«

"Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
news: ...
> Here
> in Oregon, we are having the coldest winter we have had in over 40
> years.....I haven't heard Al Gore's explanation for that. But there is a
> hell of a lot of hand waving goin' on........

That's why they now call it "climate change" instead of "global warming",
and as you said it's happened many times before in the earths history.
Homo Sapiens wouldn't even exist if it hadn't!

MrT.

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:49587b5e$0$20808$ u
> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
> news: ...
>> Here
>> in Oregon, we are having the coldest winter we have had in over 40
>> years.....I haven't heard Al Gore's explanation for that. But there
>> is a hell of a lot of hand waving goin' on........
>
> That's why they now call it "climate change" instead of "global
> warming", and as you said it's happened many times before in the
> earths history. Homo Sapiens wouldn't even exist if it hadn't!

Which nobody is denying so why bring it up?

In rec.photo.digital Mr.T <MrT@home> wrote:

> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
> news: ...
>> Here
>> in Oregon, we are having the coldest winter we have had in over 40
>> years.....I haven't heard Al Gore's explanation for that. But there is a
>> hell of a lot of hand waving goin' on........

> That's why they now call it "climate change" instead of "global warming",
> and as you said it's happened many times before in the earths history.
> Homo Sapiens wouldn't even exist if it hadn't!

It's not a problem for the planet, which has been through many worse
climate changes before. It probably won't be a problem for the
survival of Homo Sapiens, which has proved capable of surviving in a
hunter gatherer lifestyle from the tropics to the arctic.

It's a problem for our current rather fragile and short sighted human
civilisation and governments. How is a country which made such a mess
of coping with New Orleans being flooded going to cope with New York
under water? How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
going to cope with local water shortages?

--
Chris Malcolm

In message <>, Chris Malcolm
<> writes
>In rec.photo.digital Mr.T <MrT@home> wrote:
>
>> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
>> news: ...
>>> Here
>>> in Oregon, we are having the coldest winter we have had in over 40
>>> years.....I haven't heard Al Gore's explanation for that. But there is a
>>> hell of a lot of hand waving goin' on........
>
>> That's why they now call it "climate change" instead of "global warming",
>> and as you said it's happened many times before in the earths history.
>> Homo Sapiens wouldn't even exist if it hadn't!
>
>It's not a problem for the planet, which has been through many worse
>climate changes before. It probably won't be a problem for the
>survival of Homo Sapiens, which has proved capable of surviving in a
>hunter gatherer lifestyle from the tropics to the arctic.
>
>It's a problem for our current rather fragile and short sighted human
>civilisation and governments. How is a country which made such a mess
>of coping with New Orleans being flooded going to cope with New York
>under water?

Good question. Look at what happened a few years back when there were
power outages in LA and NY.... civil order started to break down in
hours.


>How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
>going to cope with local water shortages?

The rest of the world will cope with those problems as it does now.
There are local rice and water shortages all over the place. They are
not uncommon.

However these disruptions and hic-ups will get more wide spread and more
common. Some countries will be more able to survive than others. Urban
centres are likely to suffer most I think which means the more
industrialised countries. So the US has just changed it's economic
model in the nick of time

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> In rec.photo.digital Mr.T <MrT@home> wrote:
>
>> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
>> news: ...
>>> Here
>>> in Oregon, we are having the coldest winter we have had in over 40
>>> years.....I haven't heard Al Gore's explanation for that. But
>>> there
>>> is a hell of a lot of hand waving goin' on........
>
>> That's why they now call it "climate change" instead of "global
>> warming", and as you said it's happened many times before in the
>> earths history. Homo Sapiens wouldn't even exist if it hadn't!
>
> It's not a problem for the planet, which has been through many worse
> climate changes before. It probably won't be a problem for the
> survival of Homo Sapiens, which has proved capable of surviving in a
> hunter gatherer lifestyle from the tropics to the arctic.
>
> It's a problem for our current rather fragile and short sighted
> human
> civilisation and governments. How is a country which made such a
> mess
> of coping with New Orleans being flooded going to cope with New York
> under water?

The devil in me wants to say "by having a 'good riddance' party". Los
Angeles and DC the same--pity the politicians can't be made to stay
there while it floods though.

But look at the projections. They're talking 2 degrees in the next
100 years. That's not going to melt Antarctica or Greenland and so
the flooding scenario isn't in the cards. They want you to _think_
that it is though.

> How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
> going to cope with local water shortages?

So let's see, there's going to be widespread flooding but there's
going to be a water shortage.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
>
> But look at the projections. They're talking 2 degrees in the next
> 100 years. That's not going to melt Antarctica or Greenland and so
> the flooding scenario isn't in the cards. They want you to _think_
> that it is though.

Er...I don't think you understand what a 2 degree average increase in
100 years would cause.

>> How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
>> going to cope with local water shortages?
>
> So let's see, there's going to be widespread flooding but there's
> going to be a water shortage.

Er...I don't think you understand the difference between flood water and
potable water.

Cynicor wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> But look at the projections. They're talking 2 degrees in the next
>> 100 years. That's not going to melt Antarctica or Greenland and so
>> the flooding scenario isn't in the cards. They want you to _think_
>> that it is though.
>
> Er...I don't think you understand what a 2 degree average increase in
> 100 years would cause.
>
>>> How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
>>> going to cope with local water shortages?
>>
>> So let's see, there's going to be widespread flooding but there's
>> going to be a water shortage.
>
> Er...I don't think you understand the difference between flood water and
> potable water.
Would you publish the statistical analysis that you used to show that
you can detect a 2 degree rise in the temperature of the planet with
about as 100 degree temperature range over the surface of the earth each
day of the year?

In message <>, J. Clarke
<> writes
>Chris Malcolm wrote:
>> In rec.photo.digital Mr.T <MrT@home> wrote:
>>
>>> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
>>> news: ...
>>>> Here
>>>> in Oregon, we are having the coldest winter we have had in over 40
>>>> years.....I haven't heard Al Gore's explanation for that. But
>>>> there
>>>> is a hell of a lot of hand waving goin' on........
>>
>>> That's why they now call it "climate change" instead of "global
>>> warming", and as you said it's happened many times before in the
>>> earths history. Homo Sapiens wouldn't even exist if it hadn't!
>>
>> It's not a problem for the planet, which has been through many worse
>> climate changes before. It probably won't be a problem for the
>> survival of Homo Sapiens, which has proved capable of surviving in a
>> hunter gatherer lifestyle from the tropics to the arctic.
>>
>> It's a problem for our current rather fragile and short sighted
>> human
>> civilisation and governments. How is a country which made such a
>> mess
>> of coping with New Orleans being flooded going to cope with New York
>> under water?
>
>The devil in me wants to say "by having a 'good riddance' party". Los
>Angeles and DC the same--pity the politicians can't be made to stay
>there while it floods though.
>
>But look at the projections. They're talking 2 degrees in the next
>100 years. That's not going to melt Antarctica or Greenland and so
>the flooding scenario isn't in the cards. They want you to _think_
>that it is though.

The ICE caps ARE melting though it is happening. The 2degrees is an
Average figure.

>> How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
>> going to cope with local water shortages?
>
>So let's see, there's going to be widespread flooding but there's
>going to be a water shortage.

That's right. Some areas will be flooded (and have a shortage of
drinking water) Other areas will have droughts

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Keith nuttle wrote:
> Cynicor wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> But look at the projections. They're talking 2 degrees in the next
>>> 100 years. That's not going to melt Antarctica or Greenland and so
>>> the flooding scenario isn't in the cards. They want you to _think_
>>> that it is though.
>>
>> Er...I don't think you understand what a 2 degree average increase in
>> 100 years would cause.
>>
>>>> How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
>>>> going to cope with local water shortages?
>>>
>>> So let's see, there's going to be widespread flooding but there's
>>> going to be a water shortage.
>>
>> Er...I don't think you understand the difference between flood water
>> and potable water.
> Would you publish the statistical analysis that you used to show that
> you can detect a 2 degree rise in the temperature of the planet with
> about as 100 degree temperature range over the surface of the earth each
> day of the year?

Are you actually serious with this statement? You don't believe that
measurements can detect variations in mean temperatures because some
parts of the world are warmer than others? Or have you just never seen
any measurements?

Chris H wrote:
>>
>> But look at the projections. They're talking 2 degrees in the next
>> 100 years. That's not going to melt Antarctica or Greenland and so
>> the flooding scenario isn't in the cards. They want you to _think_
>> that it is though.
>
> The ICE caps ARE melting though it is happening. The 2degrees is an
> Average figure.

Arctic ice is melting a lot faster than Antarctic. But it's a simple
fact that the Arctic ice cover is quickly retreating. Which, in turn,
leads to lessened reflectivity and more heat absorption, which leads to
faster warming.

It's just amazingly specious for people to say "but it's only 20 degrees
there, so 2 degrees isn't going to melt anything."

And no, 2 degrees doesn't cause flooding. It's the effects of the 2
degrees that will cause more frequent "100 year" flooding. If people
don't think that human activity has any effect on habitability, I invite
them to compare maps of southern Louisiana 50 years ago versus today.


>>> How is a world which can't cope with local rice shortages
>>> going to cope with local water shortages?
>>
>> So let's see, there's going to be widespread flooding but there's
>> going to be a water shortage.
>
> That's right. Some areas will be flooded (and have a shortage of
> drinking water) Other areas will have droughts

Other areas will get invasive plants that don't die when there's no
longer a hard frost. And they will lose species that need a frost to
properly germinate the next year.