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Aren't rechargeables for high current applications?

 
 
J. Clarke
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      12-07-2008
Phil Allison wrote:
> "John Dope Head "
>
>
>>> ** Devices that have user replaceable AA cells cannot display "
>>> remaining power" -

>>
>> In fact they do display an estimation,

>
>
> ** Complete *******s.


Are you saying that his statement is *******s or that the quality of
the estimation is *******s? If the latter I'm inclined to agree with
you.
>
>
>
> ..... Phil


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


 
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Phil Allison
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      12-07-2008

"J. Clarke"
> Phil Allison wrote:
>> "John Dope Head "

>
>>
>>>> ** Devices that have user replaceable AA cells cannot display "
>>>> remaining power" -
>>>
>>> In fact they do display an estimation,

>>
>>
>> ** Complete *******s.

>
> Are you saying that his statement is *******s or that the quality of
> the estimation is *******s?



** The falsehood is that a battrey voltage display shows (or even
approximates) remaining capacity.

Remember, we are considering only user replaceable AA cells - so AA cells
of any type, condition or state of charge can be fitted to the device at
whim.



...... Phil




 
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John Doe
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      12-07-2008
"Phil Allison" <philallison tpg.com.au> wrote:
> "J. Clarke"
>> Phil Allison wrote:
>>> "John Dope Head "


>>>>> ** Devices that have user replaceable AA cells cannot display
>>>>> " remaining power" -
>>>>
>>>> In fact they do display an estimation,


>>> ** Complete *******s.

>>
>> Are you saying that his statement is *******s or that the quality
>> of the estimation is *******s?


> ** The falsehood is that a battrey voltage display shows (or even
> approximates) remaining capacity.


But seriously, Alice.
If you aren't Rod Speed, you must have come from the same parents.









>
>
>
> ..... Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Path: nlpi102-int.nbdc.sbc.com!flph199.ffdc.sbc.com!prodigy.com! flph200.ffdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!newshub.sdsu.edu! feeder.erje.net!news-1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: "Phil Allison" <philallison tpg.com.au>
> Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital,sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: Aren't rechargeables for high current applications?
> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:48 +1100
> Lines: 32
> Message-ID: <6q0tirFaa8jlU1 mid.individual.net>
> References: <Dx%Zk.13030$Ws1.9515 nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com> <pan.2008.12.05.20.34.07.572106 example.net> <ghc7l1$re5$1 news.motzarella.org> <hhmo06-php.ln1 radagast.org> <zlk_k.8155$D32.2008 flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com> <f9njj4hrb6tcakpk175njfarktt2qqeb1u 4ax.com> <utm_k.9013$Ei5.195 flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com> <6pug0sFa33ioU1 mid.individual.net> <XmD_k.9451$c45.4124 nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com> <6q0l1rFabd70U1 mid.individual.net> <ghfe7m02he9 news6.newsguy.com>
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> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350
> Xref: prodigy.net rec.photo.digital:1516408 sci.electronics.design:947582
> X-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 22:18:49 EST (nlpi102-int.nbdc.sbc.com)
>
>

 
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ASAAR
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      12-07-2008
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:42:30 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

>> As many inexpensive
>> battery chargers can automatically detect the difference between
>> alkalines and rechargeable batteries,

>
>
> ** By applying a charging current to them and monitoring what happens to
> the voltage. The terminal voltage of a ( partly discharged) alkaline cell
> will rise rapidly while that of a NiMH or NiCd cell will not.
>
>
>> cameras that require a user to
>> select the battery-type with a switch or menu setting may be
>> indirectly telling you that the manufacturer wasn't generous in
>> allocating funds to develop the camera's firmware,

>
> ** No way.
>
> The issue is simply that the camera has no ability to charge cells.


Way, as they say. Not to charge cells but to determine cell type.
The above is merely one method and there are others. Comparing cell
voltages under very light and moderate loads is another, one which
most people can do with nearly 100% accuracy using very simple,
inexpensive equipment, and their equivalents are already present
within cameras capable of displaying low battery warning indicators.
I know that I can. Can't you?

 
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J. Clarke
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      12-07-2008
Phil Allison wrote:
> "J. Clarke"
>> Phil Allison wrote:
>>> "John Dope Head "

>>
>>>
>>>>> ** Devices that have user replaceable AA cells cannot display "
>>>>> remaining power" -
>>>>
>>>> In fact they do display an estimation,
>>>
>>>
>>> ** Complete *******s.

>>
>> Are you saying that his statement is *******s or that the quality
>> of
>> the estimation is *******s?

>
>
> ** The falsehood is that a battrey voltage display shows (or even
> approximates) remaining capacity.
>
> Remember, we are considering only user replaceable AA cells - so
> AA
> cells of any type, condition or state of charge can be fitted to the
> device at whim.


Do us a favor and go to
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/03000007...580_CUG_EN.pdf (Canon manual
for A580, powered by AA batteries--you can also get to that link by
drilling down in the Canon site) and take a look on page 47 at the top
(if you're using Acrobat Reader scroll to page 49 to get there) and
tell us what the "Battery Charge Indicator" is since by your
contention it cannot be an estimate of remaining capacity.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


 
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John Doe
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      12-07-2008
ASAAR <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:


>> It's a simple question, Jack. When you have the camera set for
>> alkalines but you are using rechargeables, when it prematurely
>> shows low voltage, does the camera switch off mistakenly because
>> you have incorrectly set the battery type? How does the battery
>> type swhich effect anything besides the user interface?

>
> If one group designed cameras for all manufacturers, this generic
> question might be easily answered


In other words, Jack, you don't know.

> the answer is not likely to be consistent even within a single
> manufacturer's product line.


Sure it is, Jack. The answer is No.

> As many inexpensive battery chargers can automatically detect the
> difference between alkalines and rechargeable batteries,


That's bullshit, Jack. Even the MH-C9000 sometimes mistakes
rechargeables for alkalines.

> cameras that require a user to select the battery-type with a
> switch or menu setting may be indirectly telling you that the
> manufacturer wasn't generous in allocating funds to develop the
> camera's firmware,


Develop the cameras firmware? You're full of it, Jack.

Name a camera that automatically detects whether you are using
disposables or rechargeables.


--
The first big front wheel rollerblades.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/3056505603
 
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SMS
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      12-07-2008
Phil Allison wrote:

> ** Clearly the battery type switch alters the threshold voltage for
> triggering the "low batt" warning.


If you use CHDK on Canon cameras, you can get a somewhat better idea of
the remaining capacity. But the problem with NiMH batteries is that the
voltage doesn't decline linearly with capacity, so a "low battery"
indicator is about all that is useful on the AA battery powered cameras.
A battery gauge on an AA powered camera using NiMH batteries isn't going
to convey much useful information, since it'll show a full battery most
of the time, even when the capacity is declining.
 
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ASAAR
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      12-07-2008
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:29:50 GMT, Jack Doe-nut wrote:

> Name a camera that automatically detects whether you are using
> disposables or rechargeables.


Name the last time that you didn't come across as a total jerk.

 
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Phil Allison
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      12-07-2008

"J. Clarke"
Phil Allison wrote:
>
>> ** The falsehood is that a battery voltage display shows (or even
>> approximates) remaining capacity.
>>
>> Remember, we are considering only user replaceable AA cells - so
>> AA
>> cells of any type, condition or state of charge can be fitted to the
>> device at whim.

>
> Do us a favor ..



** You do me one and go drop dead

Nothing in some stupid user manual has any bearing on the FACTS of the
matter.



...... Phil




 
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Phil Allison
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      12-07-2008

"ASAAR"
Phil Allison wrote:
>
>>> As many inexpensive
>>> battery chargers can automatically detect the difference between
>>> alkalines and rechargeable batteries,

>>
>>
>> ** By applying a charging current to them and monitoring what happens to
>> the voltage. The terminal voltage of a ( partly discharged) alkaline cell
>> will rise rapidly while that of a NiMH or NiCd cell will not.
>>
>>
>>> cameras that require a user to
>>> select the battery-type with a switch or menu setting may be
>>> indirectly telling you that the manufacturer wasn't generous in
>>> allocating funds to develop the camera's firmware,

>>
>> ** No way.
>>
>> The issue is simply that the camera has no ability to charge cells.

>
> Way, as they say. Not to charge cells but to determine cell type.



** What a PITA, bullshitting sophist you are.


> The above is merely one method ..


** The one YOU alluded to when YOU raised the issue of battery chargers.


> Comparing cell
> voltages under very light and moderate loads is another,



** Not a reliable test of cell chemistry.



..... Phil



 
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