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Want to see how bad P&S's really are?

 
 
John McWilliams
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      12-30-2008
Rich wrote:

>> I have both a DSLR and a P&S, I use the one that works best for the
>> conditions.


>
> And under what "conditions" would you use the P&S rather than the
> DSLR?


Knock it off will ya, Rich? You're only shadowing the regular pest and a
troll or two. Post something "original", as in copy from dpreview, etc,
o.k.?
 
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nospam
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      12-30-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, John Navas
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:36:47 -0800 (PST), Scott W <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in
> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
> >On Dec 29, 10:39*am, John Navas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and other FZ models). *Digital Photography Review
> >> says, "the actual delay between pressing the button and the shot being
> >> taken is almost instantaneous". *The Panasonic spec is 0.005 second
> >> shutter release time lag (the time between pressing the button on the
> >> camera and the photo being taken).

> >
> >That sounds like the time if the camera is pre-focused. The full
> >autofocus time is more like 0.50 seconds.
> >http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FZ8/FZ8A6.HTM

>
> What I posted is correct.


are you saying that imaging resource is not correct?
 
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Mark Thomas
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      12-30-2008
John Navas wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:52:07 -0500, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> in <291220082052075472%(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, John Navas
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:36:47 -0800 (PST), Scott W <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> wrote in
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 29, 10:39 am, John Navas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and other FZ models). Digital Photography Review
>>>>> says, "the actual delay between pressing the button and the shot being
>>>>> taken is almost instantaneous". The Panasonic spec is 0.005 second
>>>>> shutter release time lag (the time between pressing the button on the
>>>>> camera and the photo being taken).
>>>> That sounds like the time if the camera is pre-focused. The full
>>>> autofocus time is more like 0.50 seconds.
>>>> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FZ8/FZ8A6.HTM
>>> What I posted is correct.

>> are you saying that imaging resource is not correct?

>
> Good guess.
>


It is with great pleasure that I draw attention to John Navas' tactics.
Most would call the following "CHEATING".

Here is what John wrote earlier, now conveniently snipped:
> John Navas wrote:
>> Better compact digital cameras have no AF lag, and perform very well in
>> normal indoor lighting.

That is a LIE. There is NO compact digital camera with "no AF lag".
NONE even have 'negligible' AF lag. There *are* some with negligible
*shutter lag* (ie prefocussed), but that is VERY different.

So John suddenly changed the debate to shutter lag, hoping no-one would
notice:
> John Navas wrote:
>> Charles wrote:
>>> Which ones? I have yet to find any like that. When you are used to a
>>> DSLR the AF lag on compact digital cameras is excruciating.

>>
>> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and other FZ models). Digital Photography Review
>> says, "the actual delay between pressing the button and the shot being
>> taken is almost instantaneous".

Nice try, but most folks here know the difference between shutter lag
and AF lag. The discussion *was* about *AF lag* - John used those words
himself, so there can be no argument on that. But then he started
quoting shutter lag figures - those words by DPReview were very clearly
referring to shutter lag, NOT AF lag.

>> The Panasonic spec is 0.005 second
>> shutter release time lag (the time between pressing the button on the
>> camera and the photo being taken).

Again, this is about *shutter lag* - the FZ8 *shutter lag* is actually
0.07-0.19, depending on mode (that's quite good, but WORSE than the FZ7).

So what is the true AF lag on the FZ8? Somewhere between 0.4 to 0.7..
except DPReview notes: "Focus speed at the long end of the zoom varies
quite widely - from 0.4 to 1.0 seconds". These figures are verifiable
at multiple sources.

So, these cameras are at least twice as slow as the worst dslr.


John has me in his 'twit filter' (this being the guy who doesn't like
others using insults...) so he won't see this of course.
 
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Mark Thomas
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      12-30-2008
John Navas wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:42:14 -0500, "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> You are now verging on pathetic. DxO is wrong, Imaging Resource is wrong,
>> Dpreveiw is wrong. But you're not?

>
> DPReview is quite correct:
>
> "the actual delay between pressing the button
> and the shot being taken is almost instantaneous"
>
> Case closed.
>

No, it isn't. The discussion was about af lag. As he had obviously
lost that argument, John sneakily tried to change it to shutter lag, and
that DPReview quote is about shutter lag.

See my previous post.

John is trying to cheat. Again.
 
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SneakyP
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      12-30-2008
John Navas <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news(E-Mail Removed):

> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:21:24 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <Ey86l.1247$z%.60@edtnps82>:
>
>>"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:12:51 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>> <TN56l.1163$z%.65@edtnps82>:
>>>
>>>>"Rich" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>news:(E-Mail Removed)
>>>>m...
>>>>> Check out DXO tests. Compare the current "flagship" of P&S's,
>>>>> Panasonic LX3 against ANY DSLR, even ancient 1st generation
>>>>> models. They all beat it when it comes to image quality. Now, do
>>>>> you really want to blow $500.00 on that silly, overpriced toy when
>>>>> you can get any number of entry-level DSLRs for less money?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...tabase/Panason
>>>>> ic
>>>>
>>>>The funny thing here, Rich, is that P&S sales will continue to go
>>>>through the roof regardless of your opinion simply because P&S's fit
>>>>in your pocket...
>>>
>>> And because they consistently produce good to very good images, with
>>> the best consistently producing excellent images.

>
>>At an affordable price...

>
> True, and a decisive factor to some, but others would choose them even
> at the same price because of their other advantages (size, weight,
> handling, zoom range, lens speed, depth of field, etc).
>
> "If the only tool you have is a hammer,
> you will see every problem as a nail."
> -Abraham Maslow
> True for both sides of the divide.
>
> There is no one best tool for all jobs.
>
> And "different stokes for different folks."
>


Affordable price should be stated as "more reasonable price".
I do not know of anyone who thinks that DSLRs are priced at what they
think they should be worth.

$7,000 just sounds like someone smoked a few fatties.
They're high in more than one way.


--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)
 
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SneakyP
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-30-2008
Galen Howes <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:54:50 -0800 (PST), Rich <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>Check out DXO tests. Compare the current "flagship" of P&S's,
>>Panasonic LX3 against ANY DSLR, even ancient 1st generation models.
>>They all beat it when it comes to image quality. Now, do you really
>>want to blow $500.00 on that silly, overpriced toy when you can get
>>any number of entry-level DSLRs for less money?
>>
>>http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...base/Panasonic

>
> Oh, the poor troll, just walked into fast moving traffic. Still not
> realizing that all of DxO's tests have been proved in error by many
> people. DxO skews their results to sell their way-overpriced crap
> software to those stupid enough to easily part with their money, i.e.
> blind DSLR worshippers.
>
> Catch up.
>
> Thread dead.
>
> Nothing else to see here.
>
> Just one dead troll.
>
> Someone call the road-kill cleanup crew before it starts to stink up
> the place even more than it already has.


Not one time did I see a P&S (or compact, as some of you are used to
seeing) being compared at all with those DSLR cameras. IS there a site
that will do that?



--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)
 
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nospam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-30-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, John Navas
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> >> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and other FZ models). *Digital Photography Review
> >> >> says, "the actual delay between pressing the button and the shot being
> >> >> taken is almost instantaneous". *The Panasonic spec is 0.005 second
> >> >> shutter release time lag (the time between pressing the button on the
> >> >> camera and the photo being taken).
> >> >
> >> >That sounds like the time if the camera is pre-focused. The full
> >> >autofocus time is more like 0.50 seconds.
> >> >http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FZ8/FZ8A6.HTM
> >>
> >> What I posted is correct.

> >
> >are you saying that imaging resource is not correct?

>
> Good guess.


well that's a bold claim. on what basis is imaging resource wrong?
 
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nospam
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-30-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, John Navas
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >>>> What I posted is correct.
> >>>
> >>>are you saying that imaging resource is not correct?
> >>
> >> Good guess.

> >
> >You are now verging on pathetic. DxO is wrong, Imaging Resource is wrong,
> >Dpreveiw is wrong. But you're not?

>
> DPReview is quite correct:
>
> "the actual delay between pressing the button
> and the shot being taken is almost instantaneous"
>
> Case closed.


'almost instantaneous' does not contradict anything imaging resource
has stated.
 
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Dudley Hanks
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-30-2008

"Ron Hunter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> Dudley Hanks wrote:
>> "Rich" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Check out DXO tests. Compare the current "flagship" of P&S's,
>>> Panasonic LX3 against ANY DSLR, even ancient 1st generation models.
>>> They all beat it when it comes to image quality. Now, do you really
>>> want to blow $500.00 on that silly, overpriced toy when you can get
>>> any number of entry-level DSLRs for less money?
>>>
>>> http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...base/Panasonic
>>>

>>
>> The funny thing here, Rich, is that P&S sales will continue to go through
>> the roof regardless of your opinion simply because P&S's fit in your
>> pocket...
>>
>> Take Care,
>> Dudley
>>
>>

> The camera you have in your pocket always takes better pictures than the
> one sitting on the shelf at home. There is no contest between a poor
> image, and no image at all.


That's why I always have a camera in my pocket / fanny pack...

I love my DSLR (and film SLR for that matter), but it's tough packing one
around and handling a shepherd at the same time, so my pocket cams take a
lot more pics than their more versatile cousins.

Take Care,
Dudley


 
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tony cooper
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      12-30-2008
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:32:18 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>That's why I always have a camera in my pocket / fanny pack...
>


That will give the UK readers in this group a shock.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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