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Frames in ASP.NET

 
 
Juan T. Llibre
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
re:
!>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
!> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
!> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.

Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :

http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx

???

re:
!> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
Look at the source for the default page...

It uses :
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
if you are going to state that something doesn't work.

In this case, it does work.

The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody can verify that :

1. The frameset does work properly
2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset

Thank you.



Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
======================================
"Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary attributes on the various tags to make the frames
> actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.
>
>
> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> ere:
>> !> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
>> !> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.
>>
>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>>
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>
>> ???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>> ======================================
>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
>>>
>>> Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.
>>>
>>> -Scott
>>>
>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:elr$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
>>>>refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages should be
>>>>considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used
>>>>sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull in --all--
>>>>circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a
>>>>no-win compromise for the same reasons.
>>>>
>>>> "Eliyahu Goldin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:OK7$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
>>>>> look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Eliyahu Goldin,
>>>>> Software Developer
>>>>> Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
>>>>> http://usableasp.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development environment(Visual Studio). It says
>>>>>> "element Frameset is not supported".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
>>>>>> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
>>>>>> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page on another frame without reloading
>>>>>> the menu page.
>>>>>> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please help this junior developer.
>>>>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>> Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
>>>>>>> generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine friendly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
>>>>>>> scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I or others may have better suggestions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
>>>>>>>> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and another on the right side.
>>>>>>>> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
>>>>>>>> I am using visual studio 2005.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>






 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Eliyahu Goldin
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets.
Don't know much about framesets, but iframes still have their place. I would
not hesitate using them if they fit into the design.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


"Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:elr$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree
>AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the page
>without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages
>should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly
>as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly. Like iFrames and
>Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull
>in --all-- circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think
>trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a no-win compromise for
>the same reasons.
>
> "Eliyahu Goldin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> message news:OK7$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in
>> a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based solutions,
>> depends on your task.
>>
>> --
>> Eliyahu Goldin,
>> Software Developer
>> Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
>> http://usableasp.net
>>
>>
>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
>>> development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not
>>> supported".
>>>
>>> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
>>> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
>>> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new
>>> page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
>>> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>>>
>>> Please help this junior developer.
>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for
>>>> ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered the
>>>> best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search
>>>> engine friendly.
>>>>
>>>> IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset
>>>> using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar data
>>>> below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca
>>>>
>>>> As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve
>>>> I or others may have better suggestions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
>>>>> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
>>>>> another on the right side.
>>>>> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
>>>>> I am using visual studio 2005.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Mark
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>



 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Scott M.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
You continue to amaze me Jaun. Your sarcastic tone just screams how
ignorant you can be to other points of view.

Didn't I say that you'd run into a quagmire when you attempt to use various
attributes of the frame and frameset tags that you might need in order to
get the frames to work as desired? I'm pretty sure I did. Seeing that you
made an example that does not make use of all the various tag attributes
that relate to frames, I'm not surprised that your example doesn't show what
I was referring to.

Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are
two different things.The W3C has designed the XHTML Frameset spec. such that
you can have one, but in some circumstances, not both. This is what I'm
addressing. Your "example" does not address this at all.

Also, I'm quite sure that you changed the DOCTYPE used in the code, since VS
provides the XHTML 1.0 DOCTYPE by default. So again, you aren't really
addressing anything that I said.

But thanks for your replies, because everytime I rebuild my machine, I
forget to put you back on the <plonk> list. Your messages just reminded me
to do it again.



"Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> re:
> !>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
> !> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
> !> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work
> properly.
>
> Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :
>
> http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx
>
> ???
>
> re:
> !> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.
>
> VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
> Look at the source for the default page...
>
> It uses :
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>
> The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
> if you are going to state that something doesn't work.
>
> In this case, it does work.
>
> The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody
> can verify that :
>
> 1. The frameset does work properly
> 2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
> ======================================
> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
>> attributes on the various tags to make the frames
>> actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0
>> Frameset.
>>
>>
>> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> ere:
>>> !> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
>>> validate against.
>>> !> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
>>> provide.
>>>
>>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>>>
>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
>>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>>> ======================================
>>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
>>>> validate against.
>>>>
>>>> Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames
>>>> used to provide.
>>>>
>>>> -Scott
>>>>
>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:elr$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
>>>>>agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
>>>>>refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I
>>>>>also think looking at MasterPages should be
>>>>>considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as
>>>>>AJAX can drag down performance if not used
>>>>>sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been
>>>>>created has proven to be usefull in --all--
>>>>>circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to
>>>>>beat the stateless model of the web is a
>>>>>no-win compromise for the same reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Eliyahu Goldin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>> news:OK7$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>> You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page
>>>>>> in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
>>>>>> look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Eliyahu Goldin,
>>>>>> Software Developer
>>>>>> Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
>>>>>> http://usableasp.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
>>>>>>> development environment(Visual Studio). It says
>>>>>>> "element Frameset is not supported".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
>>>>>>> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
>>>>>>> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a
>>>>>>> new page on another frame without reloading
>>>>>>> the menu page.
>>>>>>> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please help this junior developer.
>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>> Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
>>>>>>>> for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
>>>>>>>> generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not
>>>>>>>> user friendly nor search engine friendly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a
>>>>>>>> Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
>>>>>>>> scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are
>>>>>>>> ca-ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
>>>>>>>> achieve I or others may have better suggestions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>>> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
>>>>>>>>> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
>>>>>>>>> another on the right side.
>>>>>>>>> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
>>>>>>>>> I am using visual studio 2005.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
>
>



 
Reply With Quote
 
SteveT
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-01-2008
On Jun 30, 11:03*am, "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.
> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development
> environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not supported".
>
> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page
> on another frame without reloading the menu page.
> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>
> Please help this junior developer.
> Thanks, Mark.
>
> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> > Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for
> > ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered the best
> > way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine
> > friendly.

>
> > IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using
> > a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar data below
> > it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

>
> > As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I
> > or others may have better suggestions

>
> > "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> Hi Guys,
> >> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
> >> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
> >> another on the right side.
> >> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

>
> >> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
> >> I am using visual studio 2005.

>
> >> Thanks, Mark


This is a great opportunity for you to use a masterpage with your
menus in it. Then create your web pages using the masterpage.

New to .Net? Here are some great tutorials to get you started:
http://www.asp.net/learn/data-access If you work through the first
20 or so of these tutorials, you'll be answering questions here.


Steve T.


 
Reply With Quote
 
Juan T. Llibre
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2008
re:
!> Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are two different things.

The frames work *and* the code validates.

re:
!> everytime I rebuild my machine, I forget to put you back on the <plonk> list

Just make sure to use the same email address every time you rebuild,
so that my bozo bin catches the same name.

<replonk>




Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
======================================
"Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> You continue to amaze me Jaun. Your sarcastic tone just screams how ignorant you can be to other points of view.


> Didn't I say that you'd run into a quagmire when you attempt to use various attributes of the frame and frameset tags
> that you might need in order to get the frames to work as desired? I'm pretty sure I did. Seeing that you made an
> example that does not make use of all the various tag attributes that relate to frames, I'm not surprised that your
> example doesn't show what I was referring to.
>
> Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are two different things.The W3C has designed
> the XHTML Frameset spec. such that you can have one, but in some circumstances, not both. This is what I'm
> addressing. Your "example" does not address this at all.
>
> Also, I'm quite sure that you changed the DOCTYPE used in the code, since VS provides the XHTML 1.0 DOCTYPE by
> default. So again, you aren't really addressing anything that I said.
>
> But thanks for your replies, because everytime I rebuild my machine, I forget to put you back on the <plonk> list.
> Your messages just reminded me to do it again.
>
>
>
> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> re:
>> !>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>> !> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
>> !> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.
>>
>> Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :
>>
>> http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx
>>
>> ???
>>
>> re:
>> !> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.
>>
>> VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
>> Look at the source for the default page...
>>
>> It uses :
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>
>> The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
>> if you are going to state that something doesn't work.
>>
>> In this case, it does work.
>>
>> The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody can verify that :
>>
>> 1. The frameset does work properly
>> 2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>> ======================================
>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary attributes on the various tags to make the frames
>>> actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> ere:
>>>> !> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
>>>> !> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>>>>
>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
>>>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>>>
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>>>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>>>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>>>> ======================================
>>>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:elr$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
>>>>>>refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages should be
>>>>>>considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used
>>>>>>sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull in --all--
>>>>>>circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a
>>>>>>no-win compromise for the same reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Eliyahu Goldin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:OK7$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>> You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
>>>>>>> look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Eliyahu Goldin,
>>>>>>> Software Developer
>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
>>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
>>>>>>> http://usableasp.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>>> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development environment(Visual Studio). It says
>>>>>>>> "element Frameset is not supported".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
>>>>>>>> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
>>>>>>>> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page on another frame without reloading
>>>>>>>> the menu page.
>>>>>>>> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please help this junior developer.
>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>> Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine friendly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
>>>>>>>>> scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I or others may have better suggestions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>>>> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
>>>>>>>>>> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and another on the right side.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
>>>>>>>>>> I am using visual studio 2005.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>>

>
>



 
Reply With Quote
 
Scott M.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2008
....and of course you didn't read my message beacuse your still talking about
the simple frames you built, which don't reproduce the scenario I was
describing.

If you actually READ my message, you'd sound like you know what you're
talking about, but you didn't so....


"Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> re:
> !> Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate"
> are two different things.
>
> The frames work *and* the code validates.
>
> re:
> !> everytime I rebuild my machine, I forget to put you back on the <plonk>
> list
>
> Just make sure to use the same email address every time you rebuild,
> so that my bozo bin catches the same name.
>
> <replonk>
>
>
>
>
> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
> ======================================
> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> You continue to amaze me Jaun. Your sarcastic tone just screams how
>> ignorant you can be to other points of view.

>
>> Didn't I say that you'd run into a quagmire when you attempt to use
>> various attributes of the frame and frameset tags that you might need in
>> order to get the frames to work as desired? I'm pretty sure I did.
>> Seeing that you made an example that does not make use of all the various
>> tag attributes that relate to frames, I'm not surprised that your example
>> doesn't show what I was referring to.
>>
>> Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are
>> two different things.The W3C has designed the XHTML Frameset spec. such
>> that you can have one, but in some circumstances, not both. This is what
>> I'm addressing. Your "example" does not address this at all.
>>
>> Also, I'm quite sure that you changed the DOCTYPE used in the code, since
>> VS provides the XHTML 1.0 DOCTYPE by default. So again, you aren't
>> really addressing anything that I said.
>>
>> But thanks for your replies, because everytime I rebuild my machine, I
>> forget to put you back on the <plonk> list. Your messages just reminded
>> me to do it again.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> re:
>>> !>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>>> !> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
>>> !> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work
>>> properly.
>>>
>>> Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :
>>>
>>> http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> re:
>>> !> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.
>>>
>>> VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
>>> Look at the source for the default page...
>>>
>>> It uses :
>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
>>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>>
>>> The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
>>> if you are going to state that something doesn't work.
>>>
>>> In this case, it does work.
>>>
>>> The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody
>>> can verify that :
>>>
>>> 1. The frameset does work properly
>>> 2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>>> ======================================
>>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
>>>> attributes on the various tags to make the frames
>>>> actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML
>>>> 1.0 Frameset.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> ere:
>>>>> !> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
>>>>> validate against.
>>>>> !> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
>>>>> provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>>>>>
>>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
>>>>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>>>>
>>>>> ???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>>>>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>>>>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>>>>> ======================================
>>>>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
>>>>>> validate against.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames
>>>>>> used to provide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:elr$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
>>>>>>>agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
>>>>>>>refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I
>>>>>>>also think looking at MasterPages should be
>>>>>>>considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as
>>>>>>>AJAX can drag down performance if not used
>>>>>>>sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been
>>>>>>>created has proven to be usefull in --all--
>>>>>>>circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying
>>>>>>>to beat the stateless model of the web is a
>>>>>>>no-win compromise for the same reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Eliyahu Goldin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>>>>>> in message
>>>>>>> news:OK7$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>> You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new
>>>>>>>> page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
>>>>>>>> look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Eliyahu Goldin,
>>>>>>>> Software Developer
>>>>>>>> Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
>>>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
>>>>>>>> http://usableasp.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>>>> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
>>>>>>>>> development environment(Visual Studio). It says
>>>>>>>>> "element Frameset is not supported".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
>>>>>>>>> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
>>>>>>>>> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show
>>>>>>>>> a new page on another frame without reloading
>>>>>>>>> the menu page.
>>>>>>>>> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please help this junior developer.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>>> Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
>>>>>>>>>> for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
>>>>>>>>>> generally considered the best way to create a web site that is
>>>>>>>>>> not user friendly nor search engine friendly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a
>>>>>>>>>> Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
>>>>>>>>>> scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets
>>>>>>>>>> are ca-ca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
>>>>>>>>>> achieve I or others may have better suggestions
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
>>>>>>>>>>> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left
>>>>>>>>>>> and another on the right side.
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
>>>>>>>>>>> I am using visual studio 2005.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>



 
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Scott M.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2008
"Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Nobody has established why validation even matters when the browsers are
> so loosey goosey anyway.


I'm not sure that this statement is in any way true. While today's browsers
may not perform validation, much of the content that is delivered to them is
dynamically generated and for that to work reliably, you need statndards.

> Same goes for the CSS vs Tables argument. So what?


Because Framesets represent a different situation than tables vs. CSS.
Tables are still fully supported by the W3C, framesets are not.

>
> So many websites are FUBAR and the framework generates tables when using
> the controls that come from Microsoft making --most-- of the concern an
> exercise in futility does it not? Where to draw the line?


I would argue that unless and until we get good standards, those sites will
continue to be FUBAR and standards are the only way to resolve that.

>
>
> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
>> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.
>> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.
>>
>>
>> "Juan T. Llibre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> ere:
>>> !> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
>>> validate against.
>>> !> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
>>> provide.
>>>
>>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
>>>
>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
>>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>>> asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>>> foros de asp.net, en espaņol : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>>> ======================================
>>> "Scott M." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
>>>> validate against.
>>>>
>>>> Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames
>>>> used to provide.
>>>>
>>>> -Scott
>>>>
>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:elr$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
>>>>>agree AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the
>>>>>page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at
>>>>>MasterPages should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very
>>>>>very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly.
>>>>>Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has
>>>>>proven to be usefull in --all-- circumstances and tends to get
>>>>>overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the
>>>>>web is a no-win compromise for the same reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Eliyahu Goldin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>>>> message news:OK7$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>> You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page
>>>>>> in a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based
>>>>>> solutions, depends on your task.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Eliyahu Goldin,
>>>>>> Software Developer
>>>>>> Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
>>>>>> http://usableasp.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>> I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
>>>>>>> development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is
>>>>>>> not supported".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
>>>>>>> As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
>>>>>>> I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a
>>>>>>> new page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
>>>>>>> Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please help this junior developer.
>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:uo5C$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>> Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
>>>>>>>> for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered
>>>>>>>> the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor
>>>>>>>> search engine friendly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a
>>>>>>>> Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of
>>>>>>>> columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
>>>>>>>> achieve I or others may have better suggestions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>>> I am very new to ASP.NET world.
>>>>>>>>> I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
>>>>>>>>> another on the right side.
>>>>>>>>> I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
>>>>>>>>> I am using visual studio 2005.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Mark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>



 
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Marc
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2008

"Junior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Nobody has established why validation even matters when the browsers are
> so loosey goosey anyway.
> Same goes for the CSS vs Tables argument. So what?


Not at all. CSS vs Frames is about laying out text in a symantec way... so
search engines and screen readers can make sense of them.

Marc


 
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