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Blow-out correction

 
 
tony cooper
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      11-15-2008

To the Photoshop users here....

In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg

the upper-right corner has a lot of white blown-out. The third story
of the white building is bad, bad, bad.

Using Photoshop v. 7.0....
I've tried various ways of toning that white down, but I can't do it
without negatively affecting the non-white parts. Selecting that
area, and using "Replace Color", I can tone down the white, but that
affects the leaves, branches, and street light. I can do a selection
that omits the street light, but those leaves and branches are just
too fine to do a selection on.

I have a hunch I can do something in Lab Mode using channels, but I
can't figure it out. Maybe something else.

Any technique suggestions?

Note: Photoshop 7.0, not a CS version.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Mark Thomas
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      11-15-2008
Just to show I do sometimes do more than play with trolls.. (O:

tony cooper wrote:
> To the Photoshop users here....
>
> In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg
>
> the upper-right corner has a lot of white blown-out. The third story
> of the white building is bad, bad, bad.
>
> Using Photoshop v. 7.0....
> I've tried various ways of toning that white down, but I can't do it
> without negatively affecting the non-white parts. Selecting that
> area, and using "Replace Color", I can tone down the white, but that
> affects the leaves, branches, and street light. I can do a selection
> that omits the street light, but those leaves and branches are just
> too fine to do a selection on.
>
> I have a hunch I can do something in Lab Mode using channels, but I
> can't figure it out. Maybe something else.
>
> Any technique suggestions?
>
> Note: Photoshop 7.0, not a CS version.
>

I would suggest you post this to the PS groups instead, and will be
interested to see more expert answers than mine. In the meantime, here
is my amateur opinion. (I'm assuming you don't have a better original
(eg a raw file)...?)

It's a nice looking shot and it's a pity you/whoever didn't grab two
images, one for the building, one for the sky..

There are some close-to-insurmountable problems with trying to ease the
burning sensation:

1. There just doesn't appear to be any usable detail in the lost areas
in any channels, be they RGB or LAB... if there was, then yes, you can
selectively duplicate detail from one channel into others.

2. The scene wouldn't be easy to fix even if there was some usable data
- the foliage, the lamp, the detailed bits of building would all need to
be watched/selected/layer-erased out depending on your approach. Plus
that flare that extends over the side of the building will somehow have
to be balanced against whatever you do - a pasted blue/grey sky would be
awkward and just not look right, imo, and you still have no building
details.

I had a quick go at a simple duplicate layer, curved down a bit and then
selective erasure, but it just didn't look like I was heading anywhere
useful...

How about a radical suggestion? I experimented a bit with the curves
and then channel mixing it to monochrome, and the burning seemed much
less of an issue, partly by making it look as if you had gone for
deliberate contrast.. "I meant to do that!"
 
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Paul Furman
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      11-15-2008
tony cooper wrote:
> To the Photoshop users here....
>
> In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg
>
> the upper-right corner has a lot of white blown-out. The third story
> of the white building is bad, bad, bad.
>
> Using Photoshop v. 7.0....
> I've tried various ways of toning that white down, but I can't do it
> without negatively affecting the non-white parts. Selecting that
> area, and using "Replace Color", I can tone down the white, but that
> affects the leaves, branches, and street light. I can do a selection
> that omits the street light, but those leaves and branches are just
> too fine to do a selection on.
>
> I have a hunch I can do something in Lab Mode using channels, but I
> can't figure it out. Maybe something else.
>
> Any technique suggestions?
>
> Note: Photoshop 7.0, not a CS version.


The blown sky can't be fixed, maybe somewhat with a raw file... the one
simple thing I would do is remove that blue fringing at the edge of the
leaves. Curiously, I did that by making an adjustment layer for
saturation and selecting blues only, cranked the saturation all the way
down and the offending fringes disappeared without hardly any effect on
the rest of the image. I was planning to erase the adjustment layer
outside that area and surprised how little relevance that had.

The next thing I tried was to lift the shadows with a curves adjustment
layer... my curve lifts the shadows on the left side then uses another
control point to correct that lift on the rest at the 1/4 mark, then
another control point at the 3/4 mark to straighten the remainder a tiny
bit darker than the straight line.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
 
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tony cooper
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      11-15-2008
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:20:41 +1000, Mark Thomas
<markt@_don't_spam_marktphoto.com> wrote:

>Just to show I do sometimes do more than play with trolls.. (O:
>
>tony cooper wrote:
>> To the Photoshop users here....
>>
>> In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg
>>
>> the upper-right corner has a lot of white blown-out. The third story
>> of the white building is bad, bad, bad.
>>
>> Using Photoshop v. 7.0....
>> I've tried various ways of toning that white down, but I can't do it
>> without negatively affecting the non-white parts. Selecting that
>> area, and using "Replace Color", I can tone down the white, but that
>> affects the leaves, branches, and street light. I can do a selection
>> that omits the street light, but those leaves and branches are just
>> too fine to do a selection on.
>>
>> I have a hunch I can do something in Lab Mode using channels, but I
>> can't figure it out. Maybe something else.
>>
>> Any technique suggestions?
>>
>> Note: Photoshop 7.0, not a CS version.
>>

>I would suggest you post this to the PS groups instead, and will be
>interested to see more expert answers than mine. In the meantime, here
>is my amateur opinion. (I'm assuming you don't have a better original
>(eg a raw file)...?)


I did, but I didn't cross-post. I hate to drag people from one group
to another. Some don't play well together.


>It's a nice looking shot and it's a pity you/whoever didn't grab two
>images, one for the building, one for the sky..


Normally, I shoot with a Nikon D40. This was taken with a Nikon P2
point and shoot; my pocket camera. We took a walk around the block
after lunch and I was too lazy to go to the car's trunk and get my
D40.

If I see a scene that I think will make a good photograph, I tend to
over-shoot. I'll change angles and change f-stop and change the focus
point. In this case, there were two facing sets of steps in this
Savannah house. Here's the other set:

http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannahsteps.jpg

In this image, the problem is at the upper left. The cornice is
washed out on the corner. I can work on that, but I haven't yet.

The thing is, though, the purpose of my post of the other image was to
tap the knowledge of others in how to correct problems in images. Not
to have it done for me, but to learn which steps to use. I'm pretty
proficient with Photoshop (v 7.0), but there's always something more
to learn. I'm working at improving my use of adjustment layers in
Channels, but I'm not up to speed yet.

I like to fiddle with images. For this shot, for example, in another
version I've added a layer blended with Multiply, pulled down the
opacity to 40%, and I get a deeper, richer yellow wall.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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Mark Thomas
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      11-15-2008
tony cooper wrote:
>>> In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Any technique suggestions?
>>>

>> I would suggest you post this to the PS groups instead...

>
> I did, but I didn't cross-post. I hate to drag people from one group
> to another. Some don't play well together.


Very ture - that's good and I shall watch the other thread/s with interest.

>
>> It's a nice looking shot and it's a pity you/whoever didn't grab two
>> images, one for the building, one for the sky..

>
> Normally, I shoot with a Nikon D40. This was taken with a Nikon P2
> point and shoot; my pocket camera. We took a walk around the block
> after lunch and I was too lazy to go to the car's trunk and get my
> D40.
>
> If I see a scene that I think will make a good photograph, I tend to
> over-shoot. I'll change angles and change f-stop and change the focus
> point.

Given the limited dynamic range of the P2, maybe it might be an idea to
use exposure bracketing for these sort of images, if it has it.. (I too
have tiny Ricoh carry around and it does, but it also has worse dr
performance, so maybe that is just an acknowledgment..!).

I don't mean to try to teach the wise (I too still get these shots
wrong, despite knowing better!), but your in-built exposure sensor (aka
'brain') needs to be able to recognise these scenes and the warning
bells should go off - "Bzzzt - my camera probably won't handle that
exposure range!"

> In this case, there were two facing sets of steps in this
> Savannah house. Here's the other set:
>
> http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannahsteps.jpg


hahah, Snap! It's a pity *one* of them doesn't have a decent
background, and you could simply reverse it and paste it in!

> The thing is, though, the purpose of my post of the other image was to
> tap the knowledge of others in how to correct problems in images. Not
> to have it done for me, but to learn which steps to use. I'm pretty
> proficient with Photoshop (v 7.0), but there's always something more
> to learn. I'm working at improving my use of adjustment layers in
> Channels, but I'm not up to speed yet.
>
> I like to fiddle with images. For this shot, for example, in another
> version I've added a layer blended with Multiply, pulled down the
> opacity to 40%, and I get a deeper, richer yellow wall.


Sounds like you are about where I am with PS.. Enough knowledge to be
dangerous, and to realise that there probably is a better way to do
(insert task)... Like I said, I'll watch the other thread with some
interest.
 
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tony cooper
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2008
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:52:04 -0900, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

>tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>To the Photoshop users here....
>>
>>In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg
>>
>>the upper-right corner has a lot of white blown-out. The third story
>>of the white building is bad, bad, bad.

>
>That is exactly the case. It is blown out. You *can't*
>get any detail to show in that no matter what you do.
>The white in that area has a grand total of 3 levels!
>(253, 254 and 255). There simply is no detail.
>
>>Using Photoshop v. 7.0....
>>I've tried various ways of toning that white down, but I can't do it
>>without negatively affecting the non-white parts.

>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "toning that white down".
>If you just want it to be a shade of grey, rather than
>white, that can be done easily enough. But it is still
>*all* going to be just one shade (posterized, if you
>will), and there just is no texture in it at all.
>

Thanks for the suggestions, but I've given up on that image.
Instead, I'm using
http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannahsteps.jpg This photo is blown
out on the upper left, especially the cornice corner and the top of
the lamp post. I'm not sure what caused that, but it could be that
the camera's metering system took in only the lower area of the steps.
I didn't have my dslr with me, and used my Nikon P2 P&S.

I don't know if you are familiar with Savannah (Georgia) architecture.
Many of the older houses in the historic area have the main entrance
on the second floor. This was to prevent the family quarters from
being flooded if the river rose. The first floor (in the American
sense of "first floor") was the kitchen area.

This particular house had two matching, curved staircases that faced
each other across a flagstone terrace in front. I shot both.

The Savannah historic district is a photographer's dream and a
photographer's nightmare. Fantastic architecture, unique
architectural detail, and interesting scenes all over the place. But
the streets are narrow, the houses are tall, and there are spreading,
mature trees on every street. This leaves what you want to shoot
shrouded in shadow any time of day. Not just shadow, but streaks of
shadow and streaks of sunlight coming in through gaps.

You see this great window with aged and flaking paint, hand-blown
glass panes, and wrought iron shutter brackets...and there's a
whacking great shadow pattern across it.

I like photographing city architecture, though.






--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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tony cooper
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      11-15-2008
To those who are interested in this project...

Dave, in a Photoshop newsgroup, came up with an interesting solution.
http://images2.fotopic.net/?iid=yvnn...ze=1&nostamp=1

He changed the building in the background from white to yellow. This
doesn't repair the blown-out details, but it fools the eye because the
contrast between the main subject and the background is less stark.
You don't notice the blown-out area as much.

It's an interesting solution, and one I had not thought of. It's one
of those tricks that I'll keep in mind for some future project.

I might make that yellow a little more mustardy and soft, and I don't
care for the green version, but the real value of Dave's suggestion is
that it's the type of out-of-the-box thinking that we can file away
and try on other things.

In case anyone comments that the shade of yellow makes the building
too bright, consider that it's technique - not final results - that's
the lesson. Technique can be modified by the user and final results
can change.

(Dave listed the steps he used in alt.graphics.photoshop if anyone's
interested.)


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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tony cooper
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2008
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:56:05 -0500, Alan Browne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>tony cooper wrote:
>> To the Photoshop users here....
>>
>> In this image: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/savannah%20020b.jpg
>>
>> the upper-right corner has a lot of white blown-out. The third story
>> of the white building is bad, bad, bad.
>>
>> Using Photoshop v. 7.0....
>> I've tried various ways of toning that white down, but I can't do it
>> without negatively affecting the non-white parts. Selecting that
>> area, and using "Replace Color", I can tone down the white, but that
>> affects the leaves, branches, and street light. I can do a selection
>> that omits the street light, but those leaves and branches are just
>> too fine to do a selection on.
>>
>> I have a hunch I can do something in Lab Mode using channels, but I
>> can't figure it out. Maybe something else.
>>
>> Any technique suggestions?

>
>Re-shoot. Get the right side of the histogram inside the box. Even if
>the shot looks underexposed in the field, you'll be able to curve it at
>home. Shoot raw to maximize you possibilities.


As explained in other posts, the shot was taken in Savannah, Georgia.
I live in Orlando, Florida. Mapquest says that's over a 4 hour drive,
but Mapquest doesn't factor in restroom and meal stops.

As explained in other posts, the shot was taken with a Nikon P2
because I was too lazy to walk back to the car and get my D40 out of
the trunk. P2s don't shoot raw.

>In photoshop CS3 you can mask on color and then fill. Not sure about
>'junior' versions. The effect is not that great, but better than FFFFFF
>in your shot.


As explained in other posts, I use Photoshop v 7.0 and don't own CS3.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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tony cooper
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      11-15-2008
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:46:43 -0500, Alan Browne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>tony cooper wrote:
>
>> As explained in other posts, the shot was taken in Savannah, Georgia.
>> I live in Orlando, Florida. Mapquest says that's over a 4 hour drive,
>> but Mapquest doesn't factor in restroom and meal stops.
>>
>> As explained in other posts, the shot was taken with a Nikon P2
>> because I was too lazy to walk back to the car and get my D40 out of
>> the trunk. P2s don't shoot raw.

>
>> As explained in other posts, I use Photoshop v 7.0 and don't own CS3.

>
>What makes you think I read the other posts? I read and reply in
>posting order.


I assume you do, and probably rightly so. It's unlikely that you just
randomly select a post to read and not read others. It is likely that
you might skip posts entered by known trolls, though.

>I guess your take from this should be:
>
>1. When in high DR, it pays to under expose. Blown highlights are gone;
>underexposure can be raised, if at the expense of some noise.
>
>2. When in high DR, it pays to shoot raw and under expose. More of 1
>above. Dump the P2. Keep your D40 (relatively small) handy.
>
>3. When shooting something worth shooting it pays to use the right
>camera and technique (see 1 and 2 above).
>


No, Alan, my take is that I think I have an interesting problem of
blown highlights in a photograph that might otherwise be interesting.
Not great, but interesting. That take prompts me to offer the image
for discussion.

My take is also that some people enjoy figuring out how to bolt the
barn door after the horse is gone by using Photoshop. I can't imagine
that there's any active photographer in this group who hasn't taken an
image thinking at the time that he's done it right, and finding out
later that there's a problem in the photo. I can't imagine that
there's any active photographer in this group who has not been in the
position of seeing an interesting scene but not having the right
equipment with him at the time. It happens.

My take is that some will read this and participate in the discussion
with helpful suggestions, some who will read this and would rather go
do battle with the resident trolls, and some who will read this and
make useless suggestions like "dump the P2" and "use the right
equipment".

What do you want out of this newsgroup, Alan? Endless discussions
about P&S capabilities, a series of character attacks on the other
posters, a bigoted commentary about homosexuals, or more dreary
side-taking on Nikon vs Canon?

Or, would you rather have a discussion about an actual digital image
that didn't work out right and what can be done about it? If this is
your choice, provide meaningful commentary or go on to what interests
you.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 
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M-M
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      11-15-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
tony cooper <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> To those who are interested in this project...
>
> Dave, in a Photoshop newsgroup, came up with an interesting solution.
> http://images2.fotopic.net/?iid=yvnn...ze=1&nostamp=1
>
> He changed the building in the background from white to yellow. This
> doesn't repair the blown-out details, but it fools the eye because the
> contrast between the main subject and the background is less stark.
> You don't notice the blown-out area as much.



That's what I came up with.

I used "Replace Color" and selected the whitest part. Then tuned the
fuzziness so it only included the blown out part.

Then I adjusted the hue and saturation to make it a color but didn't
like any of it.

Actually it *should* be blown out, it's part of the bokeh


--
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com
 
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