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Blinky the Shark
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      12-24-2008
Allen wrote:

> David J Taylor wrote:
>> Allen wrote:
>> Vista vs. the rest?
>>> Well, for a start:
>>> Totally non-intuitive, in many ways, compared to Win XP and 98.

>>
>> Yes, I agree it's different. I've used it long enough now to find that
>> there are quite a lot of aspects I like, but it's not without its
>> learning curve. Did you find a similar problem moving from 98 to XP?
>>
>>> Too much "security" in home versions. I don't want to fool with admin
>>> rights.

>>
>> Accepted, but I think that's a positive point. not a negative one. We'll
>> have to agree to disagree here.
>>
>>> I have had to use the Restore feature perhaps 6 times since July; I
>>> never had to use it with XP.

>>
>> That's more times than I would expect. Is that on the same hardware?

> Yes.
>>
>>> Right now, although everything seems to be in place for WMP, it won't
>>> run; to restore it, I'm told by many knowledgeable people that it is
>>> necessary to reinstall Vista, as there isn't a repair facility.

>>
>> You must have tried the System File Checker?
>>
>> http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/2231/..._file_checker/

> Tried it. After a few minutes I went to Task Manager and got a "Not
> Responding" message for it.
>>
>> I have also seen issues with WMP, but they have been caused by 3rd party
>> software. Removing the bad software restores full function.
>>
>>> These are a few of my issues; you can find tens of thousands of gripes
>>> in Google. And, if it's so damn good, why does MS keep extending XP
>>> support? As I said in my post, I've had 54 years of dealing with
>>> computers, and I've not seen anything to compare with it. A huge step
>>> backward for MS
>>> in my (and others') opinion. I've known and used IBM 1401 AL, 360/370
>>> AL, Fortran, IBM PL/1, COBOL, IBM Series I with Waterloo OS, CPM, Wang
>>> Basic and close to a dozen other Basics, most versions of MS software
>>> for PCs, both DOS and Windows, also a little Pascal and a few 4GLs.
>>> I've been around the block a few times with computers. Allen

>>
>> Similar experience here, Allen, starting with building computers at
>> school in the 1960s.
>>
>> It does seem that Vista hasn't been as successful as some might have
>> hoped, but I do think that it doesn't deserve all the bad press it's
>> had. Windows 7 will be based on Vista, I understand, so it will give
>> folk a breathing space in UI changes, and perhaps allow some of the
>> tardier software and hardware vendors chance to catch up. I suspect
>> that had Vista simply been XP with the security enhancements, people
>> would still have complained.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David

> I think we'd better agree that Vista works for some, but there are huge
> numbers of people who hate it. It certainly is not MS's finest hour. They
> keep supporting XP and are rushing 7 through (perhaps too fast). That
> tells me something.


That something *and* this something: another bad version coming.

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

 
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David J Taylor
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      12-24-2008
Allen wrote:
[]
> I think we'd better agree that Vista works for some, but there are
> huge numbers of people who hate it. It certainly is not MS's finest
> hour. They keep supporting XP and are rushing 7 through (perhaps too
> fast). That tells me something.


OK ... although it may be more about poor marketing, and poor timing (i.e.
releasing the OS before drivers and software were completely ready), than
about Vista itself. Let's hope any such mistakes are not repeated.

David

 
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David J Taylor
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      12-24-2008
Dave Cohen wrote:
[]
> You're asking the wrong question. The correct question is what is
> there in Vista but missing in winxp that I should be forced to
> replace my current scanner, maybe my printer (not sure about that)
> and god knows what apps.


Ask your printer and scanner supplier where their Vista drivers are.

What applications do you need to replace? All my photo programs just
continue to work, with the CD-writing software Nero-6 (dating from
2004-2005?) being the only one which doesn't. As it happens, there is a
free replacement (InfraRecorder) which works perfectly.

> I'm told it's bloated. I'm not so much
> concerned with the extra hp needed if I'm getting a new machine, but
> a substantial upgrade should give me something substantial, maybe it
> does, but if it does nobody is telling me what it is.


If XP works for you, why change to Vista? It's not something I would
recommend.

> So I installed Linux as a possible alternative but that doesn't really
> help with the apps I like to use, plus Ubuntu is unstable on my
> machine, but my interest is if I have to get a new machine so that
> wouldn't be an issue.
> Dave Cohen


If you keep your old PC when you get your new one, you may still be able
to print through that PC if you can't through the Vista one.

But today, if you have a working XP PC I see no reason for you to update
to Vista, and I think that's been my advice all along.

Cheers,
David

 
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David J Taylor
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      12-24-2008
HEMI-Powered wrote:
[]
> I just heard something really interesting about Vista. My nephew
> claims he's read that MS is stopping sales of Vista entirely next
> spring and launching yet another all-new O/S!


Windows 7 is in development, and early beta right now.

> If true, the reason
> appears to be that so much legacy software, including drivers,
> cannot run because Vista locks out access to most of the hardware
> and the system files. I suppose doing this was a noble gesture to
> prevent the dummies out their from hosing themselves, but for most
> people, they rely only on their SW and utilities doing the
> dangerous things. It'll be interesting, again if this is at all
> true, to see what the new O/S will be, how stable or how buggy IT
> is, and how long it takes for both SW developers and HW
> manufacturers to adapt to it.


AIUI, it is based on Vista so that anything which works today will
continue to work. It may be that there's a setting to turn down the
security in Vista to allow older drivers to work - a let the customer take
the risk switch!

It's claimed that many, if not most, of the bugs are in the 3rd-party
software including drivers, rather than in Windows itself. I don't
disbelieve that.

Cheers,
David

 
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J. Clarke
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      12-24-2008
David J Taylor wrote:
> HEMI-Powered wrote:
> []
>> I just heard something really interesting about Vista. My nephew
>> claims he's read that MS is stopping sales of Vista entirely next
>> spring and launching yet another all-new O/S!

>
> Windows 7 is in development, and early beta right now.


It's not really news--the plan has been a new release every three
years or so.

>> If true, the reason
>> appears to be that so much legacy software, including drivers,
>> cannot run because Vista locks out access to most of the hardware
>> and the system files. I suppose doing this was a noble gesture to
>> prevent the dummies out their from hosing themselves, but for most
>> people, they rely only on their SW and utilities doing the
>> dangerous things. It'll be interesting, again if this is at all
>> true, to see what the new O/S will be, how stable or how buggy IT
>> is, and how long it takes for both SW developers and HW
>> manufacturers to adapt to it.

>
> AIUI, it is based on Vista so that anything which works today will
> continue to work. It may be that there's a setting to turn down the
> security in Vista to allow older drivers to work - a let the
> customer
> take the risk switch!
>
> It's claimed that many, if not most, of the bugs are in the
> 3rd-party
> software including drivers, rather than in Windows itself. I don't
> disbelieve that.


People expecting the follow-on to Vista to allow stuff that doesn't
run on Vista to run are deluding themselves. Most of the
"compatibility" issues are security related--I have an HP printer that
doesn't work with Vista because HP is too cheap or lazy to release a
signed driver for it. I have quite a bit of stuff that doesn't run as
installed but once I set the security on it properly it goes fine.
There's some though that just plain insists on running under an
administrator account.

Now, people will say that they don't see any need for user accounts on
a personal machine, and that's fine if you're willing to risk it.
Running on a non-privileged account does far more for security than
all the antivirus programs and firewall simulators in the world.

Incidentally, Windows 2000 and XP have most of the same security
features as Vista. The big difference is that in 2000 and XP the OS
installs with most of it turned off, Vista installs with most of it
turned on.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


 
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Dudley Hanks
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      12-24-2008

"ASAAR" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:00:29 GMT, Dudley Hanks wrote:
>
>> Regarding symtoms, there's not much I can say. If I format the card
>> in-camera and put it in a card reader (I currently use two different
>> readers), the computer doesn't recognize the format. An error window
>> pops
>> up asking me if I want to format the card, so the operating system knows
>> something is there, it just doesn't recognize the format.

>
> Although you're using two card readers, they may both have similar
> incompatibilities. Several years ago when I got a newer type of xD
> card, my readers also reported the same errors. Several months
> later I saw an updated version of one of my readers in Staples,
> bought it and the cards suddenly became readable. How old are your
> card readers?
>
>
>> On the flip side, if I format the card in a reader attached to the
>> computer,
>> it will work just fine in the camera, for a short time. Then, the card
>> fails, and neither the computer or the camera can do anything with the
>> dead
>> card. They won't reformat. But, as noted above, the computer knows a
>> card
>> is there; it just can't reformat it. Sorry, it's been a few months
>> since
>> the last card died, so I forget the exact error message I get if I try to
>> reformat. It was pretty generic though, something like: Error accessing
>> (writing to?) removable disk. Format halted..."

>
> There are two things you can try if you still have those cards.
> Years ago I used Microsoft's DEBUG.EXE to write directly to floppies
> and hard drives, allowing boot records and partition tables to be
> wiped out or modified. This program is still supplied with XP (it's
> in my Windows\System32 directory. To start it create a DOS window
> and type "DEBUG" followed by the <Enter> key. It should load
> instantly and give you a "-" prompt. Now type "?" <Enter> and
> you'll see a list of DEBUG's commands. Note that "Q" <Enter> is
> used to quit/exit debug.
>
> Another thing you could try is the Control Panel's Administrative
> Tools. Double click "Computer Management" followed by Disk
> Management (in Storage). Maximize the window and you should see the
> flash card listed as one of the drives. Select it by clicking on
> the large portion on the right, not the left side. Then right click
> it and see if it offers a Delete Partition option. When I tried
> this with my SD card, the option was unavailable (grayed out). If
> you're lucky, this option may be available. If it is, delete the
> partition, recreate it, and then reformat it. If you reformat it
> with the computer, reformat it again in the camera before taking
> more pictures. If Disk Management won't allow you to delete the
> partition, there may be some free "disk" utilities that will. There
> are commercial apps that may work such as Partition Magic, and
> possibly System Commander which says that it can do partitioning for
> different OS's. But don't buy one unless someone that uses it can
> confirm that it'll work with flash cards in readers. Good,
> compatible readers, that is . . .
>
>


I chucked the old cards when they died. But, I'm currently running both a
card formatted in the XSi and one done in the computer. If this computer
formatted card dies, I'll try these tips out.

I haven't used debug in years, but that's a good idea. I think I'll use it
to check out the two cards I'm testing.

Thanks for the suggestions.

As for the card readers, one is built into my laptop and is about three
years old. The other is only about 6 months old and is a USB model. I
picked it up because the built-in reader can't work with CF cards.

Take Care,
Dudley


 
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David J Taylor
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      12-24-2008
HEMI-Powered wrote:
[]
> Sorry, but if it is even minorly based on Vista, I want NO part of
> it. I am NOT in the business of beta testing with my Visa card and
> while I understand that you and many others say they've seen no
> problems, I have many friends who are so angry at it's complete
> inability to run certain key applications or certain legacy
> hardware devices that they are paying extra to have XP retrofitted
> onto new PCs.


If people want ten year old devices to be supported they may either need
to find a device manufacturer who takes support seriously, or stick with
their ten-year-old OS. I mean, there has to come a limit somewhere,
doesn't there, as to how long it's reasonable to expect support for a
device, and at the same time expect to pay the minimum up-front cost for
that device. Would one really expect all OSes back to whatever, to be
retro-fitted for support for the latest USB devices, wireless networking,
iPods, SATA disks, Blu-ray or whatever? At least now, PCs are
sufficiently powerful that you can run the older OS in a virtual machine,
and keep some of the older applications running.

> Microsoft needs to take a fresh page look at it's O/S direction and
> get it through their think heads that many/most people have the
> romantic view that computers are to do useful work for THEM and NOT
> to play a hobbyist's game of "will this new bug fix really make it
> work this time?" In any event, I would NEVER buy any all-new O/S
> until at least the first SP.


I quite agree that for production work, waiting for SP1 is an excellent
policy. However, that isn't a luxury which software developers can
afford!

>> It's claimed that many, if not most, of the bugs are in the
>> 3rd-party software including drivers, rather than in Windows
>> itself. I don't disbelieve that.
>>

> If people believe that, I have some ocean front property to sell
> them in Arizona! Windows by far is THE #1 reason for slowdowns of
> even fast PCs and the minor or catastrophic failure of hundreds of
> apps, utilities, and HW drivers to work rendering it useless to
> their users.
>
> My comments aren't in any way a refutement of your opinion or
> experience, David. They're only a statement of MY opinion.
>
> Cheers, and enjoy your Christmas!


I appreciate that, Jerry, but you do have to ask: if devices from
manufacturer <A> and application <B> can work successfully across multiple
versions of Windows, who don't devices from manufacturer <X> or
application <Y>?

Oh, and talking of slowdowns, one cause of this is the unwanted "demo"
applications pre-loaded by Dell, Compaq, HP and the rest. On the PCs I
have, I typically reformat the HD and install the vanilla OS as the first
step. The you have all the stuff which users (or their family) download
and never clean out properly...

Cheers,
David

 
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Dudley Hanks
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      12-24-2008

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:00:29 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in <NO84l.199$z%.29@edtnps82>:
>
>>Regarding symtoms, there's not much I can say. If I format the card
>>in-camera and put it in a card reader (I currently use two different
>>readers), the computer doesn't recognize the format. An error window pops
>>up asking me if I want to format the card, so the operating system knows
>>something is there, it just doesn't recognize the format.
>>
>>On the flip side, if I format the card in a reader attached to the
>>computer,
>>it will work just fine in the camera, for a short time. Then, the card
>>fails, and neither the computer or the camera can do anything with the
>>dead
>>card. They won't reformat. But, as noted above, the computer knows a
>>card
>>is there; it just can't reformat it. Sorry, it's been a few months since
>>the last card died, so I forget the exact error message I get if I try to
>>reformat. It was pretty generic though, something like: Error accessing
>>(writing to?) removable disk. Format halted..."

>
> I've only seen such problems with defective Flash memory.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> John



That's a definite possibility, John.

As I mentioned before, it only happened a couple of times before I quit
formatting in the reader. I didn't keep track of the cards (I might have
bought them at the same time from a bad batch), and it could be all a
coincidence. I should have checked it out more thoroughly, but I didn't
have a compelling reason to risk killing more cards.

Now, the problem with copying RAW files is prodding me to investigate
further. I either have to find out if the computer formatted cards are,
indeed, screwing up in-camera, or if there is a way to work around the Canon
device driver responsible for automatically converting the RAW's to JPG's.

This should be fun ...

Take Care,
Dudley



 
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David J Taylor
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      12-24-2008
Dudley Hanks wrote:
[]
> As I mentioned before, it only happened a couple of times before I
> quit formatting in the reader. I didn't keep track of the cards (I
> might have bought them at the same time from a bad batch), and it
> could be all a coincidence. I should have checked it out more
> thoroughly, but I didn't have a compelling reason to risk killing
> more cards.
> Now, the problem with copying RAW files is prodding me to investigate
> further. I either have to find out if the computer formatted cards
> are, indeed, screwing up in-camera, or if there is a way to work
> around the Canon device driver responsible for automatically
> converting the RAW's to JPG's.
> This should be fun ...
>
> Take Care,
> Dudley


Dudley, what type and size of cards are these? I would normally recommend
/only/ formatting in the camera.

Cheers,
David

 
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Dave Cohen
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      12-24-2008
David J Taylor wrote:
> Dave Cohen wrote:
> []
>> You're asking the wrong question. The correct question is what is
>> there in Vista but missing in winxp that I should be forced to
>> replace my current scanner, maybe my printer (not sure about that)
>> and god knows what apps.

>
> Ask your printer and scanner supplier where their Vista drivers are.
>
> What applications do you need to replace? All my photo programs just
> continue to work, with the CD-writing software Nero-6 (dating from
> 2004-2005?) being the only one which doesn't. As it happens, there is a
> free replacement (InfraRecorder) which works perfectly.
>
>> I'm told it's bloated. I'm not so much
>> concerned with the extra hp needed if I'm getting a new machine, but
>> a substantial upgrade should give me something substantial, maybe it
>> does, but if it does nobody is telling me what it is.

>
> If XP works for you, why change to Vista? It's not something I would
> recommend.
>
>> So I installed Linux as a possible alternative but that doesn't really
>> help with the apps I like to use, plus Ubuntu is unstable on my
>> machine, but my interest is if I have to get a new machine so that
>> wouldn't be an issue.
>> Dave Cohen

>
> If you keep your old PC when you get your new one, you may still be able
> to print through that PC if you can't through the Vista one.
>
> But today, if you have a working XP PC I see no reason for you to update
> to Vista, and I think that's been my advice all along.
>
> Cheers,
> David

Thanks for replying Dave. I should have made myself more clear, my
concern is if my current machine gives up the ghost I'll most likely be
forced into getting a new machine which will have Vista. Of course, by
then it may have windows 7. Actually, a friend to whom I give some
computer support will probably be getting a new machine in the spring so
I'll be able to see for myself. We've strayed a long way from card
readers, sorry about that.
Dave Cohen
 
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