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Re: reliable power supplies.

 
 
bugalugs
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      07-30-2008
Mark Robinson wrote:
> Freesias wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:30:07 +1200, Mark Robinson wrote:
>>
>>> Freesias wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:11:02 +1200, Richard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The other 3 machines on it are running, and since the mains is present
>>>>> its just passing it straight thru so not relevent.
>>>> Why is a UPS passing the mains electricity straight through?
>>>>
>>>> UPSes are supposed to take mains voltage to charge the battery, and
>>>> then to take the charge on the battery and then invert it back to 240
>>>> volts to power the attached gear.
>>>>
>>>> There should never be a direct path through for mains voltage to get to
>>>> your equipment.
>>> This deserves a Woger award.
>>>
>>> The huge majority of UPSes are offline types and only start the inverter
>>> when the mains fails.

>>
>> And, therefore, they are not proper UPSes - they are cheap ones that
>> only start to function if the power fails.
>>
>> A proper UPS will be power the equipment from the battery and will be
>> recharging the battery, rather than passing mains voltage directly
>> through all the time unless it detects a drop in mains voltage.

>
> Only in your private little world.
>


Out in the real world too.

The ones I've seen had the power 'in' to the batteries and then 'out' to
the equipment. Mind you this was serious UPS. Power was also supplied
to an electric motor which drove a 2 ton flywheel. That in turn was
connected by clutches to a Caterpillar diesel engine. The moment there
was any fluctuation in the voltage the diesel would fire up and be ready
to drive the flywheel and the electric motor became a generator. Each
cell in the battery was about the size of a dozen carton of beer. And
there were racks and racks of them.

Most installations where the supply of power is critical will have an
updated version of that. Don't think they still use a 2 ton flywheel as
they now have batteries that can carry the load until the diesel
generator can come up to speed. One installation I saw had 2 V10 Detroit
diesels.

 
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bugalugs
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      07-30-2008
Jerry wrote:
> bugalugs wrote:
>> Mark Robinson wrote:
>>> Freesias wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:30:07 +1200, Mark Robinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Freesias wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:11:02 +1200, Richard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other 3 machines on it are running, and since the mains is
>>>>>>> present
>>>>>>> its just passing it straight thru so not relevent.
>>>>>> Why is a UPS passing the mains electricity straight through?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UPSes are supposed to take mains voltage to charge the battery, and
>>>>>> then to take the charge on the battery and then invert it back to 240
>>>>>> volts to power the attached gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There should never be a direct path through for mains voltage to
>>>>>> get to
>>>>>> your equipment.
>>>>> This deserves a Woger award.
>>>>>
>>>>> The huge majority of UPSes are offline types and only start the
>>>>> inverter
>>>>> when the mains fails.
>>>>
>>>> And, therefore, they are not proper UPSes - they are cheap ones that
>>>> only start to function if the power fails.
>>>>
>>>> A proper UPS will be power the equipment from the battery and will
>>>> be recharging the battery, rather than passing mains voltage
>>>> directly through all the time unless it detects a drop in mains
>>>> voltage.
>>>
>>> Only in your private little world.
>>>

>>
>> Out in the real world too.
>>
>> The ones I've seen had the power 'in' to the batteries and then 'out'
>> to the equipment. Mind you this was serious UPS. Power was also
>> supplied to an electric motor which drove a 2 ton flywheel. That in
>> turn was connected by clutches to a Caterpillar diesel engine. The
>> moment there was any fluctuation in the voltage the diesel would fire
>> up and be ready to drive the flywheel and the electric motor became a
>> generator. Each cell in the battery was about the size of a dozen
>> carton of beer. And there were racks and racks of them.
>>
>> Most installations where the supply of power is critical will have an
>> updated version of that. Don't think they still use a 2 ton flywheel
>> as they now have batteries that can carry the load until the diesel
>> generator can come up to speed. One installation I saw had 2 V10
>> Detroit diesels.
>>

> That would be an old system indeed. The last flywheel UPS I saw was in
> the 60s and 70s and used for an airline reservation system. They had
> two of these oprocessors, and lots of disk drives and a few samller
> computers.
> http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/ex...423PH2195.html
>


> When power failed the lights in the room went off but the computers kept
> running. There was enough light coming from the indicaters on the
> operator console that you could see, abd thgere were a couple of battery
> powered emergency lights in the corner. The way it actually worked was
> the electric motor rove a flywheel that was connected to a generator,
> all on the same shaft. When power failed the flywheel provided enough
> energy to drive the generator until the diesel started and another
> generator provided power to the motor.


The system with the flywheel was in the old telephone exchange in
Hamilton and the 2 Detroit diesels was being installed in the 2nd
satellite antenna at Warkworth. The submarine cable terminal at Takapuna
had a bank of 6 or 8 smaller diesel generators for the 2 cable systems.
And 'yes' it was a little while ago but it was a UPS or no-break system
before most people had even heard of the term.
 
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EMB
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      07-30-2008
bugalugs wrote:
> The system with the flywheel was in the old telephone exchange in
> Hamilton and the 2 Detroit diesels was being installed in the 2nd
> satellite antenna at Warkworth.


I've test run and load tested those Detroits in the past.
 
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bugalugs
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      07-30-2008
EMB wrote:
> bugalugs wrote:
>> The system with the flywheel was in the old telephone exchange in
>> Hamilton and the 2 Detroit diesels was being installed in the 2nd
>> satellite antenna at Warkworth.

>
> I've test run and load tested those Detroits in the past.


Did they still have the Ozie sheep umbrella there ??
 
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EMB
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      07-31-2008
bugalugs wrote:
> Did they still have the Ozie sheep umbrella there ??


Yep
 
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bugalugs
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      08-01-2008
EMB wrote:
> bugalugs wrote:
>> Did they still have the Ozie sheep umbrella there ??

>
> Yep

And the two Ronnies or had on gone to Ozzie??
 
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