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Black and White

 
 
tony cooper
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      11-20-2008
Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)

I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.

Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
that channel.

My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.

Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
techniques?

(I use Photoshop 7.0)



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Fenton B Harper
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
>effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
>messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
>offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
>need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
>as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
>
>I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
>information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
>
>Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
>Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
>channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
>that channel.
>
>My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
>using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
>Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
>layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
>certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
>
>Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
>techniques?
>
>(I use Photoshop 7.0)
>
>


None of the above.

You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
from that starting point.

I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
adjustment to tweak contrast as you do this. It also allows you to go as low a
-200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing for some novel reversals
that make very realistic looking IR images. It also allows you to work on
individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color channel), or full-color,
as well as its more typical use of working in gray-scale only for B&W work.

Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".
 
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Fenton B Harper
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
>effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
>messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
>offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
>need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
>as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
>
>I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
>information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
>
>Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
>Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
>channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
>that channel.
>
>My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
>using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
>Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
>layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
>certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
>
>Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
>techniques?
>
>(I use Photoshop 7.0)
>
>


Typo correction **

None of the above.

You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
from that starting point.

I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
adjustment to **set it to a constant** (not contrast) as you do this. It also
allows you to go as low a -200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing
for some novel reversals that make very realistic looking IR images. It also
allows you to work on individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color
channel), or full-color, as well as its more typical use of working in
gray-scale only for B&W work.

Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".
 
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tony cooper
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:42:34 -0600, Fenton B Harper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
>>effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
>>messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
>>offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
>>need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
>>as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
>>
>>I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
>>information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
>>
>>Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
>>Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
>>channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
>>that channel.
>>
>>My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
>>using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
>>Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
>>layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
>>certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
>>
>>Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
>>techniques?
>>
>>(I use Photoshop 7.0)
>>
>>

>
>None of the above.
>
>You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
>proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
>appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
>from that starting point.
>
>I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
>100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
>the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
>the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
>adjustment to tweak contrast as you do this. It also allows you to go as low a
>-200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing for some novel reversals
>that make very realistic looking IR images. It also allows you to work on
>individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color channel), or full-color,
>as well as its more typical use of working in gray-scale only for B&W work.
>
>Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".


Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stay with Photoshop since I use it
for other functions. Photoshop does have the Channel Mixer function,
and I tried it on one of the images I worked in with
less-than-acceptable results. Obviously, I have to read-up on this
tool.

One thing I noticed in using your figures above is that the subject
converts to B&W OK, but the sky is an ugly gray. My other efforts
have resulted in better results in the sky.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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nospam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
> techniques?
>
> (I use Photoshop 7.0)


check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
<http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>

these are for later versions of ps, but the techniques might still be
applicable:
<http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/BlackWhiteVariationsSM.mov>
<http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3Color_To_BWSM.mov>
 
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AlexanderD
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:38:49 -0500, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:42:34 -0600, Fenton B Harper
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:20:25 -0500, tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Sometimes, when reviewing my shots, I see on that I think will be more
>>>effective in black and white. I shot some today that I have been
>>>messing around with to this end. (I won't link to them for fear of
>>>offending the sensibilities of my friend who thinks that photos that
>>>need post-processing improvements should be discarded as as worthless
>>>as a McCain/Palin bumper sticker.)
>>>
>>>I find that there are several recommended techniques. Most websource
>>>information recommend converting to Gray Scale over Desaturation.
>>>
>>>Kelby suggests converting to Lab Mode and then changing the Lightness
>>>Channel to Gray Scale. He also recommends working with just one
>>>channel - depending on which works for the image - and then adjusting
>>>that channel.
>>>
>>>My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
>>>using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
>>>Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
>>>layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
>>>certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
>>>
>>>Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
>>>techniques?
>>>
>>>(I use Photoshop 7.0)
>>>
>>>

>>
>>None of the above.
>>
>>You need to learn how to use a good Channel-Mixer tool. Mixing them in
>>proportions of (approx.) 30%R, 59%G, and 11%B will start you off with the grays
>>appearing as they do to the human eye. Work it further using the Channel-Mixer
>>from that starting point.
>>
>>I prefer the Channel-Mixer in Photoline because it has an option to "Fix to
>>100%", meaning, as you change one it will change the other two to always keep
>>the percentage at 100% of all channels combined. You don't have to constantly do
>>the quick adding in your head to make them add up to 100. It also has an
>>adjustment to tweak contrast as you do this. It also allows you to go as low a
>>-200% and as high as +200% for each channel. Allowing for some novel reversals
>>that make very realistic looking IR images. It also allows you to work on
>>individual colors (mapping new RGB values to each color channel), or full-color,
>>as well as its more typical use of working in gray-scale only for B&W work.
>>
>>Get and learn how to use a good "Channel Mixer".

>
>Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stay with Photoshop since I use it
>for other functions. Photoshop does have the Channel Mixer function,
>and I tried it on one of the images I worked in with
>less-than-acceptable results. Obviously, I have to read-up on this
>tool.
>
>One thing I noticed in using your figures above is that the subject
>converts to B&W OK, but the sky is an ugly gray. My other efforts
>have resulted in better results in the sky.


This is exactly why color filters were (are) used in B&W photography. You use
the Channel-Mixer adjustments in the same way as adding filter to the front of
your lens. Add a blue filter (more blue %, less red and green) to lighten the
sky, add a red filter (more red %, less blue and green) to darken the blue sky.
This is what you are doing with the channel mixer. Add more green (less red) to
brighten foliage, add more red (less green) to darken foliage. etc.

B&W photography basics 101, only now you use a channel-mixer in a similar
manner.

 
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tony cooper
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:47:39 -0500, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
>> techniques?
>>
>> (I use Photoshop 7.0)

>
>check out russell brown's tutorial videos. here's one using ps7:
><http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/ColortoBW.mov>
>
>these are for later versions of ps, but the techniques might still be
>applicable:
><http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/BlackWhiteVariationsSM.mov>
><http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3Color_To_BWSM.mov>


Interesting. More than one way to skin a cat.

I'll try Brown's techniques tomorrow.

I've never viewed a Russell Brown video before. Bit of a showman, but
it the suggestions work....

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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David J Taylor
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
tony cooper wrote:
[]
> My best experiences resulted from converting to Gray Scale and then
> using a Curves Adjustment Layer followed by Brightness/Contrast
> Adjustment Layer. In one, I flattened, duplicated the background
> layer, set that to multiply, and then used a Layer Mask to reveal
> certain areas that the multiply blend made too dark.
>
> Any recommendations from anyone in the group? General work flow
> techniques?


I'm tempted to say do whichever gives you the best results - the results
which you prefer. There is no one "correct" answer when subjective
results are involved.

My own use of monochrome has been mainly for night shots, where the very
mixed lighting sources can result in some very odd colour balance. Using
monochrome adds mood and reduces the visibility of noise.

David

 
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nospam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, John
McWilliams <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Ah, thanks for the top link. That's the process I referred to, but
> couldn't recall the steps. You can make an action of this as well, which
> is what I did till I got the CS version.


he has assorted actions to download at his site.
 
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nospam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, tony cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Interesting. More than one way to skin a cat.


very true. there's also this:
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/ph...wconversion.ht
ml

> I'll try Brown's techniques tomorrow.
>
> I've never viewed a Russell Brown video before. Bit of a showman, but
> it the suggestions work....


he's quite entertaining and some of this other videos are *very*
impressive.
 
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