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Memory Question

 
 
William
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      09-28-2008
I am having memory problems. Some times my computer will boot and some
times it won't. Is there a difference in DDR and DDR1? My board supports DDR
400/333/266 Memory modules. I see the same specs on some modules with PC3200
added to the description. Will the memory still work? Thanks.
William


 
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Paul
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-28-2008
William wrote:
> I am having memory problems. Some times my computer will boot and some
> times it won't. Is there a difference in DDR and DDR1? My board supports DDR
> 400/333/266 Memory modules. I see the same specs on some modules with PC3200
> added to the description. Will the memory still work? Thanks.
> William
>


Memory types (ignores RDRAM)

EDO/FPM - uses no clock, performance measured in nanoseconds, i.e. 70ns RAM
SDRAM - uses a clock, PC133 clocked at 133MHz, 133*8 = 1064MB/sec
DDR - uses a clock, DDR266 clocked at 133MHz, 266*8 = PC2100 or 2128MB/sec
DDR2 - uses a clock, DDR2-533 clocked at 266MHz, 533*8 = PC2-4300 or 4264MB/sec
DDR3 - uses a clock, DDR3-1066 clocked at 533Mhz, 1066*8 = PC3-8500 or 8528MB/sec

In each of the DDR types, the DDR stands for "double data rate". Two
transfers are done per clock cycle. The "DDR266" description, says
how many million times per second, that a transfer is done on the
memory interface. There are 8 bytes on the module (module is 64 bits
wide), and thus the arithmetic on the right, to work out the
megabytes transferred per second. The PCxxxx convention, is
a shorthand for the theoretical bandwidth offered.

Faster memory can be used for slower applications. A PC3200 stick
operates at DDR400, but is also comfortable operating at DDR333,
DDR266, or DDR200. So yes, a PC3200 stick could cover your
DDR needs.

The same applies to the other memory. I believe some of the fastest
DDR3 may have some restrictions on very slow operation.

Since you made no mention of the brand and model number of computer,
or the brand and model number of motherboard, it is hard to offer
specific advice.

You can test memory with memtest86+ from memtest.org . There
are versions that can be loaded on a floppy, or burned to a
CD.

You can also use Prime95 from mersenne.org, to test the computer
while you're booted in Windows. The test is called the
"Torture Test", and you don't need to "join gimps" to
use it.

The only part of the memory that cannot be tested, is the
"BIOS reserved" sections, which are relatively small areas.
You'd need a real memory tester machine (factory type), to
test every last byte of the memory.

Chances are, there is more to your problem than just a memory
problem. You need to do things like visual inspection, as
well as using the above mentioned test programs, to get a better
idea what is broken. Sometimes bad capacitors on a motherboard,
can affect stability.

http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png

If the computer doesn't emit any beeps, when it fails
to POST, that could mean the processor had a problem
getting started. And any number of problems on the
motherboard, could cause that. So rather than needing
new memory, if could be a motherboard related issue.
Bad capacitors is just one example.

Paul
 
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William
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-01-2008

"Brian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>A faulty power supply can cause that problem also. I have swapped many for
> the same reason. Intermittent boot.
>
> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:gbopn1$22q$(E-Mail Removed)...
> William wrote:
>> I am having memory problems. Some times my computer will boot and some
>> times it won't. Is there a difference in DDR and DDR1? My board supports
>> DDR
>> 400/333/266 Memory modules. I see the same specs on some modules with
>> PC3200
>> added to the description. Will the memory still work? Thanks.
>> William
>>

>
> Memory types (ignores RDRAM)
>
> EDO/FPM - uses no clock, performance measured in nanoseconds, i.e. 70ns
> RAM
> SDRAM - uses a clock, PC133 clocked at 133MHz, 133*8 =
> 1064MB/sec
> DDR - uses a clock, DDR266 clocked at 133MHz, 266*8 = PC2100 or
> 2128MB/sec
> DDR2 - uses a clock, DDR2-533 clocked at 266MHz, 533*8 = PC2-4300 or
> 4264MB/sec
> DDR3 - uses a clock, DDR3-1066 clocked at 533Mhz, 1066*8 = PC3-8500 or
> 8528MB/sec
>
> In each of the DDR types, the DDR stands for "double data rate". Two
> transfers are done per clock cycle. The "DDR266" description, says
> how many million times per second, that a transfer is done on the
> memory interface. There are 8 bytes on the module (module is 64 bits
> wide), and thus the arithmetic on the right, to work out the
> megabytes transferred per second. The PCxxxx convention, is
> a shorthand for the theoretical bandwidth offered.
>
> Faster memory can be used for slower applications. A PC3200 stick
> operates at DDR400, but is also comfortable operating at DDR333,
> DDR266, or DDR200. So yes, a PC3200 stick could cover your
> DDR needs.
>
> The same applies to the other memory. I believe some of the fastest
> DDR3 may have some restrictions on very slow operation.
>
> Since you made no mention of the brand and model number of computer,
> or the brand and model number of motherboard, it is hard to offer
> specific advice.
>
> You can test memory with memtest86+ from memtest.org . There
> are versions that can be loaded on a floppy, or burned to a
> CD.
>
> You can also use Prime95 from mersenne.org, to test the computer
> while you're booted in Windows. The test is called the
> "Torture Test", and you don't need to "join gimps" to
> use it.
>
> The only part of the memory that cannot be tested, is the
> "BIOS reserved" sections, which are relatively small areas.
> You'd need a real memory tester machine (factory type), to
> test every last byte of the memory.
>
> Chances are, there is more to your problem than just a memory
> problem. You need to do things like visual inspection, as
> well as using the above mentioned test programs, to get a better
> idea what is broken. Sometimes bad capacitors on a motherboard,
> can affect stability.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png
>
> If the computer doesn't emit any beeps, when it fails
> to POST, that could mean the processor had a problem
> getting started. And any number of problems on the
> motherboard, could cause that. So rather than needing
> new memory, if could be a motherboard related issue.
> Bad capacitors is just one example.
>
> Paul


I did the memory test with memtest86+ and it showed some bad memory. I
took out the power supply and there was a lot of dust inside and some of the
parts seemed stuck together so I ordered and put in a new power supply and
was able to reinstall winXP on the primary drive. Everything seemed to work
fine so I hooked up my secondary hard drive and that is when everything
messed up. I unpluged the secondary hard drive and the computer starts
booting into windows and then a screen comes up saying windows is recovering
from a fault. It gives me the option to boot normally, boot into safe mode
and etc. I've tried all options seperately and the screen flashes and the
system just keeps on rebooting. Something else funny is the only way I can
get the machine to try to boot into windows at all is if I start from a cold
boot. I am thinking it might be a capacitor or the board is not making a
good ground. It's a new board but I guess some components could still be
bad. The only reason I am fooling with it at all is the cpu is a athlon A
socket and it the new motherboard I just bought has an A socket.
Unforturnately the A socket mother board is a dieing breed. Thanks for all
the help and if you can think of anything else I will try it.
William

>
>



 
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Paul
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-01-2008
William wrote:
> "Brian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> A faulty power supply can cause that problem also. I have swapped many for
>> the same reason. Intermittent boot.
>>
>> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:gbopn1$22q$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> William wrote:
>>> I am having memory problems. Some times my computer will boot and some
>>> times it won't. Is there a difference in DDR and DDR1? My board supports
>>> DDR
>>> 400/333/266 Memory modules. I see the same specs on some modules with
>>> PC3200
>>> added to the description. Will the memory still work? Thanks.
>>> William
>>>

>> Memory types (ignores RDRAM)
>>
>> EDO/FPM - uses no clock, performance measured in nanoseconds, i.e. 70ns
>> RAM
>> SDRAM - uses a clock, PC133 clocked at 133MHz, 133*8 =
>> 1064MB/sec
>> DDR - uses a clock, DDR266 clocked at 133MHz, 266*8 = PC2100 or
>> 2128MB/sec
>> DDR2 - uses a clock, DDR2-533 clocked at 266MHz, 533*8 = PC2-4300 or
>> 4264MB/sec
>> DDR3 - uses a clock, DDR3-1066 clocked at 533Mhz, 1066*8 = PC3-8500 or
>> 8528MB/sec
>>
>> In each of the DDR types, the DDR stands for "double data rate". Two
>> transfers are done per clock cycle. The "DDR266" description, says
>> how many million times per second, that a transfer is done on the
>> memory interface. There are 8 bytes on the module (module is 64 bits
>> wide), and thus the arithmetic on the right, to work out the
>> megabytes transferred per second. The PCxxxx convention, is
>> a shorthand for the theoretical bandwidth offered.
>>
>> Faster memory can be used for slower applications. A PC3200 stick
>> operates at DDR400, but is also comfortable operating at DDR333,
>> DDR266, or DDR200. So yes, a PC3200 stick could cover your
>> DDR needs.
>>
>> The same applies to the other memory. I believe some of the fastest
>> DDR3 may have some restrictions on very slow operation.
>>
>> Since you made no mention of the brand and model number of computer,
>> or the brand and model number of motherboard, it is hard to offer
>> specific advice.
>>
>> You can test memory with memtest86+ from memtest.org . There
>> are versions that can be loaded on a floppy, or burned to a
>> CD.
>>
>> You can also use Prime95 from mersenne.org, to test the computer
>> while you're booted in Windows. The test is called the
>> "Torture Test", and you don't need to "join gimps" to
>> use it.
>>
>> The only part of the memory that cannot be tested, is the
>> "BIOS reserved" sections, which are relatively small areas.
>> You'd need a real memory tester machine (factory type), to
>> test every last byte of the memory.
>>
>> Chances are, there is more to your problem than just a memory
>> problem. You need to do things like visual inspection, as
>> well as using the above mentioned test programs, to get a better
>> idea what is broken. Sometimes bad capacitors on a motherboard,
>> can affect stability.
>>
>> http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png
>>
>> If the computer doesn't emit any beeps, when it fails
>> to POST, that could mean the processor had a problem
>> getting started. And any number of problems on the
>> motherboard, could cause that. So rather than needing
>> new memory, if could be a motherboard related issue.
>> Bad capacitors is just one example.
>>
>> Paul

>
> I did the memory test with memtest86+ and it showed some bad memory. I
> took out the power supply and there was a lot of dust inside and some of the
> parts seemed stuck together so I ordered and put in a new power supply and
> was able to reinstall winXP on the primary drive. Everything seemed to work
> fine so I hooked up my secondary hard drive and that is when everything
> messed up. I unpluged the secondary hard drive and the computer starts
> booting into windows and then a screen comes up saying windows is recovering
> from a fault. It gives me the option to boot normally, boot into safe mode
> and etc. I've tried all options seperately and the screen flashes and the
> system just keeps on rebooting. Something else funny is the only way I can
> get the machine to try to boot into windows at all is if I start from a cold
> boot. I am thinking it might be a capacitor or the board is not making a
> good ground. It's a new board but I guess some components could still be
> bad. The only reason I am fooling with it at all is the cpu is a athlon A
> socket and it the new motherboard I just bought has an A socket.
> Unforturnately the A socket mother board is a dieing breed. Thanks for all
> the help and if you can think of anything else I will try it.
> William
>


Put the old power supply back in the computer.

You didn't say what motherboard you were using. My A7N8X-E Deluxe, draws
processor power from +5V. So if I want to buy a new power supply for
that machine, I need to consider the +5V rating. With the video card
present in the machine, I would need a supply with a 5V @ 25A rating.
Many new supplies are weaker on +5V and stronger on +12V.

Some S462 (socket A) boards, had switched to using +12V to operate
the Vcore regulator for the processor. If the motherboard has the
square connector (ATX12V 2x2) with two yellow wires and two black
wires, then at least that 70W load is no longer coming from +5V.
In the case of a motherboard like that, it is possible most modern
power supplies will work well with it.

For the S462 boards that don't have the 2x2 square connector,
then you'd want to shop more carefully. Enermax made a couple
of good ones, and I cannot find the other one right now. The
way this works, is the individual rails have good current ratings,
but all rails cannot be heavily loaded at the same time. (The
total power spec of 350W tells you that.) But whether a S462
board loads only the 5V rail, or a P4 board loads the 12V rail
and one other, this supply design concept is good for both.
The main limitation, is when you try to exceed the 350W number.
(Which is why I was looking for the other model, like a 465 or
something.)

+3.3V @ 32A, +5V @ 32A, +12V @ 26A, -5V @ 1A, -12V @ 1A, +5VSB @ 2.2A 350W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103455

The only reason I mention it, is it sounds like the supply is about
to blow on my computer I'm getting some strange noises, so it is time
to stop using it, at least for the moment.

Paul
 
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William
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-04-2008

"Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:gc0m26$tst$(E-Mail Removed)...
> William wrote:
>> "Brian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> A faulty power supply can cause that problem also. I have swapped many
>>> for
>>> the same reason. Intermittent boot.
>>>
>>> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:gbopn1$22q$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> William wrote:
>>>> I am having memory problems. Some times my computer will boot and
>>>> some
>>>> times it won't. Is there a difference in DDR and DDR1? My board
>>>> supports
>>>> DDR
>>>> 400/333/266 Memory modules. I see the same specs on some modules with
>>>> PC3200
>>>> added to the description. Will the memory still work? Thanks.
>>>> William
>>>>
>>> Memory types (ignores RDRAM)
>>>
>>> EDO/FPM - uses no clock, performance measured in nanoseconds, i.e. 70ns
>>> RAM
>>> SDRAM - uses a clock, PC133 clocked at 133MHz, 133*8 =
>>> 1064MB/sec
>>> DDR - uses a clock, DDR266 clocked at 133MHz, 266*8 = PC2100
>>> or
>>> 2128MB/sec
>>> DDR2 - uses a clock, DDR2-533 clocked at 266MHz, 533*8 = PC2-4300
>>> or
>>> 4264MB/sec
>>> DDR3 - uses a clock, DDR3-1066 clocked at 533Mhz, 1066*8 = PC3-8500
>>> or
>>> 8528MB/sec
>>>
>>> In each of the DDR types, the DDR stands for "double data rate". Two
>>> transfers are done per clock cycle. The "DDR266" description, says
>>> how many million times per second, that a transfer is done on the
>>> memory interface. There are 8 bytes on the module (module is 64 bits
>>> wide), and thus the arithmetic on the right, to work out the
>>> megabytes transferred per second. The PCxxxx convention, is
>>> a shorthand for the theoretical bandwidth offered.
>>>
>>> Faster memory can be used for slower applications. A PC3200 stick
>>> operates at DDR400, but is also comfortable operating at DDR333,
>>> DDR266, or DDR200. So yes, a PC3200 stick could cover your
>>> DDR needs.
>>>
>>> The same applies to the other memory. I believe some of the fastest
>>> DDR3 may have some restrictions on very slow operation.
>>>
>>> Since you made no mention of the brand and model number of computer,
>>> or the brand and model number of motherboard, it is hard to offer
>>> specific advice.
>>>
>>> You can test memory with memtest86+ from memtest.org . There
>>> are versions that can be loaded on a floppy, or burned to a
>>> CD.
>>>
>>> You can also use Prime95 from mersenne.org, to test the computer
>>> while you're booted in Windows. The test is called the
>>> "Torture Test", and you don't need to "join gimps" to
>>> use it.
>>>
>>> The only part of the memory that cannot be tested, is the
>>> "BIOS reserved" sections, which are relatively small areas.
>>> You'd need a real memory tester machine (factory type), to
>>> test every last byte of the memory.
>>>
>>> Chances are, there is more to your problem than just a memory
>>> problem. You need to do things like visual inspection, as
>>> well as using the above mentioned test programs, to get a better
>>> idea what is broken. Sometimes bad capacitors on a motherboard,
>>> can affect stability.
>>>
>>> http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png
>>>
>>> If the computer doesn't emit any beeps, when it fails
>>> to POST, that could mean the processor had a problem
>>> getting started. And any number of problems on the
>>> motherboard, could cause that. So rather than needing
>>> new memory, if could be a motherboard related issue.
>>> Bad capacitors is just one example.
>>>
>>> Paul

>>
>> I did the memory test with memtest86+ and it showed some bad memory.
>> I
>> took out the power supply and there was a lot of dust inside and some of
>> the
>> parts seemed stuck together so I ordered and put in a new power supply
>> and
>> was able to reinstall winXP on the primary drive. Everything seemed to
>> work
>> fine so I hooked up my secondary hard drive and that is when everything
>> messed up. I unpluged the secondary hard drive and the computer starts
>> booting into windows and then a screen comes up saying windows is
>> recovering
>> from a fault. It gives me the option to boot normally, boot into safe
>> mode
>> and etc. I've tried all options seperately and the screen flashes and the
>> system just keeps on rebooting. Something else funny is the only way I
>> can
>> get the machine to try to boot into windows at all is if I start from a
>> cold
>> boot. I am thinking it might be a capacitor or the board is not making a
>> good ground. It's a new board but I guess some components could still be
>> bad. The only reason I am fooling with it at all is the cpu is a athlon A
>> socket and it the new motherboard I just bought has an A socket.
>> Unforturnately the A socket mother board is a dieing breed. Thanks for
>> all
>> the help and if you can think of anything else I will try it.
>> William
>>

>
> Put the old power supply back in the computer.
>
> You didn't say what motherboard you were using. My A7N8X-E Deluxe, draws
> processor power from +5V. So if I want to buy a new power supply for
> that machine, I need to consider the +5V rating. With the video card
> present in the machine, I would need a supply with a 5V @ 25A rating.
> Many new supplies are weaker on +5V and stronger on +12V.
>
> Some S462 (socket A) boards, had switched to using +12V to operate
> the Vcore regulator for the processor. If the motherboard has the
> square connector (ATX12V 2x2) with two yellow wires and two black
> wires, then at least that 70W load is no longer coming from +5V.
> In the case of a motherboard like that, it is possible most modern
> power supplies will work well with it.
>
> For the S462 boards that don't have the 2x2 square connector,
> then you'd want to shop more carefully. Enermax made a couple
> of good ones, and I cannot find the other one right now. The
> way this works, is the individual rails have good current ratings,
> but all rails cannot be heavily loaded at the same time. (The
> total power spec of 350W tells you that.) But whether a S462
> board loads only the 5V rail, or a P4 board loads the 12V rail
> and one other, this supply design concept is good for both.
> The main limitation, is when you try to exceed the 350W number.
> (Which is why I was looking for the other model, like a 465 or
> something.)
>
> +3.3V @ 32A, +5V @ 32A, +12V @ 26A, -5V @ 1A, -12V @ 1A, +5VSB @ 2.2A
> 350W
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103455
>
> The only reason I mention it, is it sounds like the supply is about
> to blow on my computer I'm getting some strange noises, so it is time
> to stop using it, at least for the moment.
>
> Paul


Paul
This relates back to my other post about bios checksum error. I got a new
mother board PC Chips M848A. Had memory problem. Was using original cpu,
power supply and video card. Got a new power supply and after installation
that's when I was able to use the winXP cd to reinstall. Windows came up and
everything was back to normal so I pushed my luck and tried to hook up my
second hard drive. Everything screwed up. I will have to remove the power
supply to be able to see the specs. I will post them so you can take a look.
You might be on the right track about new power supply not having enough
power. Could have been the problem with the old one also. Thanks for your
help.

William


 
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