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Sometimes it's Just Really Sad to Watch People with P&S Cameras

 
 
SMS
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      12-17-2008
Tonight I was at an orchestra performance at my daughter's high school.
I took a bunch of photographs of the orchestra, including some close ups
of my daughter with the 300mm telephoto. Sitting in front of me was a
man with a small Canon P&S camera. He was zooming in as close as he
could holding the camera far out in front of him because it had no
viewfinder. I could see every photo he took on the LCD, and it was just
a bunch of dark, with the faces unrecognizable. We were far too far back
for his tiny flash to have any effect at all, but the stage was well lit.

I found that I got better results using manual focus, something that's
rarely necessary. I also found another good feature of the SLR, it makes
a very good monocular!
 
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Paul Heslop
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      12-17-2008
SMS wrote:
>
> Tonight I was at an orchestra performance at my daughter's high school.
> I took a bunch of photographs of the orchestra, including some close ups
> of my daughter with the 300mm telephoto. Sitting in front of me was a
> man with a small Canon P&S camera. He was zooming in as close as he
> could holding the camera far out in front of him because it had no
> viewfinder. I could see every photo he took on the LCD, and it was just
> a bunch of dark, with the faces unrecognizable. We were far too far back
> for his tiny flash to have any effect at all, but the stage was well lit.
>
> I found that I got better results using manual focus, something that's
> rarely necessary. I also found another good feature of the SLR, it makes
> a very good monocular!


I have to say that I don't have the cash for slr and have two quite
old olympus p&s. Yes, there are many shortcomings but sometimes what
apperars to be dark on the screen comes out quite well on the camera
itself. Obviously it would be nice to have all the right equipment,
but hey, you make the most of what you have.

--
Paul (We won't die of devotion)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
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David J Taylor
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      12-17-2008
Stephen Bishop wrote:
[]
> The fact is, at school concerts, the people who hold up their p&s
> cameras with all the beeping and flashing are every bit as annoying as
> the ones who use their big dslrs. Whatever camera you have, you
> should learn to use it as stealthy as possible.


The fact is, that all those cameras should be left outside or in the
handbag or pocket, and people should just sit back and enjoy the concert.
Let the school have either video or stills folk doing the job properly,
discreetly, and make a few extra pennies by selling the DVD after the
concert....

David

 
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Cynicor
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      12-17-2008
Nucular Reaction wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:25:26 -0800, SMS <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> Tonight I was at an orchestra performance at my daughter's high school.
>> I took a bunch of photographs of the orchestra, including some close ups
>> of my daughter with the 300mm telephoto. Sitting in front of me was a
>> man with a small Canon P&S camera. He was zooming in as close as he
>> could holding the camera far out in front of him because it had no
>> viewfinder. I could see every photo he took on the LCD, and it was just
>> a bunch of dark, with the faces unrecognizable. We were far too far back
>> for his tiny flash to have any effect at all, but the stage was well lit.
>>
>> I found that I got better results using manual focus, something that's
>> rarely necessary. I also found another good feature of the SLR, it makes
>> a very good monocular!

>
> Does it make you feel less inadequate to make fun of people?


I can't speak for him, but it definitely makes me feel better about myself.
 
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Ofnuts
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      12-17-2008
John Navas wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:25:26 -0800, SMS <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in <8X02l.14380$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>> Tonight I was at an orchestra performance at my daughter's high school.
>> I took a bunch of photographs of the orchestra, including some close ups
>> of my daughter with the 300mm telephoto. Sitting in front of me was a
>> man with a small Canon P&S camera. He was zooming in as close as he
>> could holding the camera far out in front of him because it had no
>> viewfinder. I could see every photo he took on the LCD, and it was just
>> a bunch of dark, with the faces unrecognizable. We were far too far back
>> for his tiny flash to have any effect at all, but the stage was well lit.

>
> What's really sad is how little experience you have with good compact
> cameras, preferring instead to put down straw men like this. My compact
> Panasonic FZ8 beats your bulky and obtrusive 300 mm lens with its faster
> stabilized Leica-branded 432 mm super-zoom.


Yes, but I'd like to see the pics you get. Likely noisy, and with a
blurry orchestra personnel on a sharp stage. Image stabilization doesn't
slow time. And lens speed isn't everything. The FZ8 zoom is one-half
f-stop faster than the Canon 300mm (3.3 vs 4)(or even one and half if
the 300mm is really the 75-300mm f/4-5.6 zoom)(I'll ignore the 300mm
f/2.8 L). On the other hand, the FZ8 is really restricted to ISO 100
(200 for the less sensitive people) because at higher sensitivities the
pictures are crap, while the Canon low-end DSLRs can produce very nice
pictures at ISO 800. So the Canon will always have an advantage, for
one-half f-stop to 4 or more, depending on lens used and acceptabilty of
noisy pictures.

>> I found that I got better results using manual focus, something that's
>> rarely necessary.

>
> Auto focus in such conditions is no problem with the FZ8.


Yes, the camera eventually focuses, but the music may have stopped
first. The FZ8 AF will get you very sharp pictures of... snails.

> I could use my FZ8, but I'd rather use my good binoculars.


Not with the EVF, IMHO

This said, I do agree with you that the original post was entirely
avoidable, and that there could have been someone in the back with an
even better camera and bigger lens thinking "Hey, look at that prick
with the Canon".

--
Bertrand, FZ8 owner
 
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SMS
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      12-17-2008
Stephen Bishop wrote:

> No, you're supposed to say "Dear Resident-Troll." Remember?


Ah, the stuff you miss when you have a good filter!

Seriously though, taking photographs during the performance would be in
bad taste because the flash disturbs the performers. Of course that
didn't stop the moron in front of me, who continued to take flash
pictures while they were playing, and still didn't get anything usable
because of the low light and the wimpy flash. At least no one's cell
phone rang!

All my pictures were before the performance, and between pieces, since I
had to use the flash, and the shutter noise would have disturbed the
people around me. That's one other thing I've noticed about D-SLR users,
they tend to be much more considerate about when they use their cameras,
they don't run around annoying other people at public events. I think it
comes from learning how to be a photographer, rather than just running
around taking snapshots.
 
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David J Taylor
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      12-17-2008
John Navas wrote:
[]
> I personally think it's better to keep parents happy by letting them
> take pictures of their own kids as long as they do their best not to
> interfere with other parents. That's why they're there. They've
> already heard their kids ad nauseam. The usual pro does crappy
> work at a high price, and often fails to get what the parent wants.
> One of my favorite videos of my daughter on her sax is a good case in
> point.


Perhaps school concerts are different, but if I attended an amateur
performance of something which was spoiled, for me, by photography of any
sort. I would be asking for my money back. If you /must/ attend a school
concert, perhaps allowing your photography is some sort of compensation
for having to suffer the performance! <G>

David

 
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-hh
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      12-17-2008
SMS <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> That's one other thing I've noticed about D-SLR users,
> they tend to be much more considerate about when
> they use their cameras, they don't run around annoying
> other people at public events.


Unfortunately, Nikon's current marketing campaigns with Ashton Kutcher
is setting a bad example in both camera etiquette, as well as for
chimping after every shot.

The other unfortunate reality is that the use of the camera for
chimping and immediate-gratificational display is a motivation behind
the ever-increasing LCD display sizes, even when they come at the
price of deleted features, such as the optical viewfinder, articulated
LCD screen, compromised ergonomics of controls, etc, etc.


-hh
 
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SMS
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      12-17-2008
-hh wrote:
> SMS <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> That's one other thing I've noticed about D-SLR users,
>> they tend to be much more considerate about when
>> they use their cameras, they don't run around annoying
>> other people at public events.

>
> Unfortunately, Nikon's current marketing campaigns with Ashton Kutcher
> is setting a bad example in both camera etiquette, as well as for
> chimping after every shot.


Yeah, well people would act like that even without those ads.

> The other unfortunate reality is that the use of the camera for
> chimping and immediate-gratificational display is a motivation behind
> the ever-increasing LCD display sizes, even when they come at the
> price of deleted features, such as the optical viewfinder, articulated
> LCD screen, compromised ergonomics of controls, etc, etc.


Yes, for many, it's the only way they ever look at their photos.
 
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Pete D
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      12-17-2008

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:49:02 +0100, Ofnuts <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in <4948f53d$0$20042$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>John Navas wrote:

>
>>> What's really sad is how little experience you have with good compact
>>> cameras, preferring instead to put down straw men like this. My compact
>>> Panasonic FZ8 beats your bulky and obtrusive 300 mm lens with its faster
>>> stabilized Leica-branded 432 mm super-zoom.

>
> Again, that was intended to be a sly dig, not a silly brag.
>
>>Yes, but I'd like to see the pics you get. Likely noisy, and with a
>>blurry orchestra personnel on a sharp stage. Image stabilization doesn't
>>slow time.

>
> Depends -- stages are often pretty brightly lit. Regardless, I keep ISO
> down, use Neat Image in post processing, and the results are excellent.
>
>>And lens speed isn't everything. The FZ8 zoom is one-half
>>f-stop faster than the Canon 300mm (3.3 vs 4)(or even one and half if
>>the 300mm is really the 75-300mm f/4-5.6 zoom)(I'll ignore the 300mm
>>f/2.8 L).

>
> I get a full stop with my FZ20, which is f/2.8 throughout its zoom
> range, and the Canon has to be stopped down 1-2 stops for comparable
> sharpness.
>
>>On the other hand, the FZ8 is really restricted to ISO 100
>>(200 for the less sensitive people) because at higher sensitivities the
>>pictures are crap,

>
> With Neat Image I get excellent results at ISO 200, all I usually need,
> but still get good results even at ISO 400.
>
>>while the Canon low-end DSLRs can produce very nice
>>pictures at ISO 800. So the Canon will always have an advantage, for
>>one-half f-stop to 4 or more, depending on lens used and acceptabilty of
>>noisy pictures.

>
> In practice the difference between what dSLR people can actually afford
> and my inexpensive compact super-zooms, for stage images of comparable
> sharpness, tends to be roughly even, with my lens advantage offsetting
> the dSLR ISO advantage.
>
>>> Auto focus in such conditions is no problem with the FZ8.

>>
>>Yes, the camera eventually focuses, but the music may have stopped
>>first. The FZ8 AF will get you very sharp pictures of... snails.

>
> High-speed 1- and 3-spot autofocus (not the default, must be configured
> by menu) is actually fast and accurate even in lower light. Plus I have
> pre-focus and manual focus.
>
>>> I could use my FZ8, but I'd rather use my good binoculars.

>>
>>Not with the EVF, IMHO


Hey John,

How about you post some of these shots you have taken, last ones you possted
were so noisy they were a complete waste of time, lets see if you have
improved?


 
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