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HI All,

Hoping I can lean on your experience a bit. I have a young daughter
who has been a bit of a freak when it comes to cameras. Whenever she
picks one up and takes a photo they always come out, well "Wow" is a
common phrase used to describe her shots. I used to put it down to
luck but it happens too many times and have had too many comments from
people.

Anyway, I want to encourage this talent/luck/skill and buy her a new
camera for Christmas. I did some research and as a complete
photography Neanderthal didn’t make much headway in narrowing down
choices. Going to the local stores revealed an extremely high number
of units available coinciding with a complete lack of knowledge, other
than how much you want to spend, and then a camera appearing at the
upper end of my range. (One salesperson even going so far as to say
you can’t go wrong with these canons, unfortunately, it was a Nikon he
had delivered to me)

My plan is to get her a P&S camera and get her into it a bit more. In
the future if she is still keen I will get her a DSLR type
arrangement, which if I am reading right is more accessory oriented
with things such as lenses etc. and requires more technical knowledge.

I will be taking her to the local store and will let her handle
various ones but need to come up with a list of options to start with.
My requirements don’t seem to meet the commercial methods of marketing
such as how much or how many MP's so will give my requirements the
only way I know how.

Can anyone with experience with cameras matching these criteria give
their recommendations for P&S cameras to try?

1) P*S price range. If I can get a reasonable DSLR for the same money
it’s too much.
2) Able to handle a teenager. While she is good at handling equipment
she does have four younger siblings and holidays can be a bit chaotic.
So any fragile units are out.
3) Full auto default operation but with capability to manually set
options if she wants to explore.
4) Photos to be printed will be standard 4"x6" (10cmx15cm) 99% of the
time. Although she's expressed an interest in experimenting with
8"x10" in the future.
5) Some video capability but not important to be latest and greatest.
She is more into pictures. Video is for more adhoc light fun stuff.
6) Technology doesn’t scare her but prefer not to overwhelm her
either, she is still learning after all.
7) Camera size/bulk, prettiness, fashion attributes no important. She
tends to always prefer function over form in her electronic equipment.

Would appreciate any advice or wisdom you can offer.

wrote:
> HI All,

> Would appreciate any advice or wisdom you can offer.

You can quickly narrow down the possible choices based on those
criteria, especially the manual modes.

Go to "http://dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php" and select "Fixed
Lens," "Under $200," and tick the boxes for AF-assist lamp, Image
stabilizer, Manual exposure, and "Optical/electronic viewfinder."

The only two models left to consider are the Canon PowerShot A590 IS and
the Nikon CoolPix P60.

Of those two, I'd choose the A590 IS. Actually, if you can find the
older A570 IS, which is the same, but with 7.1 megapixels instead of 8
megapixels, get that one, but it's discontinued. The A570 IS has better
video, and with larger pixels is less noisy.

In the U.S., the A590 IS sells for as little as $102, which is an
incredible deal for such a capable camera. There's nothing else with an
optical viewfinder, image stabilization, and manual exposure that can
touch it. I think that with so many people wanting very small cameras,
the A series is overlooked. It's larger than the ultra-compacts, and it
lacks a Li-Ion battery and charger, but it has capabilities that the
smaller cameras can't match.

Also, you can install the temporary CHDK firmware hack on the camera for
increased control. CHDK adds a lot of the firmware features of D-SLRs to
Canon P&S cameras. Some of the stuff in the CHDK firmware is useful,
some is fun, and some is dumb. Being able to shoot in RAW mode may be
something that's of value, and I find the histogram and grid lines to be
useful as well. Of course CHDK it doesn't fix the slow auto-focus or
high ISO issues, because these are inherent to the camera design; those
will have to wait until she graduates to a D-SLR.

Above all, don't buy anything without an optical viewfinder. My daughter
got so used to the advantages of an optical viewfinder, then her school
journalism teacher bought some cheap digital cameras that lacked a
viewfinder and she was really complaining about how hard they were to
use outside in the sun. You don't realize how wonderful it is, until
it's not there.

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 04:48:12 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

>HI All,
>
>Hoping I can lean on your experience a bit. I have a young daughter
>who has been a bit of a freak when it comes to cameras. Whenever she
>picks one up and takes a photo they always come out, well "Wow" is a
>common phrase used to describe her shots. I used to put it down to
>luck but it happens too many times and have had too many comments from
>people.
>
>1) P*S price range. If I can get a reasonable DSLR for the same money
>it’s too much.

You will be able to get a good P&S for under $200, but the minimum
outlay for a dslr is about $600 when you add a bag, sales tax, and a
decent-sized SD card.

When my daughter was in high school, she was interested in
photography. I bought her a 35mm slr (this was before digital).
She's still into photography, owns a dslr, makes a nice side income
from her photography, is active in a camera club, enters competitions,
and was just invited to hang some of her work in local gallery.

Your daughter can learn photography with a P&S since composition and
the ability to see a photographic opportunity is an operator function
and not a camera function. The best, most expensive, camera doesn't
take good pictures unless the user has the ability to see a scene and
compose it.

Owning a dslr, though, encourages the user to use the mechanical part
of the process of photography to the fullest. The dslr has more
capability than the P&S. The really interested young photographers
will push themselves to learn more about photography when they have
equipment that can be used to do more than just capture what's in
front of it.

If your daughter shows interest in learning about photography (not
just taking snapshots), taking classes in photography, joining the
school camera club, and taking photographs of scenes and things that
are not just friends and family, I'd go straight to dslr.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

wrote:
> HI All,
>
> Hoping I can lean on your experience a bit. I have a young daughter
> who has been a bit of a freak when it comes to cameras. Whenever she
> picks one up and takes a photo they always come out, well "Wow" is a
> common phrase used to describe her shots. I used to put it down to
> luck but it happens too many times and have had too many comments from
> people.
>
> Anyway, I want to encourage this talent/luck/skill and buy her a new
> camera for Christmas. I did some research and as a complete
> photography Neanderthal didn’t make much headway in narrowing down
> choices. Going to the local stores revealed an extremely high number
> of units available coinciding with a complete lack of knowledge, other
> than how much you want to spend, and then a camera appearing at the
> upper end of my range. (One salesperson even going so far as to say
> you can’t go wrong with these canons, unfortunately, it was a Nikon he
> had delivered to me)
>
> My plan is to get her a P&S camera and get her into it a bit more. In
> the future if she is still keen I will get her a DSLR type
> arrangement, which if I am reading right is more accessory oriented
> with things such as lenses etc. and requires more technical knowledge.
>
> I will be taking her to the local store and will let her handle
> various ones but need to come up with a list of options to start with.
> My requirements don’t seem to meet the commercial methods of marketing
> such as how much or how many MP's so will give my requirements the
> only way I know how.
>

I second your idea. It is important to foster good "seeing" when they
are young, the technical skills can come later. Young kids frequently
see things differently and uniquely, and that is what they should be
concentrating on. If photography catches on with them, they will then
want to do fancier things that demand more manual control, including
perspective and such.

Is there a camera club in your area that you and your daughter can join?
That way your daughter can see what others are doing. Youngsters soak up
this kind of thing in a big way.

tony cooper wrote:

> You will be able to get a good P&S for under $200, but the minimum
> outlay for a dslr is about $600 when you add a bag, sales tax, and a
> decent-sized SD card.

Nah, you can get a Nikon D40 with the kit lens for $410 at Amazon. SD
cards are dirt cheap, an 8GB SDHC card is less than $15. A decent D-SLR
camera bag is $20 from Amazon. There's no tax (well you're supposed to
send the tax in on your own in most states). You can get started for
less than $450.

> Owning a dslr, though, encourages the user to use the mechanical part
> of the process of photography to the fullest. The dslr has more
> capability than the P&S. The really interested young photographers
> will push themselves to learn more about photography when they have
> equipment that can be used to do more than just capture what's in
> front of it.
>
> If your daughter shows interest in learning about photography (not
> just taking snapshots), taking classes in photography, joining the
> school camera club, and taking photographs of scenes and things that
> are not just friends and family, I'd go straight to dslr.

All true. The P&S is fun, but you won't learn the intricacies of
lighting, depth of field, focusing, ISO speeds, apertures, etc. You
need an SLR for that.

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:40:34 -0800, SMS <>
wrote:

>tony cooper wrote:
>
>> You will be able to get a good P&S for under $200, but the minimum
>> outlay for a dslr is about $600 when you add a bag, sales tax, and a
>> decent-sized SD card.
>
>Nah, you can get a Nikon D40 with the kit lens for $410 at Amazon. SD
>cards are dirt cheap, an 8GB SDHC card is less than $15. A decent D-SLR
>camera bag is $20 from Amazon. There's no tax (well you're supposed to
>send the tax in on your own in most states). You can get started for
>less than $450.

I own a D40, and I purchased it online. However, I'm assuming that
the OP isn't an experienced camera shopper and will buy in a store.
He should. He needs the advice available from a knowledgeable camera
store person. The D40 is going for $449 at the local good camera
store, and tax takes it to $477. Add a bag and whatever else the guy
walks out with, and he's around $500 or $525. I don't think you lead
the guy to think he can get in the dslrs for less than $450 unless
he's a knowledge buyer.

While I own a D40, I think I'd steer this user to a Pentax because of
lens capability. The daughter will find adding lenses to be cheaper
in the long run.

>> Owning a dslr, though, encourages the user to use the mechanical part
>> of the process of photography to the fullest. The dslr has more
>> capability than the P&S. The really interested young photographers
>> will push themselves to learn more about photography when they have
>> equipment that can be used to do more than just capture what's in
>> front of it.
>>
>> If your daughter shows interest in learning about photography (not
>> just taking snapshots), taking classes in photography, joining the
>> school camera club, and taking photographs of scenes and things that
>> are not just friends and family, I'd go straight to dslr.
>
>All true. The P&S is fun, but you won't learn the intricacies of
>lighting, depth of field, focusing, ISO speeds, apertures, etc. You
>need an SLR for that.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:15:56 -0600, chad-gleason
<> wrote:

>On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:40:34 -0800, SMS <> wrote:
>
>>tony cooper wrote:
>>
>>> You will be able to get a good P&S for under $200, but the minimum
>>> outlay for a dslr is about $600 when you add a bag, sales tax, and a
>>> decent-sized SD card.
>>
>>Nah, you can get a Nikon D40 with the kit lens for $410 at Amazon. SD
>>cards are dirt cheap, an 8GB SDHC card is less than $15. A decent D-SLR
>>camera bag is $20 from Amazon. There's no tax (well you're supposed to
>>send the tax in on your own in most states). You can get started for
>>less than $450.
>
>See point #4 below. DSLR + Kit lens = con-artist routine. That $410 investment
>is going to cost you over $5000 to bring it up to the image quality obtained
>from any decent P&S camera.

It's one thing to try to fool experienced photographers with this
bullshit, but you shouldn't try to fool the inexperienced. They
actually might believe you.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Thanks to all for the advice. It was very useful. I will look out for
the 470IS model. And check out the Nikon specified.As an FYI, the
three I had already identified as options are the, Canon A490IS, Sony
Cyber-shot W150 and Panasonic Lumix LZ8. Your input of course is worth
more than my attempts.

BTW: I'll upgrade myself from Neanderthal to a Photography Cro-Magnon.
Since the A490IS was one that was at the top of my list for a while.
The 2 things that always nagged me about it was some people saying
10secs recharge time after flash (although most review sites indicate
half of this) and the fact that it is so cheap ~US75$ at the moment.
Some of my fears are eased.

Re actually learning photography. My daughter has asked about clubs
however, those we have checked out dont cater to kids. (If anyone does
know of clubs in Sydney where teens are welcome let us know). So we
are kind of stuck for now with library books, internet forums and her
getting actual experience, which this camera will help her do.

Again, thanks for your input.

On Dec 5, 10:51*am, chris.bartlet...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> Thanks to all for the advice. It was very useful. I will look out for
> the 470IS model. And check out the Nikon specified.As an FYI, the
> three I had already identified as options are the, Canon A490IS, Sony
> Cyber-shot W150 and Panasonic Lumix LZ8. Your input of course is worth
> more than my attempts.
>
> BTW: I'll upgrade myself from Neanderthal to a Photography Cro-Magnon.
> Since the A490IS was one that was at the top of my list for a while.
> The 2 things that always nagged me about it was some people saying
> 10secs recharge time after flash (although most review sites indicate
> half of this) and the fact that it is so cheap ~US75$ at the moment.
> Some of my fears are eased.
>
> Re actually learning photography. My daughter has asked about clubs
> however, those we have checked out dont cater to kids. (If anyone does
> know of clubs in Sydney where teens are welcome let us know). So we
> are kind of stuck for now with library books, internet forums and her
> getting actual experience, which this camera will help her do.
>
> Again, thanks for your input.

Oops..Where I say 470 read 570, where I say 490 read 590. I havent had
my coffee yet. Sorry for any confusion.

chad-gleason <> wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:40:34 -0800, SMS <> wrote:
>
>>tony cooper wrote:
>>
>>> You will be able to get a good P&S for under $200, but the minimum
>>> outlay for a dslr is about $600 when you add a bag, sales tax, and a
>>> decent-sized SD card.
>>
>>Nah, you can get a Nikon D40 with the kit lens for $410 at Amazon. SD
>>cards are dirt cheap, an 8GB SDHC card is less than $15. A decent D-SLR
>>camera bag is $20 from Amazon. There's no tax (well you're supposed to
>>send the tax in on your own in most states). You can get started for
>>less than $450.
>
>See point #4 below. DSLR + Kit lens = con-artist routine. That $410 investment
>is going to cost you over $5000 to bring it up to the image quality obtained
>from any decent P&S camera.

Bullshit.
To the OP: please see Chad's previous posting in this group for some
good hints about how trustworthy his advice is.

jue