Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Firefox > Firefox 3 Slower Than the Pre-Release Versions

Reply
Thread Tools

Firefox 3 Slower Than the Pre-Release Versions

 
 
steve281499
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-30-2008
Hi!

This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.

Any ideas of where to look?

Thanks!

Steve

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
steve281499 wrote:
> Hi!
>
> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>
> Any ideas of where to look?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve
>
> (E-Mail Removed)


nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
using a new profile and see what happens.

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
steve281499
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
On Jun 30, 9:20*pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> steve281499 wrote:
> > Hi!

>
> > This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
> > Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
> > click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
> > have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
> > 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
> > versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.

>
> > Any ideas of where to look?

>
> > Thanks!

>
> > Steve

>
> > (E-Mail Removed)

>
> nope, sorry I can't say that. *FF3 opens pages a lot faster
> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. *Are you using
> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
> using a new profile and see what happens.
>
> --
> *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!
>
> Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public
>
> Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus..htm



Thanks for the reply.

I realize that the consensus is that FF3 is faster than the previous
versions, I did not mean to say or imply that. I just know that
something is wrong with my installation and I can not figure out what
is wrong.

How do I go about creating a new profile?? My first thought was to
delete the current one - which seems to be the one that I had before -
but needed guidance before doing that.

Thanks!

Steve
 
Reply With Quote
 
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
Justin wrote:
> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:20:56 -0700]:
>> steve281499 wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
>>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
>>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
>>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
>>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
>>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>>>
>>> Any ideas of where to look?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> (E-Mail Removed)

>> nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
>> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
>> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
>> using a new profile and see what happens.

>
> I have noticed FF3 be a little slower. My question is this though,
> what's the effing point of having profiles that you spend months
> customising if the default answer to every problem is "sorry, start
> again".


because profiles can become corrupt with a bad extension or
something.

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
steve281499 wrote:
> On Jun 30, 9:20 pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> steve281499 wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
>>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
>>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
>>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
>>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
>>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>>> Any ideas of where to look?
>>> Thanks!
>>> Steve
>>> (E-Mail Removed)

>> nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
>> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
>> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
>> using a new profile and see what happens.
>>
>> --
>> *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!
>>
>> Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public
>>
>> Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> I realize that the consensus is that FF3 is faster than the previous
> versions, I did not mean to say or imply that. I just know that
> something is wrong with my installation and I can not figure out what
> is wrong.
>
> How do I go about creating a new profile?? My first thought was to
> delete the current one - which seems to be the one that I had before -
> but needed guidance before doing that.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve


close FF, then click on the windows start button, then run,
and enter:

firefox.exe -p

this will start the FF profile manager. Create a test
profile there. Does the problem continue in that?

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
Justin wrote:
> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:27:47 -0700]:
>> Justin wrote:
>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:20:56 -0700]:
>>>> steve281499 wrote:
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
>>>>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
>>>>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
>>>>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
>>>>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
>>>>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas of where to look?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>> nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
>>>> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
>>>> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
>>>> using a new profile and see what happens.
>>> I have noticed FF3 be a little slower. My question is this though,
>>> what's the effing point of having profiles that you spend months
>>> customising if the default answer to every problem is "sorry, start
>>> again".

>> because profiles can become corrupt with a bad extension or
>> something.

>
> That's just as ridiculous as Dell or HP or whoever having the only way
> to help you be to reformat your HD and setup windows the way it shipped
> from the factory, completely un-friendly to the people who need the help
> the most.
>


then do you know of a better way to solve various problems?

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
Justin wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote on [Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:26:49 -0400]:
>> Justin wrote:
>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:05:36 -0700]:
>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:27:47 -0700]:
>>>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:20:56 -0700]:
>>>>>>>> steve281499 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
>>>>>>>>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
>>>>>>>>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
>>>>>>>>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
>>>>>>>>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
>>>>>>>>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any ideas of where to look?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>>>>>> nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
>>>>>>>> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
>>>>>>>> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
>>>>>>>> using a new profile and see what happens.
>>>>>>> I have noticed FF3 be a little slower. My question is this though,
>>>>>>> what's the effing point of having profiles that you spend months
>>>>>>> customising if the default answer to every problem is "sorry, start
>>>>>>> again".
>>>>>> because profiles can become corrupt with a bad extension or
>>>>>> something.
>>>>> That's just as ridiculous as Dell or HP or whoever having the only way
>>>>> to help you be to reformat your HD and setup windows the way it shipped
>>>>> from the factory, completely un-friendly to the people who need the help
>>>>> the most.
>>>>>
>>>> then do you know of a better way to solve various problems?
>>> Whether the problems are solved or not it doesn't help to lose all the
>>> settings and whatever else you have in your primary profile.
>>>
>>> I haven't seen a tool to migrate profile data from one to another, does
>>> one exist?

>> I don't know of a tool, however it's really pretty easy:
>>
>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Migrating_..._a_new_profile
>> http://www.holgermetzger.de/pdl.html
>> http://users.adelphia.net/~irwingree...0Profiles.html
>> http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/profilefaq/

>
> So, you'd be copying a corrupt profile into a non-corrupt one, probably
> causing the same issues to resurface?


you still haven't answered my question: since you're an
expert: do you know of a better way?

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
Justin wrote:
> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:06:15 -0700]:
>> Justin wrote:
>>> Ed Mullen wrote on [Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:26:49 -0400]:
>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:05:36 -0700]:
>>>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:27:47 -0700]:
>>>>>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:20:56 -0700]:
>>>>>>>>>> steve281499 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
>>>>>>>>>>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
>>>>>>>>>>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
>>>>>>>>>>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
>>>>>>>>>>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas of where to look?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>>>>>>>> nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
>>>>>>>>>> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
>>>>>>>>>> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
>>>>>>>>>> using a new profile and see what happens.
>>>>>>>>> I have noticed FF3 be a little slower. My question is this though,
>>>>>>>>> what's the effing point of having profiles that you spend months
>>>>>>>>> customising if the default answer to every problem is "sorry, start
>>>>>>>>> again".
>>>>>>>> because profiles can become corrupt with a bad extension or
>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>> That's just as ridiculous as Dell or HP or whoever having the only way
>>>>>>> to help you be to reformat your HD and setup windows the way it shipped
>>>>>>> from the factory, completely un-friendly to the people who need the help
>>>>>>> the most.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> then do you know of a better way to solve various problems?
>>>>> Whether the problems are solved or not it doesn't help to lose all the
>>>>> settings and whatever else you have in your primary profile.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't seen a tool to migrate profile data from one to another, does
>>>>> one exist?
>>>> I don't know of a tool, however it's really pretty easy:
>>>>
>>>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Migrating_..._a_new_profile
>>>> http://www.holgermetzger.de/pdl.html
>>>> http://users.adelphia.net/~irwingree...0Profiles.html
>>>> http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/profilefaq/
>>> So, you'd be copying a corrupt profile into a non-corrupt one, probably
>>> causing the same issues to resurface?

>> you still haven't answered my question: since you're an
>> expert: do you know of a better way?

>
> Did I say I was an expert? No, you assumed I was.
>
> I asked what's the point of having profiles if you lose the
> customisations as the FIRST THING when trying to solve an issue?


again, you fail to answer my question. You keep dancing
around it, but no answer: do you know of a better way?

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
Moz Champion (Dan)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2008
Justin wrote:
> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:16:15 -0700]:
>> Justin wrote:
>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:06:15 -0700]:
>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>> Ed Mullen wrote on [Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:26:49 -0400]:
>>>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:05:36 -0700]:
>>>>>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:27:47 -0700]:
>>>>>>>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote on [Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:20:56 -0700]:
>>>>>>>>>>>> steve281499 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas of where to look?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>>>>>>>>>> nope, sorry I can't say that. FF3 opens pages a lot faster
>>>>>>>>>>>> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. Are you using
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
>>>>>>>>>>>> using a new profile and see what happens.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed FF3 be a little slower. My question is this though,
>>>>>>>>>>> what's the effing point of having profiles that you spend months
>>>>>>>>>>> customising if the default answer to every problem is "sorry, start
>>>>>>>>>>> again".
>>>>>>>>>> because profiles can become corrupt with a bad extension or
>>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>> That's just as ridiculous as Dell or HP or whoever having the only way
>>>>>>>>> to help you be to reformat your HD and setup windows the way it shipped
>>>>>>>>> from the factory, completely un-friendly to the people who need the help
>>>>>>>>> the most.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> then do you know of a better way to solve various problems?
>>>>>>> Whether the problems are solved or not it doesn't help to lose all the
>>>>>>> settings and whatever else you have in your primary profile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't seen a tool to migrate profile data from one to another, does
>>>>>>> one exist?
>>>>>> I don't know of a tool, however it's really pretty easy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Migrating_..._a_new_profile
>>>>>> http://www.holgermetzger.de/pdl.html
>>>>>> http://users.adelphia.net/~irwingree...0Profiles.html
>>>>>> http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/profilefaq/
>>>>> So, you'd be copying a corrupt profile into a non-corrupt one, probably
>>>>> causing the same issues to resurface?
>>>> you still haven't answered my question: since you're an
>>>> expert: do you know of a better way?
>>> Did I say I was an expert? No, you assumed I was.
>>>
>>> I asked what's the point of having profiles if you lose the
>>> customisations as the FIRST THING when trying to solve an issue?

>> again, you fail to answer my question. You keep dancing
>> around it, but no answer: do you know of a better way?

>
> Sure, disable all add-ons and enable one by one, for a start.



Depends on the issue involved.

SOME issues (not all) can be dealt with by using a new profile. Other
issues can be dealt with by other means.

In this specific situation, the problem MAY have been the profile, so it
was SUGGESTED that you try a new profile as a test, to see if that was
the case. If it WAS, then you could be directed to how to transfer data
from one to the other.

A profile becomes corrupt when data is written/added to a file that
shouldn't be there. So, as you transfer data from one profile to the new
one, you simply stop and see if the problem appears in the new after
transfering over, say the bookmarks.

And disabling all the add-ons is usually covered by the use safe mode
test. Safe mode in Firefox disables all the add-ons so you can test
using that, instead of manually disabling each add-on. If it does work
(the problem goes away) in safe mode, that indicates it is an
extension/add-on situation and you would not be told to change to a new
profile.

In any case, the instruction given here was to try a new profile (as a
TEST). I see nothing wrong with that as a means of fault finding. If a
NEW profile did clear up the problem, then yes, it could be assumed it
was a profile situation. If it didn't, well, then it can be assumed it
ISN'T a profile situation.

You were asked to test, but instead you engaged in this diatribe about
it being the first thing, and you were not even asked to change your
current profile, but simply to TEST to see if it was a profile situation
in the first place.
 
Reply With Quote
 
steve281499
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2008
On Jun 30, 11:27*pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> steve281499 wrote:
> > On Jun 30, 9:20 pm, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
> > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> steve281499 wrote:
> >>> Hi!
> >>> This must sound weird, but since I loaded Firefox 3 final release,
> >>> Firefox is slower opening pages. Often to get a link to open I have to
> >>> click on the link again. I am at a loss since Firefox 2.14 did not
> >>> have that problem, nor did the Release Candidate versions of Firefox
> >>> 3. I suspect (based on no evidence!) that something from the prior
> >>> versions is "hanging up" Firefox 3.
> >>> Any ideas of where to look?
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> Steve
> >>> (E-Mail Removed)
> >> nope, sorry I can't say that. *FF3 opens pages a lot faster
> >> than FF2, and others are seeing that, too. *Are you using
> >> the same profile for FF3 as you did for FF2? If so, then try
> >> using a new profile and see what happens.

>
> >> --
> >> *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

>
> >> Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public

>
> >> Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

>
> > Thanks for the reply.

>
> > I realize that the consensus is that FF3 is faster than the previous
> > versions, I did not mean to say or imply that. I just know that
> > something is wrong with my installation and I can not figure out what
> > is wrong.

>
> > How do I go about creating a new profile?? My first thought was to
> > delete the current one - which seems to be the one that I had before -
> > but needed guidance before doing that.

>
> > Thanks!

>
> > Steve

>
> close FF, then click on the windows start button, then run,
> and enter:
>
> firefox.exe -p
>
> this will start the FF profile manager. *Create a test
> profile there. *Does the problem continue in that?
>
> --
> *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!
>
> Warning: Private emails sent to me may become public
>
> Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm


Thanks for the guidance Peter! I admit to not having much knowledge
about the "inner workings" of Firefox.

I created a new profile and the speed was really improved. I then went
back to the "original 3.0 version" and checked the add-ons. Several I
had added when I went from 2.14 to 3.0. I removed all of them and the
speed really improved.

Thanks for your help!

Steve
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re: HELP! Ping getting slower and slower and slower! Paul Computer Information 2 04-03-2012 05:58 PM
Execution of JS in IE6 Much Slower Than FireFox 3 Tom Javascript 2 01-16-2009 01:05 PM
firefox is slower than internet explorer? Lauek Firefox 7 04-05-2005 04:35 AM
XPath queries getting slower and slower... Andre Charbonneau Java 0 02-15-2005 05:04 PM
Dialup modem connects at slower and slower speeds Sharon Sharp Computer Support 7 10-13-2004 02:51 PM



Advertisments