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Distributing Java Source

 
 
Roedy Green
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      07-23-2008
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:01:47 GMT, thufir <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>I like code.google.com, which is free, which uses subversion


isn't that just for google widgets?
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Roedy Green
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      07-23-2008
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:01:47 GMT, thufir <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>How much code do you have that it must be compressed? When you checkout
>code from subversion there's no compression. If you're compressing, that
>sounds like an opportunity for file corruption.


My source code is perfectly ordinary and not that big, under 25 MB, no
compression. Then there are the docs, scripts, class files, jars etc.
Zipped it is about 65 MB.

The website is about 700 MB of HTML, images, zips etc. That is what I
was thinking about gzipping to improve response.

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Roedy Green
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      07-23-2008
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:51:49 +0100, Tom Anderson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>I think the desire to use an archive file is more about having one single
>file to distribute than about reducing size. Even then, reducing size is
>useful - it might not make much difference to the downloader, but a 60%
>reduction in file size also means a 60% reduction in Roedy's bandwidth
>use, which could save him some dollars. And that's Canadian dollars, which
>are really worth something!


The desire to serve via a VCS system is primarily to comply with a
request from JetBrains intellij IDEA, my IDE. They want me to do that
as a condition for getting a free copy of the IDE.

It it also might encourage interest in my code, making it more
"serious" and getting free publicity from the hosting VCS.

Anyone trying to stay on top of my many micro changes could do it more
efficiently than by downloading entire ZIPs each time. It also makes
it clearer to them just what I changed.

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Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
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Roedy Green
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      07-23-2008
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:51:49 +0100, Tom Anderson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>Oh really. And you've had that happen to you, have you?
>
>A compressed file has better protection against external corruption than
>an uncompressed one - there are fewer bits to be hit by cosmic rays or
>other random processes, and all archive formats worth bothering with
>include checksums, which will detect many kinds of corruption. An
>increased chance of corruption could only come from a defective
>implementation of the compressor or decompressor, and the simple fact is
>that there aren't many such implementations in use in the wild.


The other nice feature of compression is it comes with an extra layer
of checksum. If something does go wrong with the transmission
(usually the tail end chopped off) you will soon find out.

The protocols that version control systems use can be quite clever for
syncing two copies of a program to detect deltas, or to update a
version. They don't have to send the entire thing either way. It
would make sense for them to compress that delta protocol as well. I
don't know exactly what they do, however.

That fact that it is not common knowledge how the protocols work is a
good sign. People only tend to know about stuff that DOESN'T work
properly.

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Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
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Jason Cavett
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      07-23-2008
On Jul 23, 8:38*am, Tom Anderson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Roedy Green wrote:
> > 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for distributing
> > Java source?

>
> Not that i'm aware of. I might be tempted to use a JAR, so i could
> indicate version numbers and other things in the manifest, but that's not
> a huge advantage.
>
> > 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> > preferred one for Java multiplatform?

>
> For distribution, it's hard to beat CVS, since there are clients for every
> platform under the sun, including plugins for IDEs, virtual filesystems,
> etc, and it's very well-understood, and a well-established standard.
> Subversion is a 'better CVS', but it doesn't yet have as wide support, i'd
> say. The more radical changeset-oriented systems, like git, are only
> really necessary if you're doing distributed, anarchic development, which
> i think you aren't (since your development isn't distributed - i make no
> comment as to its anarchicity!).
>
> > 3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
> > cheaply? *SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
> > restriction. *My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set up
> > my own server.

>
> I can't think of any off the top of my head that will let you use an
> arbitrary license, as you would need to impose your non-military
> restriction. You could work your way through this list and see if any
> will, though:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...software_hosti...
>
> tom
>
> --
> We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that
> needs to be done. -- Alan Turing


Or Subversion (SVN). CVS-like, but a lot nicer/better features.
 
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Arne Vajhj
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      07-23-2008
Roedy Green wrote:
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for
> distributing Java source?


No.

foobar-n.m-bin.zip for just want to run it people
foobar-n.m-src.zip for build yourself people
source control for contributors

> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> preferred one for Java multiplatform?


CVS or SVN

There is a move from CVS to SVN, but I believe there are still a better
chance than people has CVS support already.

Arne
 
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Hendrik Maryns
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      07-24-2008
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Lew schreef:
| Jason Cavett wrote:
|> Or Subversion (SVN). CVS-like, but a lot nicer/better features.
|
| Not a lot nice, and not all the features are better, and does it really
| do everything that CVS does?

Not being an expert in the matter, I’d have to not agree with you. Svn
is *designed* to be a successor and enhancement to cvs. Atomic commits,
a lot of functions that to not need a server connection which do in cvs
etc. And you can be sure that it does most of what cvs does. Although
it is not a 1-1 replacement, the commands are different, of course.

And then, there is cvs2svn and svnview (makes repository available for
browsing).

H.
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Hendrik Maryns
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      07-24-2008
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Lew schreef:
| Daniel Dyer wrote:
|> That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is
|> now. I'd say that Subversion is at least as widely supported as CVS.
|
| Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've taken
| the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all the
| "improvements" in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not enough
| to justify the learning curve. So far.

Ok, this is getting OT, but could you elaborate on that? I use both,
svn for my own projects and cvs for other projects I contribute to, and
I have to say svn suits me better most of the time. Though I have to
admit that cvs is also still developing and getting better.

H.
- --
Hendrik Maryns
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Roedy Green
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      07-24-2008
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:24:09 +0100, "Daniel Dyer" <"You don't need
it"> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO.


Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but
also directories, copies, and renames. This means you can delete and
restore directories. You dont have to keep dead empty directories
around forever as in CVS. It also means that Subversion keeps track of
the history of the renaming of a file. In CVS renaming looks like the
deletion and creation of a new file with no record of the connection.
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Owen Jacobson
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      07-24-2008
On Jul 24, 6:51*am, Hendrik Maryns <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Lew schreef:
> | Daniel Dyer wrote:
> |
> |> That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is
> |> now. *I'd say that Subversion is at least as widely supported as CVS..
> |
> | Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. *CVS works great, and I've taken
> | the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all the
> | "improvements" in Subversion. *Some, sure, but not all, and not enough
> | to justify the learning curve. *So far.
>
> Ok, this is getting OT, but could you elaborate on that? *I use both,
> svn for my own projects and cvs for other projects I contribute to, and
> I have to say svn suits me better most of the time. *Though I have to
> admit that cvs is also still developing and getting better.


Of the (fairly wide) range of version control tools I've used, svn's
approach to branches and merging is the second most primitive - second
to CVS. That's improving; svn 1.5 adds a much-needed merge-tracking
feature, but ultimately branches need to be a fundamental concept for
a version control system, and for svn they're not; they're a second-
order consequence of another feature entirely, instead.

-o
 
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