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Developing under Ubuntu

 
 
Arne Vajhøj
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      09-01-2008
RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> Nigel Wade wrote:
>> it may be OpenJDK but I've not checked recently what state OpenJDK has
>> reached.

>
> I haven't tried OpenJDK. The material I've read suggests that a few
> 3rd-party-proprietary parts of the class libraries may not yet have been
> rewritten.


OpenJDK is SUN Dragon - just with an almost all pieces that could not be
open sourced overruled.

And it is working inconspicious on Linux.

Arne



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its correct role in regards to the United States."

-- Warren Christopher
January 25, 1993
Clinton's Secretary of State


 
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Nigel Wade
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      09-01-2008
Andrew Thompson wrote:

> On Aug 31, 11:43*pm, Harold Shand <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> ...
>> Fedora is RedHat (they're both hats, get it?).

>
> I do now you tell me.*
>
> * Know that a Fedora is a hat and thereby get
> the connection.
>
>>..Fedora is the free version.

>
> Aha! I had stupidly assumed that every 'name' of
> a Linux OS was available as a free version.


Fedora is sponsored by RedHat, and many of RedHat's developers work on Fedora.
It is used by RedHat as a bleeding edge testbed for potentially new components
to include in their mainstream RHEL product. One main difference is that Fedora
is completely derived from FOSS (this can be to the detriment of Fedora in some
cases) whereas RHEL may include non-FOSS components. The development/release
cycle for Fedora is rapid. A new release comes out every 6 months. Support is a
max of 13 months. So you have to do a major upgrade once a year if you want
security updates and bug fixes.

One of the areas where, IMHO, Fedora suffers from its obsession with FOSS is
Java. Because Sun release Java under a license which is too restrictive for the
Fedora management they won't include Sun's Java. In the past this has lead them
to package the abomination called gcj. The situation improved somewhat with
JPackage. This provided an external mechanism for you to build your own Java
RPMs with Sun's Java which were compatible with Fedora and could be integrated
with the Fedora "alternatives" mechanism. I'm not sure what Fedora now include,
it may be OpenJDK but I've not checked recently what state OpenJDK has reached.

RedHat's main product, RHEL is only supposed to be used in conjunction with a
support agreement from RedHat. The software is actually free, what you pay for
is support. You can download a 30 day evaluation copy of RHEL and use it. You
are supposed to remove it after 30 days if you don't purchase support, but it
won't stop working. You won't, however, be able to access the RHN download
centre to get any security updates. You can also freely download the source for
RHEL and build it yourself. There are a couple of free distros. of RHEL which
do exactly this, Centos and White Hat. They also provide updates by downloading
and building the RedHat update source.

RHEL's emphasis is on reliability and stability. It's used on production servers
all around the world where admins. need to know the systems will keep running.
It has a much longer product testing and development cycle (roughly every 2
years for a new release) and will be supported for 7 years.

>
> If I decide to go with it, I will be looking to
> use the free version.
>


There are many free distros. Choosing one is an art. Asking for recommendations
on a Linux NG is one of the best ways of starting a flame-war on Usenet. Many
distros. have live CDs which you can download, burn and boot from. These allow
you to get an idea of how the distro. runs without having to install anything.

One thing you will almost certainly find is that the distro you prefer to begin
with won't be the one you are running in a years time. You will most likely
start with the one with the L&F which most closely resembles what you are used
to (Windows presumably). Over time you will more than likely gravitate to a
distro which offers you more flexibility and control. It's wise to stick to the
mainstream distros. They have better support, so bug fixes come out quicker,
and new hardware is likely to be supported on those distros. first.

Your choice of CPU (Intel dual core) is most likely 64bit. If you mean the
Core2Duo, it is 64bit and should run pretty much any 32bit or 64bit Linux
distro. With a 64bit distro and 64bit JDK you can access large amounts of RAM
in Java. The largest system I currently have has 32GB, of which I can access
every bit in Java (although this system is Opteron not Intel).

Be aware, though, that Sun have still not produced a 64bit plugin for browsers.
Whether they ever will is unknown. Some distros provide a 32bit execution
environment with their 64bit distros (RHEL is one, don't know about Fedora)
which allows you to run 32bit apps. Although it's not supported by RedHat this
does allow you to install and run a 32bit Firefox RPM. There is also a plugin
wrapper (nspluginwrapper) which allows you to run 32bit plugins in a 64bit
browsers. RedHat now provide support for this in RHEL5.

If your choice of distro. doesn't include a Sun JDK and you want to use that
together with an IDE your simplest option is probably to download and install
one of the Netbeans/JDK bundles. This will give you both Netbeans and the Sun
JDK.

--
Nigel Wade
 
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RedGrittyBrick
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      09-01-2008

Nigel Wade wrote:
>
> One of the areas where, IMHO, Fedora suffers from its obsession with FOSS is
> Java. Because Sun release Java under a license which is too restrictive for the
> Fedora management they won't include Sun's Java. In the past this has lead them
> to package the abomination called gcj. The situation improved somewhat with
> JPackage. This provided an external mechanism for you to build your own Java
> RPMs with Sun's Java which were compatible with Fedora and could be integrated
> with the Fedora "alternatives" mechanism. I'm not sure what Fedora now include,


"As of May 2008, the Fedora 9 and Ubuntu 8.04 distributions were
released with OpenJDK" -- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK>


> it may be OpenJDK but I've not checked recently what state OpenJDK has reached.


I haven't tried OpenJDK. The material I've read suggests that a few
3rd-party-proprietary parts of the class libraries may not yet have been
rewritten.

--
RGB
 
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Arne Vajhøj
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-01-2008
RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> Nigel Wade wrote:
>> it may be OpenJDK but I've not checked recently what state OpenJDK has
>> reached.

>
> I haven't tried OpenJDK. The material I've read suggests that a few
> 3rd-party-proprietary parts of the class libraries may not yet have been
> rewritten.


OpenJDK is SUN Java - just with a few pieces that could not be
open sourced replaced.

And it is working fine on Linux.

Arne
 
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Tom Anderson
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      09-01-2008
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008, Arne Vajhj wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> CentOS is also the free version of Red Hat, but it is not a kind of hat. As
>> far as i know.
>>
>> I don't really understand the relationship between CentOS and Fedora.

>
> Things get tested in Fedora Core. When they are stable enough they go
> into RHEL.
>
> And then the go automatically into CentOS since CentOS copy
> everything RHEL does.


Aha, thanks. I didn't realise Fedora was a testbed for Red Hat in that
way.

tom

--
Our only chance for survival is better engineering. -- James Dyson
 
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Marcelo Morales
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      09-01-2008
On Sep 1, 10:25 am, Arne Vajhj <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> OpenJDK is SUN Java - just with a few pieces that could not be
> open sourced replaced.
>
> And it is working fine on Linux.
>


Fedora and ubuntu openjdk is 1.6.0-b09, the latest and greatest from
the openjdk project is b11. Next ubuntu version 8.10 (due in a month)
comes with b11.
AFAIK there were a couple of nasty bugs in b09, so I would stick with
sun's download until then.
BTW, I like ubuntu (and a couple of other debian-based) better than
fedora (or any other redhat-based).

MM
 
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Arne Vajhj
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      09-01-2008
Jonas McDuncan wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> CentOS is also the free version of Red Hat, but it is not a kind of
>>> hat. As far as i know.
>>>
>>> I don't really understand the relationship between CentOS and Fedora.

>>
>> Things get tested in Fedora Core. When they are stable enough they go
>> into RHEL.
>>
>> And then the go automatically into CentOS since CentOS copy
>> everything RHEL does.

>
> Aha, thanks. I didn't realise Fedora was a testbed for Red Hat in that way.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RHEL#Re...bazar_contexts

shows the inactivity.

Oris


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Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that
Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing."
(NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).

 
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Ken
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      09-01-2008
On Aug 31, 4:30*am, Andrew Thompson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I am about to gain a new box*, and am (almost) determined
> never to infest it with anything Microsoft. *As such, I am looking
> at Linux based options for an OS, and have heard good things
> about Ubuntu.
>
> Do the Java tools (SDK, and beyond that, Ant) work OK on
> Ubuntu?
>
> Are there other recommendations for OS' for developing Java?
>
> (Besides Java development, it would be handy to have an OS that
> is very 'media friendly' - but I guess/hope most OS' are, these days.)
>
> * It will be a relatively standard unit, using an Intel (32 bit) dual
> core CPU, probably on an ASUS P5K motherboard.
>
> --
> Andrew Thompsonhttp://pscode.org/


Ubuntu is a very nice OS. It is the first Linux distribution that I
personally found to be very intuitive and from the numbers many others
agree. It is easy enough, that people who have no previous experience
with Linux can be as productive as a Windows environment. Although I
do feel there is a bit of set up, mostly installing software for them.

My favorite feature by far is the "Add/Remove Applications"
application aka the "Synaptic Package Manager". They are not exactly
equivalent the Add/Remove a more user friendly front end to Synaptic
which lists the more popular applications by type and rates by
popularity. These tools can download and install Eclipse or Netbeans
with a single click. It can download one of several Java Virtual
Machines and more less any other tool you could want... tools to play
video, audio... well anything.

These are issues that I foresee:
Hardware compatibility can still be a pain. Personally Graphics cards
and Wireless Network cards have caused the most pain, simply buy ones
that are supported... This page will help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
I know many things that work which are not on those lists... but you
might not get full functionality, a graphic card for example may work
with VGA out but not DVI out, or it might not auto detect a TV
correctly... although this might not seem important right away little
hardware wrinkles like this cause a lot of head banging.

Further once you are running Ubuntu you might want to know what JVM
you are using and be able to switch between them...
See this page: http://blog.mypapit.net/2007/10/how-...gnu-linux.html

Your goal of not needing windows on the box is very reasonable. I
have nothing against them, except for the pain of reinstalling them
after a crash... having not bought them complicates matters sometimes.
I have not needed to use windows for anything in over two years (not
even tempted to). At it's current stage I feel Ubuntu Linux is first
rate OS, superior to Windows XP (never used Vista).
 
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Lionel van den Berg
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      09-01-2008
On Aug 31, 10:35*pm, Andrew Thompson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Aug 31, 9:53*pm, "Qu0ll" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > ...IMHO Fedora 9 is a better desktop Linux than Ubuntu.

>
> What advantages do you see Fedora 9 having over Ubuntu?
>
> And to Lionel (sorry to drag this even further OT!),
> similar question* for Mandriva (to be honest, I was
> originally asking this question thinking Ubuntu, SuSE
> or RedHat would be the 'winner' but had not considered
> Fedora and had never heard of Mandriva till this moment).


And sorry about the slow response, took a while to get back here.

> I got from your post that Mandriva ..
> - runs perfectly (which I read as robust and well engineered)


Very user focussed.

> - is more polished.
> * Can you name a couple of (any) little things that
> led you to the conclusion that Mandriva was more polished?


Mandriva has a massive suite of administration tools in the "Mandriva
Control Centre" that are priceless if you aren't a linux geek and even
if you are. Even people who don't like Mandriva give credit to these
tools. The original Mandriva was called mandrake and was based on Red
Hat. In my opinion Red Hat/Fedora is one of the worst distro's
available, but it depends on what you want of it.

Mandriva has a huge range of packages available and an excellent tool
for search packages. It is simple to set up sources, configure video
cards etc. Of course in some cases I am taking this for granted
because I know exactly where to look, but it is generally intuitive.
The KDE start menu has a better layout (although they took a step
backwards recently, there is a second innovative option for start menu
layout that I don't like but most others do) and you can choose from a
huge variety of window managers. However it is a big download, about 4
gig.

There is also an excellent newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva.

At the end of the day it comes down to preferences, but if you are
relatively new to linux it is an excellent starting point and you can
branch out later.

Hope this helps

Lionel.
 
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Arne Vajhj
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      09-01-2008
Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008, Arne Vajhj wrote:
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> CentOS is also the free version of Red Hat, but it is not a kind of
>>> hat. As far as i know.
>>>
>>> I don't really understand the relationship between CentOS and Fedora.

>>
>> Things get tested in Fedora Core. When they are stable enough they go
>> into RHEL.
>>
>> And then the go automatically into CentOS since CentOS copy
>> everything RHEL does.

>
> Aha, thanks. I didn't realise Fedora was a testbed for Red Hat in that way.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RHEL#Re..._distributions

shows the relationship.

Arne
 
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