruin...
> Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation...
> ...untenanted by any living creature... A desolate country
> whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds.
> ...a silent, mournful expanse...a desolation..."
> --Mark Twain, _The Innocents Abroad_, 1867
>
> "We never saw a human being on the whole route... Hardly a
> tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus,
> those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted
> the country... Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes...
> desolate and unlovely..."
> --Mark Twain, _The Innocents Abroad_, 1867
>
> There never was a Palestinian state or a Palestinian nation.
> Israel did not go to war against a Palestinian state and
> occupy its land. Rather, Israel was attacked by six Arab
> countries at once. She defended herself, defeated her
> attackers, and won the so-called territories, not from
> the Palestinians, but from Jordan and Egypt.
>
> During the 19 years that the West Bank, and the Gaza
> stip were occupied by the kingdoms of Jordan and Egypt,
> no one talked about a Palestinian state, not the Arab
> countries, not the United Nations, nobody! Nobody ever
> asked Jordan or Egypt to abdicate their ownership and give
> it to "the Palestinians." Not even the people who are now
> called Palestinians said anything about a Palestinian state
> or a Palestinian people, because nobody had ever heard of
> a Palestinian people. They were Egyptians and Jordanians.
>
> Most Arabs living in Palestine today are not indigenous
> to the region. It was not until after the Jews had
> changed deserts and swamps into a productive and thriving
> land that the Arabs started migrating there. The Jews
> did not displace anyone, because no one permanently
> resided there. The only "inhabitants" were nomadic
> Bedouin tribes passing through.
>


Same was said about the Kalahari, the Bushman where not using, right?


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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DLU
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      01-03-2009
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
>
>
> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>
>> However there have been people living in Palestine, i.e,.
>> Palestinians, long before colonial rule...

>
> Evidence, please.


Early archeological textual reference to the territory of Palestine
is found in the Merneptah Stele, dated c. 1200 BCE, containing a
recount of Egyptian king Merneptah's victories in the land of Canaan,
mentioning place-names such as Gezer, Ashkelon and Yanoam, along with
Israel, which is mentioned using a hieroglyphic determinative that
indicates a nomad people, rather than a state.
Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, record a people
called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset), one of the Sea Peoples
who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign. This is considered very
likely to be a reference to the Philistines. The Hebrew name Peleshet
(פלשת Pəléshseth) usually translated as Philistia in English, is used
in the Bible to denote "the coastal region north and south of Gaza
which was occupied and settled by Philistine invaders from across the sea".
The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called the region the Palashtu in
his Annals. By the time of Assyrian rule in 722 BCE, the Philistines
had become 'part and parcel of the local population',[16][17] and
prospered under Assyrian rule during the seventh century despite
occasional rebellions against their overlords.[10] In 604 BCE,
when Assyrian troops commanded by the Babylonian empire carried
off significant numbers of the population into slavery, the
distinctly Philistine character of the coastal cities dwindled
away,[16][18] and the history of the Philistine people effectively
ended.[10]


>
>
>
> There never was a Palestinian state or a Palestinian nation.
> Israel did not go to war against a Palestinian state and
> occupy its land. Rather, Israel was attacked by six Arab
> countries at once. She defended herself, defeated her
> attackers, and won the so-called territories, not from
> the Palestinians, but from Jordan and Egypt.


In European usage up to World War I, "Palestine" was used informally for
a region that extended in the north-south direction typically from
Raphia (south-east of Gaza) to the Litani River (now in Lebanon). The
western boundary was the sea, and the eastern boundary was the
poorly-defined place where the Syrian desert began. In various European
sources, the eastern boundary was placed anywhere from the Jordan River
to slightly east of Amman. The Negev Desert was not included.[114]

Under the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, it was envisioned that most of
Palestine, when freed from Ottoman control, would become an
international zone not under direct French or British colonial control.
Shortly thereafter, British foreign minister Arthur Balfour issued the
controversial Balfour Declaration of 1917, which promised to establish a
Jewish state in Palestine in exchange for the Jewish financial support
to the British in their war against Ottomans and Germans.

The British-led Egyptian Expeditionary Force, commanded by Edmund
Allenby, captured Jerusalem on 9 December 1917 and occupied the whole of
the Levant following the defeat of Turkish forces in Palestine at the
Battle of Megiddo in September 1918 and the capitulation of Turkey on 31
October.[115]
>
> During the 19 years that the West Bank, and the Gaza
> stip were occupied by the kingdoms of Jordan and Egypt,
> no one talked about a Palestinian state, not the Arab
> countries, not the United Nations, nobody! Nobody ever
> asked Jordan or Egypt to abdicate their ownership and give
> it to "the Palestinians." Not even the people who are now
> called Palestinians said anything about a Palestinian state
> or a Palestinian people, because nobody had ever heard of
> a Palestinian people. They were Egyptians and Jordanians.
>
> Most Arabs living in Palestine today are not indigenous
> to the region. It was not until after the Jews had
> changed deserts and swamps into a productive and thriving
> land that the Arabs started migrating there. The Jews
> did not displace anyone, because no one permanently
> resided there. The only "inhabitants" were nomadic
> Bedouin tribes passing through.
>


Umayyad rule (661–750 CE)

Under Umayyad rule, the Byzantine province of Palaestina Prima became
the administrative and military sub-province (jund) of Filastin - the
Arabic name for Palestine from that point forward. It formed part of the
larger province of ash-Sham (Arabic for Greater Syria). Jund Filastin
(Arabic جند فلسطين, literally "the army of Palestine") was a region
extending from the Sinai to the plain of Acre. Major towns included
Rafah, Caesarea, Gaza, Jaffa, Nablus and JerichoJund al-Urdunn
(literally "the army of Jordan") was a region to the north and east of
Filastin which included the cities of Acre, Bisan and Tiberias.
In 691, Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan ordered that the Dome of the Rock
be built on the site where the Islamic prophet Muhammad is believed by
Muslims to have begun his nocturnal journey to heaven, on the Temple
Mount. About a decade afterward, Caliph Al-Walid I had the Al-Aqsa
Mosque built.

It was under Umayyad rule that Christians and Jews were granted the
official title of "Peoples of the Book" to underline the common
monotheistic roots they shared with Islam.

So most Americans living in the US today are not indigenous to the
region. The next time a Sioux, Crow, Navajo, or Apache comes to you
door, will you give him his land back? Or, will you, like many Hasidim
I have heard, claim that God gave you this land?

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************
 
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dorayme
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      01-03-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> The Israelis are getting along fine with the Palestinians in the
> west bank


Cough, splutter,... there goes the coffee on the keyboard *again*...

--
dorayme
 
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dorayme
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      01-03-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
sheldonlg <sheldonlg> wrote:

> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> > dorayme wrote:
> >
> >> You have swallowed the biased accounts in newspapers and
> >> TV. Your remarks about muslim propaganda are simply laughable, given
> >> your deafening silence on the propaganda machine for the Israelis.

> >
> > Who attacked who in 1848?

>
> 1948.
>
> >
> > Who attacked who in 1967?
> >
> > Who attacked who in 1973?
> >
> > Why are the Israelis getting along so well with the Palestinians
> > in the west bank?
> >
> > Any bets on whether I will get straigh answers to the above questions?

>
> The odds are too high against it.


You will get as straight an answer as you will ever get in "The Gun and
the Olive Branch: The Roots of Violence in the Middle East" (Nation
Books) (Paperback) by David Hirst.

<http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Olive-Branch-Violence-Middle/dp/1560254831>

What are the odds that those who have read the above include the people
who have *not* stood up to demand that their governments pressure Israel
to withdraw from much of the lands they grabbed subsequent to 1948 etc
etc...

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dorayme
 
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DLU
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-03-2009
dorayme wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
> wrote:
>
>> The Israelis are getting along fine with the Palestinians in the
>> west bank

>
> Cough, splutter,... there goes the coffee on the keyboard *again*...
>


The question is, who says so? The Palestinians whose olive groves have
been torn out to build more kibbutz's?

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************
 
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Tim Streater
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-03-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> sheldonlg wrote:
>
> >How about calling on the Arabs to "respect international boundaries"?
> >If they would stop sending rockets and suicide bombers into Israel,
> >there just **might** be peace in the region. After all, who got hurt
> >when Israel shut its borders in response to those attacks? It was the
> >Palestinians who worked in Israel that could no longer do so. By
> >killing Israelis they are shooting themselves in the foot. By electing
> >a terrorist group to control their government that is committed
> >**OPENLY** to the complete destruction of the state of Israel, they do
> >the same.
> >
> >There is just so much "Please stop that" that a sovereign nation can say
> >before it must result to force in retaliation and not be "driven into
> >the sea".
> >
> >Again, what would **YOU** have **YOUR** government do if it were
> >attacked by a foreign entity? Oh, I'm sure you would say "No, no, don't
> >fight those poor people. We have to talk to them and ask them to please
> >stop".

>
> It should also be pointed out that a hundred years ago there were
> no jobs to speak of in either place.


You mean no jobs in banking, retail, making movies, etc? I expect they
were all doing simple things like olive trees, farming etc.

> The Gazans could have made
> it so that *they* have a thriving industry and that closing the
> border would keep *Israelis* working in *Palestine* away from their
> jobs.


Bit hard to do when the Israelis take the best land and most of the
water.

--
Tim

"That excessive Baile ought not to be required nor excessive Fines imposed
nor cruell and unusuall Punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
 
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Tim Streater
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      01-03-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> Chaddy2222 wrote:
> >
> >dorayme wrote:
> >
> >> You expect a government that has respected almost no international
> >> standard (unless it happens to suit them anyway) from 1948 onwards to
> >> take notice of the W3C? You have been watching too many movies, David.
> >> Get real!

> >
> >Yeah. Why would they even bother, they are too busy ignoring what
> >every other Government tells them to do.

>
> Would that be the same "every other Government" that turned away the
> Jewish refugee ships,


Why were these ships going to Palestine?

> forcing them to return to a certain death in Germany


The war was over by then. Get a grip.

>and later leading to the creation of Israel so that they
> would never again be in such a position?


And screw the indigenous population, eh?

--
Tim

"That excessive Baile ought not to be required nor excessive Fines imposed
nor cruell and unusuall Punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
 
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Tim Streater
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-03-2009
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

[yawn deleted]

> There never was a Palestinian state or a Palestinian nation.


So what? Before 1948 there was the British mandate, attacked by lots of
Jewish terrorist gangs, and before that there was the Ottoman Empire.
Point is, there were people living there before Israel was set up. They
were not consulted by the Jews, nor, I'm ashamed to say, by the British.

--
Tim

"That excessive Baile ought not to be required nor excessive Fines imposed
nor cruell and unusuall Punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
 
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Neredbojias
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      01-04-2009
On 03 Jan 2009, Jani <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On 3 Jan., 12:54, Neredbojias <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On 03 Jan 2009, Jani <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> >> > "ass" is more American English
>> >> > "arse" is British

>>
>> >> So what's "aus"? *...Oh, I get it.

>>
>> >> --
>> >> Neredbojiashttp://www.neredbojias.org/http://www.neredbojias.net/
>> >> The road to Heaven is paved with bad intentions.

>>
>> > You mean Austria??? I think they use also "arse":
>> >http://www.monochrom.at/arse-elektronika/

>>
>> Actually, I was wondering if any country used "aus" for "ass" (or
>> "arse") but then I realized that the citizens of any such country
>> would hardly include a bad word in their name for their land.
>>
>> --
>> Neredbojiashttp://www.neredbojias.org/http://www.neredbojias.net/
>> The road to Heaven is paved with bad intentions.

>
> Anyway. The Bush's happiness about the israeli attack in Gaza is his
> end.


Bush's end is at hand, anyway, as the new pres is about to take the
reins.

No, I didn't like Bush; I don't like Republicans in general, but I
don't believe he bears much responsibility for the Middle East mess.
The real problem is this: as long as an embraced religion endorses war
for "holy" reasons and as long as governments use this as a proxy for
righteousness there will not be peace. I'm sure there are a lot of
good muslims but there are unfortunately enough bad ones with power
enough to corrupt world brotherhood and security. Eventually the
situation extant will attenuate, but the cost to the guilty might be
the very existence of their heritage. In the grand scheme of things it
would surely be a minor event.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.org/
http://www.neredbojias.net/
The road to Heaven is paved with bad intentions.
 
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