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Armenian - PHP and MySQL

 
 
cwdjrxyz
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-25-2008
On Aug 24, 4:40*pm, Adrienne Boswell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writing innews:apjsk.55171$(E-Mail Removed) ti.fi:
>
> > cwdjrxyz wrote:

>
> >> The Armenian text works using the most recent versions of IE7,
> >> Firefox, Seamonkey, Flock, Opera, and Safari for Windows, all on the
> >> Windows XP OS sp3.

>
> > There's not much difference to be expected between them, as this is
> > primarily a font issue.

>
> > Regarding my previous note about fonts, I did not realize that Sylfaen
> > is shipped with Windows XP and Vista, making it rather widespread.

>
> I didn't know that either.
>
>
>
> > There's the risk that IE 6 does not get this right, unless you help it
> > by explicitly declaring Sylfaen for the Armenian text. It may fail the
> > fallback part. Testing on IE 6 is far more important in this case than
> > playing with Flock or Safari for example.

>
> I've tested it on IE6, and it seems to be fine.
>
>
>
> > The real problem would be people using older Windows systems. They
> > probably don't have Sylfaen, but they quite often have Arial Unicode
> > MS (since they have Office). This raises a problem because these fonts
> > are rather different.

>
> Yes, they certainly are. *Sylfaen is much larger than Arial Unicode.
>
>
>
> > Armenian letters are often smaller than Latin letters in the same font
> > (for the same font size).

>
> We could go on... it's bad enough that "web deezinerz" use tiny font
> sized, imagine what would happen if they got a hold of Armenian? *Oh,
> the humanity!
>
> > For Sylfaen, they match the size and style
> > of lowercase Latin letters rather well. However, if the copy text font
> > is Arial or (gasp!) Verdana, Armenian letters look rather small when
> > they have been taken from Sylfaen (as Arial and Verdana don't contain
> > them). And if you combine Latin letters in Arial (or Arial Unicode MS)
> > and Armenian letters in Arial Unicode MS, the size difference is so
> > big that the effect is grotesque.

>
> Yup.
>
>
>
> > Actually I would consider using Sylfaen as the primary font for all
> > normal text if the text contains Armenian letters. It looks rather
> > nice. When Sylfaen is not available, the browser's default font would
> > be used of course, so maybe
> > body { font-family: Sylfaen, Arial Unicode MS }
> > would be a practical choice, but then the site would have to be tested
> > using both fonts, as they are so different in their nature. Of course
> > the site would have to be flexibly designed, not based on some font's
> > specific properties.

>
> I liked the Sylfaen font, so I changed the body to use it, with regular
> Arial and sans-serif as fallback. *The .armenian class bumps the
> Armenian text to 105%, not too large of a difference for those with
> Sylfaen font, and large enough for the Arial Unicode MS people.
>
>
>
> >> There are sites where you can get screen shots using several older
> >> and less common browsers, and using OSs other than Windows.

>
> > I'm sceptic about such services especially since this is basically a
> > font problem and we cannot really know how those services use fonts.

>
> I agree, and as I stated earlier, users who can read Armenian probably
> have systems that can handle it. *I doubt if Sarkis Jr. would give
> Sarkis Sr. a web tv if it couldn't handle Armenian.



Earlier in this thread I mentioned that you could use the gd extension
to make a transparent png of just about any text you wish. I wanted to
show how easy it is to do with a specific example. Go to
http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.php and view the text for the gd php
code at http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.php.txt . Also you need a font
file for the old Anglo Saxon font loaded on the server. Notice that
you can write the text at any angle, if desired. To get an actual png,
you can right click the image and select to download to your computer.
But make sure to change the extension to png rather than php before or
after you download. The 800 x 400 transparent png for this text image
is only about 10 KB, and you could put a lot more text of more normal
size in the same area. But you do not even have to download the image
at all. See http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAStestpage.php . Right click
and view the source code and note the address of the image which is
the gd php image file we generated before and is called to bring up
the image. The advantage of this method is that you do not have to
worry what fonts a viewing browser might support, although for your
application this seems to be no great problem. I viewed the page on
all of the browsers mentioned before, and all worked fine. Thus even
Sarkis Sr. could view Armenian text on an old WebTV if he wanted
to . If you had viewers with very old browsers for which png does
not work, you could use gif instead. Of course people can turn images
off, so one might need to state that images must be turned on to see
the Armenian.

 
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cwdjrxyz
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-25-2008
On Aug 25, 1:59*am, cwdjrxyz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> view the text for the gd php code a http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.php.txt.


The correct url is http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.txt .
 
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Adrienne Boswell
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-25-2008
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed cwdjrxyz <(E-Mail Removed)>
writing in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Aug 24, 4:40*pm, Adrienne Boswell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> writing
>> innews:apjsk.55171$(E-Mail Removed)

> unalahti.fi:
>>
>> > cwdjrxyz wrote:

>>
>> >> The Armenian text works using the most recent versions of IE7,
>> >> Firefox, Seamonkey, Flock, Opera, and Safari for Windows, all on
>> >> the Windows XP OS sp3.

>>
>> > There's not much difference to be expected between them, as this is
>> > primarily a font issue.

>>
>> > Regarding my previous note about fonts, I did not realize that
>> > Sylfaen is shipped with Windows XP and Vista, making it rather
>> > widespread.

>>
>> I didn't know that either.
>>
>>
>>
>> > There's the risk that IE 6 does not get this right, unless you help
>> > it by explicitly declaring Sylfaen for the Armenian text. It may
>> > fail the fallback part. Testing on IE 6 is far more important in
>> > this case than playing with Flock or Safari for example.

>>
>> I've tested it on IE6, and it seems to be fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> > The real problem would be people using older Windows systems. They
>> > probably don't have Sylfaen, but they quite often have Arial
>> > Unicode MS (since they have Office). This raises a problem because
>> > these fonts are rather different.

>>
>> Yes, they certainly are. *Sylfaen is much larger than Arial Unicode.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Armenian letters are often smaller than Latin letters in the same
>> > font (for the same font size).

>>
>> We could go on... it's bad enough that "web deezinerz" use tiny font
>> sized, imagine what would happen if they got a hold of Armenian? *Oh,
>> the humanity!
>>
>> > For Sylfaen, they match the size and style
>> > of lowercase Latin letters rather well. However, if the copy text
>> > font is Arial or (gasp!) Verdana, Armenian letters look rather
>> > small when they have been taken from Sylfaen (as Arial and Verdana
>> > don't contain them). And if you combine Latin letters in Arial (or
>> > Arial Unicode MS) and Armenian letters in Arial Unicode MS, the
>> > size difference is so big that the effect is grotesque.

>>
>> Yup.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Actually I would consider using Sylfaen as the primary font for all
>> > normal text if the text contains Armenian letters. It looks rather
>> > nice. When Sylfaen is not available, the browser's default font
>> > would be used of course, so maybe
>> > body { font-family: Sylfaen, Arial Unicode MS }
>> > would be a practical choice, but then the site would have to be
>> > tested using both fonts, as they are so different in their nature.
>> > Of course the site would have to be flexibly designed, not based on
>> > some font's specific properties.

>>
>> I liked the Sylfaen font, so I changed the body to use it, with
>> regular Arial and sans-serif as fallback. *The .armenian class bumps
>> the Armenian text to 105%, not too large of a difference for those
>> with Sylfaen font, and large enough for the Arial Unicode MS people.
>>
>>
>>
>> >> There are sites where you can get screen shots using several older
>> >> and less common browsers, and using OSs other than Windows.

>>
>> > I'm sceptic about such services especially since this is basically
>> > a font problem and we cannot really know how those services use
>> > fonts.

>>
>> I agree, and as I stated earlier, users who can read Armenian
>> probably have systems that can handle it. *I doubt if Sarkis Jr.
>> would give Sarkis Sr. a web tv if it couldn't handle Armenian.

>
>
> Earlier in this thread I mentioned that you could use the gd extension
> to make a transparent png of just about any text you wish. I wanted to
> show how easy it is to do with a specific example. Go to
> http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.php and view the text for the gd php
> code at http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.php.txt . Also you need a font
> file for the old Anglo Saxon font loaded on the server. Notice that
> you can write the text at any angle, if desired. To get an actual png,
> you can right click the image and select to download to your computer.
> But make sure to change the extension to png rather than php before or
> after you download. The 800 x 400 transparent png for this text image
> is only about 10 KB, and you could put a lot more text of more normal
> size in the same area. But you do not even have to download the image
> at all. See http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAStestpage.php . Right click
> and view the source code and note the address of the image which is
> the gd php image file we generated before and is called to bring up
> the image. The advantage of this method is that you do not have to
> worry what fonts a viewing browser might support, although for your
> application this seems to be no great problem. I viewed the page on
> all of the browsers mentioned before, and all worked fine. Thus even
> Sarkis Sr. could view Armenian text on an old WebTV if he wanted
> to . If you had viewers with very old browsers for which png does
> not work, you could use gif instead. Of course people can turn images
> off, so one might need to state that images must be turned on to see
> the Armenian.
>


I saw the text page, and will keep it as a snippet for the future.
Thank you.

However, I never did see the image. As I finished this sentence, my
browser still has not rendered it. I am on high speed cable, tried with
both Opera and IE - IE gave up with a not available error, and Opera I
think is still trying.

I think I am going to be just fine with text. I want search engines to
be able to index it, so I think that images are not going to be a good
way to go.

Opera is still trying... oh heck, I'm going to take it out of it's
misery.

Again, thanks for the code, and thanks for looking.


--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

 
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cwdjrxyz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-25-2008
On Aug 25, 3:17*am, Adrienne Boswell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> However, I never did see the image. As I finished this sentence, my
> browser still has not rendered it. *I am on high speed cable, tried with
> both Opera and IE - IE gave up with a not available error, and Opera I
> think is still trying.


I don't know why you do not see the image nearly at once. I just
checked with several browsers including IE and Opera that you used,
and the image popped up nearly at once on Windows XP sp3 connected
with ATT/Yahoo DSL Elite with usually about 5 Mbps download speed. The
site could have been down or very slow, but it very seldom is. Let me
know if you continue to be unable to see the image. I have recently
moved to a new server at the same host so that I could upgrade from
php 4 to php 5, but of course this should have nothing to do with the
viewing browser. Some security programs now block linking from one
domain to another that is not on the same server, but that is not the
case here - everything is on the same domain.


 
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cwdjrxyz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-25-2008
On Aug 25, 3:56*am, cwdjrxyz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 3:17*am, Adrienne Boswell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > However, I never did see the image. As I finished this sentence, my
> > browser still has not rendered it. *I am on high speed cable, tried with
> > both Opera and IE - IE gave up with a not available error, and Opera I
> > think is still trying.

>
> I don't know why you do not see the image nearly at once. I just
> checked with several browsers including IE and Opera that you used,
> and the image popped up nearly at once on Windows XP sp3 connected
> with ATT/Yahoo DSL Elite with usually about 5 Mbps download speed. The
> site could have been down or very slow, but it very seldom is. Let me
> know if you continue to be unable to see the image. I have recently
> moved to a new server at the same host so that I could upgrade from
> php 4 to php 5, but of course this should have nothing to do with the
> viewing browser. Some security programs now block linking from one
> domain to another that is not on the same server, but that is not the
> case here - everything is on the same domain.


I just checked the page http://www.cwdjr.net/php/ttfAS.php at
http://browsershots.org/ using both IE 7 and Opera 9.52 using the
Windows OS. Both screen shots are the same as I see on my browsers.
Thus I am at a loss to know why you do not see the image unless it is
just a temporary network problem.
 
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Athel Cornish-Bowden
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-25-2008
On 2008-08-24 18:26:59 +0200, Adrienne Boswell <(E-Mail Removed)> said:

> [ ... ]


> It would be great if y'all could test
> [http://mywonderyears.org/links.php]. The link after Character and
> Ethics Project should be in Armenian with Armenian characters.


It works fine in MacOS 10.4 with either Safari or iCab. By "works fine"
I mean the Armenian characters are certainly Armenian characters;
whether they are the _right_ Armenian characters is, of course, another
matter.

--
athel

 
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