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Re: If You Think Clean Coal Technology Is The Answer

 
 
ray
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      12-31-2008
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:54:53 -0500, Larry Thong wrote:

> Just ask the folks in Tennessee about it. It seems the dumb bastards
> that thought of "Clean Coal Technology" haven't yet found a way to
> dispose of the millions of tons of solid waste it generates. And to
> think we have a fifty year supply of coal that will break our addiction
> to Middle Eastern oil. I hope that disaster isn't near Spike's home.
>
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27sludge.html>


Well, of course clean coal technology is not "the answer". Solar is also
not "the answer" - wind power also is not "the answer". There is no "the
answer". "The answer" consists of several technologies in different mixes
at different times. What we need right now is to use what we have and
develop other technologies for the future.
 
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mj
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      12-31-2008

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:44:00 -0600, "mj" <lakediver@dd..net> wrote in
> <jQQ6l.10015$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>"ray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
>>> Well, of course clean coal technology is not "the answer". Solar is also
>>> not "the answer" - wind power also is not "the answer". There is no "the
>>> answer". "The answer" consists of several technologies in different
>>> mixes
>>> at different times. What we need right now is to use what we have and
>>> develop other technologies for the future.

>>
>>To bad solar is so expensive. The cost of a system to run my A/C in the
>>summer from solar would be $30,000 installed. I would like to see the
>>cost
>>of solar and wind to a point where each home would take at least half of
>>their power from either.

>
> We're nearly there -- check out Nanosolar.
>

Thanks John. I would be happy to install a solar system if the pay back
wasn't 15 years.


 
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mj
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      12-31-2008

"Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> mj wrote:
>
>> To bad solar is so expensive. The cost of a system to run my A/C in the
>> summer from solar would be $30,000 installed. I would like to see the
>> cost of solar and wind to a point where each home would take at least
>> half of their power from either.

>
> The first step is to reduce your cooling demand through an efficient
> building. For example a recent German building technology uses very
> little energy for heating or cooling.
>
> Is the house shaded with trees to reduce heat loading. Is the roof
> painted to reflect IR? Is the sun side of the house designed to reject
> sun load?
>
> The second step is install a cooling loop using the ground to sink the
> heat. A nearby pool, pond, lake or stream can do wonders for this and
> just takes a little pumping power.
>
> If it's cool enough at night, do you cross ventilate the house? (You're
> in Houston per the IP address, so maybe not...).


lol...... I cross ventilate during most of our winter. As for the rest I am
working on several projects as money is available. My home was built in 71
so there is a lot to be done.
One of several issues here is that most all subdivisions have deed
restrictions which
as I read them do not allow anything on a roof larger than a satellite dish
or that can be seen from the street.
I think this could be changed to accommodate solar system if there were
enough interest.

>



 
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J. Clarke
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      12-31-2008
ray wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:54:53 -0500, Larry Thong wrote:
>
>> Just ask the folks in Tennessee about it. It seems the dumb
>> bastards
>> that thought of "Clean Coal Technology" haven't yet found a way to
>> dispose of the millions of tons of solid waste it generates. And
>> to
>> think we have a fifty year supply of coal that will break our
>> addiction to Middle Eastern oil. I hope that disaster isn't near
>> Spike's home.
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27sludge.html>

>
> Well, of course clean coal technology is not "the answer". Solar is
> also not "the answer" - wind power also is not "the answer". There
> is
> no "the answer". "The answer" consists of several technologies in
> different mixes at different times. What we need right now is to use
> what we have and develop other technologies for the future.


If the problem is greenhouse gases, the fix is not to burn something
whose major combustion product is CO2 and then store the CO2.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


 
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mj
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      01-01-2009

"Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> mj wrote:
>
>> lol...... I cross ventilate during most of our winter. As for the rest I
>> am working on several projects as money is available. My home was built
>> in 71 so there is a lot to be done.
>> One of several issues here is that most all subdivisions have deed
>> restrictions which
>> as I read them do not allow anything on a roof larger than a satellite
>> dish or that can be seen from the street.
>> I think this could be changed to accommodate solar system if there were
>> enough interest.

>
> Well again, the absolute fastest return on solar in a place like Houston
> has got to be solar water heating. It doesn't HAVE to be roof mounted
> (thought that's the easiest). IAC, it mounts flat and quite unobtrusively,
> so I can't see why it would be much different than solar electric panels.
>

My cost to heat water is a *lot* less than the A/C, a lot less.


 
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mj
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      01-02-2009

"Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> mj wrote:
>> "Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
>>> mj wrote:
>>>
>>>> lol...... I cross ventilate during most of our winter. As for the rest
>>>> I am working on several projects as money is available. My home was
>>>> built in 71 so there is a lot to be done.
>>>> One of several issues here is that most all subdivisions have deed
>>>> restrictions which
>>>> as I read them do not allow anything on a roof larger than a satellite
>>>> dish or that can be seen from the street.
>>>> I think this could be changed to accommodate solar system if there were
>>>> enough interest.
>>> Well again, the absolute fastest return on solar in a place like Houston
>>> has got to be solar water heating. It doesn't HAVE to be roof mounted
>>> (thought that's the easiest). IAC, it mounts flat and quite
>>> unobtrusively, so I can't see why it would be much different than solar
>>> electric panels.
>>>

>> My cost to heat water is a *lot* less than the A/C, a lot less.

>
> Exactly why reducing the heat load takes precedence over cooling.
>

Maybe in Canada. Here in Texas A/C 1. used for humidity control and 2. for
cooling.
Also I have found through visiting several solar sites that there is an
optimum operating temperature, I believe about 80 degrees, above which the
current cells began to lose their efficiency. I do need to check the temp.
My biggest issue is that the deed restrictions where I live will not allow a
roof top solar system, trust me if they did I would be heating water.

> As to hot water, why not make it nearly free? I assume you heat water
> with NG, so not only does it cost something (albeit NG prices are low
> right now) but it also emits CO2. (And if heated by electric, then in TX
> it would have a high CO2 component from coal and NG electric plants).
>
> TX (2000)
> 13% nuclear
> 86% coal, lignite and NG.
> 1% solar/wind.
>

Actually Texas uses 72% NG, 19% coal, 6% nuclear and 3% other.
http://www.unt.edu/cedr/PowerDiversification.pdf

Texas is also a fast growing state which, thankfully, has not suffered this
recession to the extent of many of the other states.



> Even if heating water is so cheap, you'd still recover your investment in
> less than 5 years while avoiding CO2 production.


Still takes power to run the pumps either down the power line or solar.


 
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ray
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      01-02-2009

>
> If the problem is greenhouse gases, the fix is not to burn something
> whose major combustion product is CO2 and then store the CO2.
>
> --


I don't think that IS the problem. You may have noticed that the last
couple of years have been cooler rather than warmer - has mainly to do
with sunspot activity.
 
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J. Clarke
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      01-02-2009
ray wrote:
>> If the problem is greenhouse gases, the fix is not to burn
>> something
>> whose major combustion product is CO2 and then store the CO2.
>>
>> --

>
> I don't think that IS the problem. You may have noticed that the
> last
> couple of years have been cooler rather than warmer - has mainly to
> do
> with sunspot activity.


If that's not the problem then the problem is something someone pulled
out of their bums.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


 
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Mr.T
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      01-02-2009

"J. Clarke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> If that's not the problem then the problem is something someone pulled
> out of their bums.


Actually what comes out of cows bums is a far bigger problem.
Chopping down rain forests to raise cattle for "Big Macs" just increases the
problem.

MrT.




 
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mj
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      01-02-2009

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:58:56 -0600, "mj" <lakediver@dd..net> wrote in
> <iFd7l.9284$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>Also I have found through visiting several solar sites that there is an
>>optimum operating temperature, I believe about 80 degrees, above which the
>>current cells began to lose their efficiency.

>
> Where are you getting that? It's just not true.
>
> --

What did I say? " I believe about 80 degrees, above which the
current cells began to lose their efficiency. *I do need to check the temp.*
John IF you are going to edit then include ALL the statement.
As I stated I will find out where I heard or read that and I will post it
here, ok?


 
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