??? about using music in projects

What do we have to do to use music in video projects?
How about popular music that's copyrighted? How do
things differ between projects we intend to sell and
those we don't? How about if it's something we are selling
like a wedding or some personal event, but won't ever be
aired? How about if it's something that hopefully will be
aired sometime?

Thanks for any help!

spl@ter.

This is a complex subject, but I'll try to give you 20 years of experience
in a few short sentences:

1. Virtually all popular music is copyrighted. It is protected by Federal
Law and if you get caught using it in any project whatsoever, without have
previously negotiated the rights for your particular project, you are
subject to prosecution. A number of video/audio production companies have
been put out of business, so this is no idle threat.

2. The hassle and costs of gaining rights to such music is almost always
not worth the effort, and most clients cannot afford the costs. We had one
major client who wanted to use the music from a well known movie. He
insisted. We told him that if we had a "hold harmless" letter, signed by a
Sr. VP or higher official of the corporation, we use it. He did and we did.
However, if there had been trouble, they would have had to pay a significant
fine to the Feds.

3. Generally, rely on "production music", which is available from many
companies. Some will simply sell you "buy out" songs....you buy them, you
own them, there are no additional fees. Other music libraries have a
specific set of fees that apply under different circumstances, for
commercial or duplication use, individual one time use, etc.

4. You want to gamble your future because someone wants to use a known tune
on their daughter's wedding, be my guest.

Hope this helps!


<spl@ter.> wrote in message
news:...
> What do we have to do to use music in video projects?
> How about popular music that's copyrighted? How do
> things differ between projects we intend to sell and
> those we don't? How about if it's something we are selling
> like a wedding or some personal event, but won't ever be
> aired? How about if it's something that hopefully will be
> aired sometime?
>
> Thanks for any help!

Guru

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:36:23 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:

>This is a complex subject, but I'll try to give you 20 years of experience
>in a few short sentences:
>
>1. Virtually all popular music is copyrighted. It is protected by Federal
>Law and if you get caught using it in any project whatsoever, without have
>previously negotiated the rights for your particular project, you are
>subject to prosecution. A number of video/audio production companies have
>been put out of business, so this is no idle threat.
>
>2. The hassle and costs of gaining rights to such music is almost always
>not worth the effort, and most clients cannot afford the costs. We had one
>major client who wanted to use the music from a well known movie. He
>insisted. We told him that if we had a "hold harmless" letter, signed by a
>Sr. VP or higher official of the corporation, we use it. He did and we did.
>However, if there had been trouble, they would have had to pay a significant
>fine to the Feds.
>
>3. Generally, rely on "production music", which is available from many
>companies. Some will simply sell you "buy out" songs....you buy them, you
>own them, there are no additional fees. Other music libraries have a
>specific set of fees that apply under different circumstances, for
>commercial or duplication use, individual one time use, etc.
>
>4. You want to gamble your future because someone wants to use a known tune
>on their daughter's wedding, be my guest.
>
>Hope this helps!

It does. Then it brings up other questions, like what if a
popular song is played by a keyboardest? What about music
that's played at the reception? If you're just recording what
goes on in the room, can you get in trouble for selling someone
a recording of their own reception if a popular song is being
played and gets recorded along with everything else? If not,
that would open up some possibilities. If so, that certainly
would be a huge restriction in a lot of different areas....so
what's the deal in cases like that?

spl@ter.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:20:54 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:

>Under the circumstances you noted, you would be in the clear. In this case,
>you're simply an observer, similar to a TV station shooting news. Now the
>band...that's a different story...if they are completely legit...they've
>registered and have a blanket license from ASCAP and/or BMI.

What about things a DJ plays? If they're copyrighted, could it be
a problem even though it's really just ambient noise or whatever?
If not, couldn't we take anything the DJ plays and mix it into the
project wherever we want, or would it all have to match with the
video? That doesn't seem right though, that there would be such
a law about how you edit...

><spl@ter.> wrote in message
>news:.. .
>> On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:36:23 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>>
>>>This is a complex subject, but I'll try to give you 20 years of experience
>>>in a few short sentences:
>>>
>>>1. Virtually all popular music is copyrighted. It is protected by
>>>Federal
>>>Law and if you get caught using it in any project whatsoever, without have
>>>previously negotiated the rights for your particular project, you are
>>>subject to prosecution. A number of video/audio production companies have
>>>been put out of business, so this is no idle threat.
>>>
>>>2. The hassle and costs of gaining rights to such music is almost always
>>>not worth the effort, and most clients cannot afford the costs. We had
>>>one
>>>major client who wanted to use the music from a well known movie. He
>>>insisted. We told him that if we had a "hold harmless" letter, signed by
>>>a
>>>Sr. VP or higher official of the corporation, we use it. He did and we
>>>did.
>>>However, if there had been trouble, they would have had to pay a
>>>significant
>>>fine to the Feds.
>>>
>>>3. Generally, rely on "production music", which is available from many
>>>companies. Some will simply sell you "buy out" songs....you buy them, you
>>>own them, there are no additional fees. Other music libraries have a
>>>specific set of fees that apply under different circumstances, for
>>>commercial or duplication use, individual one time use, etc.
>>>
>>>4. You want to gamble your future because someone wants to use a known
>>>tune
>>>on their daughter's wedding, be my guest.
>>>
>>>Hope this helps!
>>
>> It does. Then it brings up other questions, like what if a
>> popular song is played by a keyboardest? What about music
>> that's played at the reception? If you're just recording what
>> goes on in the room, can you get in trouble for selling someone
>> a recording of their own reception if a popular song is being
>> played and gets recorded along with everything else? If not,
>> that would open up some possibilities. If so, that certainly
>> would be a huge restriction in a lot of different areas....so
>> what's the deal in cases like that?
>

spl@ter.

<spl@ter.> wrote in message
news:...
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:20:54 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>
>>Under the circumstances you noted, you would be in the clear. In this
>>case,
>>you're simply an observer, similar to a TV station shooting news. Now the
>>band...that's a different story...if they are completely legit...they've
>>registered and have a blanket license from ASCAP and/or BMI.
>
> What about things a DJ plays? If they're copyrighted, could it be
> a problem even though it's really just ambient noise or whatever?
> If not, couldn't we take anything the DJ plays and mix it into the
> project wherever we want, or would it all have to match with the
> video? That doesn't seem right though, that there would be such
> a law about how you edit...
>
>><spl@ter.> wrote in message
>>news:. ..
>>> On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:36:23 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>This is a complex subject, but I'll try to give you 20 years of
>>>>experience
>>>>in a few short sentences:
>>>>
>>>>1. Virtually all popular music is copyrighted. It is protected by
>>>>Federal
>>>>Law and if you get caught using it in any project whatsoever, without
>>>>have
>>>>previously negotiated the rights for your particular project, you are
>>>>subject to prosecution. A number of video/audio production companies
>>>>have
>>>>been put out of business, so this is no idle threat.
>>>>
>>>>2. The hassle and costs of gaining rights to such music is almost
>>>>always
>>>>not worth the effort, and most clients cannot afford the costs. We had
>>>>one
>>>>major client who wanted to use the music from a well known movie. He
>>>>insisted. We told him that if we had a "hold harmless" letter, signed
>>>>by
>>>>a
>>>>Sr. VP or higher official of the corporation, we use it. He did and we
>>>>did.
>>>>However, if there had been trouble, they would have had to pay a
>>>>significant
>>>>fine to the Feds.
>>>>
>>>>3. Generally, rely on "production music", which is available from many
>>>>companies. Some will simply sell you "buy out" songs....you buy them,
>>>>you
>>>>own them, there are no additional fees. Other music libraries have a
>>>>specific set of fees that apply under different circumstances, for
>>>>commercial or duplication use, individual one time use, etc.
>>>>
>>>>4. You want to gamble your future because someone wants to use a known
>>>>tune
>>>>on their daughter's wedding, be my guest.
>>>>
>>>>Hope this helps!
>>>
>>> It does. Then it brings up other questions, like what if a
>>> popular song is played by a keyboardest? What about music
>>> that's played at the reception? If you're just recording what
>>> goes on in the room, can you get in trouble for selling someone
>>> a recording of their own reception if a popular song is being
>>> played and gets recorded along with everything else? If not,
>>> that would open up some possibilities. If so, that certainly
>>> would be a huge restriction in a lot of different areas....so
>>> what's the deal in cases like that?
>>

Telstar

<spl@ter.> wrote in message
news:...
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:20:54 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>
>>Under the circumstances you noted, you would be in the clear. In this
>>case,
>>you're simply an observer, similar to a TV station shooting news. Now the
>>band...that's a different story...if they are completely legit...they've
>>registered and have a blanket license from ASCAP and/or BMI.
>
> What about things a DJ plays? If they're copyrighted, could it be
> a problem even though it's really just ambient noise or whatever?
> If not, couldn't we take anything the DJ plays and mix it into the
> project wherever we want, or would it all have to match with the
> video? That doesn't seem right though, that there would be such
> a law about how you edit...


No, you can do none of this. It is not ambinet, it is intentional use, and
you are intentionally recording it. The former poster is mostly correct,
but even if a professional company happens to copy ambinent music, they ALSO
must get clearance for reproduction. There are many cases that such music
is blocked out, just as video of trademarked logos and items must be blocked
from reproduced videos. I assume all of this is for profit and commerical.

Telstar

"Telstar" <> wrote in message
news:get9p3$sph$...
>
> <spl@ter.> wrote in message
> news:...
>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:20:54 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>>
>>>Under the circumstances you noted, you would be in the clear. In this
>>>case,
>>>you're simply an observer, similar to a TV station shooting news. Now
>>>the
>>>band...that's a different story...if they are completely legit...they've
>>>registered and have a blanket license from ASCAP and/or BMI.
>>
>> What about things a DJ plays? If they're copyrighted, could it be
>> a problem even though it's really just ambient noise or whatever?
>> If not, couldn't we take anything the DJ plays and mix it into the
>> project wherever we want, or would it all have to match with the
>> video? That doesn't seem right though, that there would be such
>> a law about how you edit...
>
>
> No, you can do none of this. It is not ambinet, it is intentional use,
> and you are intentionally recording it. The former poster is mostly
> correct, but even if a professional company happens to copy ambinent
> music, they ALSO must get clearance for reproduction. There are many
> cases that such music is blocked out, just as video of trademarked logos
> and items must be blocked from reproduced videos. I assume all of this is
> for profit and commerical.
>
>
>
>
>

NOTE: If the capture is a snippet (actual term used by the Library of
Congress), it might get by. It is like quoting a passage from a book.

Because of the DMCA and other revisions, it really is required to hire a
copyright lawyer in this case...something I am not. I just read alot.

Telstar

"Telstar" <> wrote in message
news:getai3$tbs$...
>
> "Telstar" <> wrote in message
> news:get9p3$sph$...
>>
>> <spl@ter.> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:20:54 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Under the circumstances you noted, you would be in the clear. In this
>>>>case,
>>>>you're simply an observer, similar to a TV station shooting news. Now
>>>>the
>>>>band...that's a different story...if they are completely legit...they've
>>>>registered and have a blanket license from ASCAP and/or BMI.
>>>
>>> What about things a DJ plays? If they're copyrighted, could it be
>>> a problem even though it's really just ambient noise or whatever?
>>> If not, couldn't we take anything the DJ plays and mix it into the
>>> project wherever we want, or would it all have to match with the
>>> video? That doesn't seem right though, that there would be such
>>> a law about how you edit...
>>
>>
>> No, you can do none of this. It is not ambinet, it is intentional use,
>> and you are intentionally recording it. The former poster is mostly
>> correct, but even if a professional company happens to copy ambinent
>> music, they ALSO must get clearance for reproduction. There are many
>> cases that such music is blocked out, just as video of trademarked logos
>> and items must be blocked from reproduced videos. I assume all of this
>> is for profit and commerical.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> NOTE: If the capture is a snippet (actual term used by the Library of
> Congress), it might get by. It is like quoting a passage from a book.
>
> Because of the DMCA and other revisions, it really is required to hire a
> copyright lawyer in this case...something I am not. I just read alot.
>
>

Just another note:

Miklos Rosza wrote a film score to "The Killers" that has a four-note
motive. This motive was later employed, without permission, as a signature
element of the TV series Dragnet. Rosza sued and won because the four-notes
were considered to create a signature element. Therefore, length and
purpose and stature all come into play with the pretty ambiguous copyright
laws.

Telstar

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:36:23 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:

>This is a complex subject, but I'll try to give you 20 years of experience
>in a few short sentences:
>
>1. Virtually all popular music is copyrighted. It is protected by Federal
>Law and if you get caught using it in any project whatsoever, without have
>previously negotiated the rights for your particular project, you are
>subject to prosecution.


Bullshit. I can dub in an accompanying soundtrack of any sleection(s)
I choose, and as long as I have no intent to market the product or any
copy thereof, I am fine. It is no different than our right to transfer
from an album to a cassette tape and listen to our own mix of songs. If
you ain't sellin' it, they ain't lookin' for royalties for its use.

> A number of video/audio production companies have
>been put out of business, so this is no idle threat.


That is an entirely different scenario from that which he outlined.

Short clips ARE permitted without the need for permission grants, even
on saleable goods.

If your video or production company utilized an entire piece on
marketed items, and did not get authorization, that is their fault.

AnimalMagic

On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:34:26 -0800, "Telstar" <> wrote:

>
>"Telstar" <> wrote in message
>news:get9p3$sph$...
>>
>> <spl@ter.> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:20:54 -0600, "Guru" <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Under the circumstances you noted, you would be in the clear. In this
>>>>case,
>>>>you're simply an observer, similar to a TV station shooting news. Now
>>>>the
>>>>band...that's a different story...if they are completely legit...they've
>>>>registered and have a blanket license from ASCAP and/or BMI.
>>>
>>> What about things a DJ plays? If they're copyrighted, could it be
>>> a problem even though it's really just ambient noise or whatever?
>>> If not, couldn't we take anything the DJ plays and mix it into the
>>> project wherever we want, or would it all have to match with the
>>> video? That doesn't seem right though, that there would be such
>>> a law about how you edit...
>>
>>
>> No, you can do none of this. It is not ambinet, it is intentional use,
>> and you are intentionally recording it. The former poster is mostly
>> correct, but even if a professional company happens to copy ambinent
>> music, they ALSO must get clearance for reproduction. There are many
>> cases that such music is blocked out, just as video of trademarked logos
>> and items must be blocked from reproduced videos. I assume all of this is
>> for profit and commerical.
>>
>>
>>
>>

Bands ARE allowed to play "covers" of any popular song from anywhere in
history. The *MAY* not be allowed to record said performance, and
subsequently sell copies of said recording.

>NOTE: If the capture is a snippet (actual term used by the Library of
>Congress), it might get by. It is like quoting a passage from a book.

"snippets" are allowed.

>Because of the DMCA and other revisions, it really is required to hire a
>copyright lawyer in this case...something I am not. I just read alot.
>

Does the DCMA cover media on pressed vinyl discs (albums)? Pure analog.

One would think not.

AnimalMagic