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No restore points, redux.

 
 
Graham
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      08-15-2008
XS11E wrote:
> "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
> System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
> A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
> delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
> image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.
>
> You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
> to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."
>
> I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?


This sounds similar to (but different from) the reason that Raxco
Perfect disk can't properly defrag an NTFS disk under Vista unless
cluster sizes of at least 16K are used for the volume. It has a "VSS
compatible" defrag mode, which basically tells it to limit
defragmentation in order to avoid creating excessive file "changes"
which fill up the VSS area and wipe out system restore points.

I'd say this is a design problem with Vista for two reasons. First, the
file changes which are stored regardless of the Vista version are only
accessible and restorable if you have Vista Business or Ultimate and
otherwise just waste disk space. Second, if it works with cluster sizes
greater than 16K, it should have been possible to make it work with
smaller, and more common, cluster sizes too (but I don't know the
technical details of why that was not done).

I think Microsoft need to do some re-thinking of VSS. Sounds like a
potentially good idea poorly implemented. (It does have a potential
privacy issue too, in that deleted files are even less physically
deleted than they were with earlier versions of Windows.)
 
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Bobby Johnson
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      08-15-2008
Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
"I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."

And a reply from Acronis Support:
"Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software

Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
details to them."

So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.

When I have time I will do a restore from the backup I did
yesterday and see what the status of the Restore Points is.
They're still working in the system I did the image of.


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
>> x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
>> went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
>> set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
>> are still listed.
>>
>> I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
>> x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.
>>
>> Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
>> it delete my previous restore points.

>
> FYI: It's normal, I finally dug the info out, applies to Version 10 and
> 11 of Acronis:
>
> "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
> System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
> A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
> delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
> image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.
>
> You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
> to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."
>
> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=199565
>
> It's a long thread, it applies to Acronis 10 and 11, different people
> have different results.
>
> I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?
>
>
>
>
>
>

 
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XS11E
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      08-15-2008
Bobby Johnson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
> "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
> going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
> Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."
>
> And a reply from Acronis Support:
> "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software
>
> Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
> already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
> details to them."
>
> So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.


It appears to be so, see reply from "Graham".


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Bobby Johnson
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      08-17-2008
If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?
As I stated before my restore points are neither deleted nor
turned off when I use Acronis 10 or 11 on Windows XP Pro
(32-bit), Win XP x64, and Vista x64. If this were a Windows
problem, then I would fully expect it to happen on at least
one of my system.


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
>> "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
>> going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
>> Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."
>>
>> And a reply from Acronis Support:
>> "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software
>>
>> Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
>> already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
>> details to them."
>>
>> So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.

>
> It appears to be so, see reply from "Graham".
>
>

 
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XS11E
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      08-18-2008
Bobby Johnson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?


You need to read the entire thread on the Wilder's Security Forum for
Acronis.


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Bobby Johnson
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      08-18-2008
I did and here's one of the best extracts:

"Take it easy chief. Relax. Acronis is one of the best
companies I dealt with and TrueImage the best program I ever
bought. No program is perfect, so chill dude, take it easy
chief."


XS11E wrote:
> Bobby Johnson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?

>
> You need to read the entire thread on the Wilder's Security Forum for
> Acronis.
>
>

 
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XS11E
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      08-18-2008

Bobby Johnson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I did and here's one of the best extracts:
>
> "Take it easy chief. Relax. Acronis is one of the best
> companies I dealt with and TrueImage the best program I ever
> bought. No program is perfect, so chill dude, take it easy
> chief."


Irrelevent, the problem still exists for most and it needs fixing by
MSFT or a work around from Acronis.



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