«

windows explorer, or "my computer" does have an issue of shortening
long filenames.. It may be filenames where the path including the
filename, is long. That may have something to do with it.

If you create a file (right click, new file). Or rename a file. Make
the filename(name+ext) as long as you can..
It can behave a bit oddly, losing the icon.. associated with it.
Even when it is a bit shorter than that, so still the icon is there.

If you create for example
c:\aa\ReallyLongFileNameBlahBlahBlah.htm

Make ReallyLongFileNameBlahBlahBlah.htm <-- 253 characters long is
about as long as it will go.

c:\aa\ccc\ReallyLongFileNameBlahBlahBlah.htm <-- 249 characters long
is as long as it can go

Be suspicious of some 256 related limit, like 255 or 256. Indeed, 256
is the limit. It turns out it is 256.

So you can see.. Excluding c:\ there is a max of 256 characters. I
suppose for some reason the number of letters in a filename is related
to 8 bits.

If you highlight the filename, and do COPY-PASTE
You get an error
"
Cannot Copy ReallyLongFileNameBlahBlahBlah.htm : Access is denied.
Make sure the disk is not full or write-protected and that the file is
not currently in use. "

Now..
If you copy the folder containing the long filename,
Then it will copy, but it will shorten
to something like REALLY~1.HTM

funny how windows renames the file the same way DOS does when it can't
handle filenames > 8 FILENAME.EXT is as big as DOS can handle, so that
is where that convention came from (from DOS).

This is very relevant to when copying websites , particularly copying
them into a backup. 'cos
a)Internet Explorer when it saves webpages, then by default, it gives
them VERY LONG names. It doesn't use the filename. it uses something
like the contents of the HTML TITLE tag. Which is often very long.
b)a backup, mine at least, can have alot of nested subdirectories
anyway, so a path can be quite long. And if a backup is on the
desktop, then it is already padded to c:\documents and settings\user
\desktop
So to alleviate the problem slightly, it's better to have a shortcut
on the desktop to c:\backup (like a directory for files you wish to
backup. Like All your data).

It is very problematic if you have saved webpages..

You could make a list of your long ones and go through manually
shortening names of files and directories. And then the find/replace
references in the HTML itself to point to pictures in the new shorter
directory.

in future, don't let IE give it a long name. So type your own name.

Opera gives it a short name (though sometimes I get an error that it
cannot save a page.. so I use IE)

Apparently Total Commander does not have this problem. It preserves
the very long filenames.

So you may have to use Total Commander to copy your backup. Instead of
Windows Explorer.

I noticed the problem when I copied my backup and compared the sizes
before and after I noticed some difference, which I didn't get round
to figuring out.. But I did a check with FSYNC - which does a
directory comparison, and it showed various filenames had been
shortened.

What I think I will do. Is until I have fixed the filenames, I will
use Free Commander - if it works.. Or maybe Total Commander (though
apparently Total Commander is not free).

the point about total commander came off an experts-exchange post!
maybe googling an error message I mentioned above.

Note-
a)To see the length of a filename, e.g. if testing things.. You can
use textpad. Paste it in. It shows the length in the status bar
b)Testing long filenames did on one of my machines, crash windows..
And I would suggest always and especially with laptops.. to have a
crash freeze windows, not restart. So you can see an error. With oen
of my laptops(panasonic toughbook), the error in event viewer--windows-
restart actually shuts it off and it doesn't go on for a while! which
is strange. Only servers - typically they are not laptops - i.e.
computers running servers.. may want the restart option.

On 22 May, 21:21, "jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk"
<jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>

incase anybody doesn't realise.. There is no question here..

but if anybody has any intelligent comments, they are welcome.

<> wrote in message
news:0991405c-cca2-4ca6-8f9d-...
> On 22 May, 21:21, "jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk"
> <jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> incase anybody doesn't realise.. There is no question here..
>
> but if anybody has any intelligent comments, they are welcome.


I've never in my life seen a practical application for a path name of 255
characters.

On 23 May, 00:48, "Jeff Strickland" <cr...@verizon.net> wrote:
> <jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:0991405c-cca2-4ca6-8f9d-...
>
> > On 22 May, 21:21, "jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk"
> > <jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> > incase anybody doesn't realise.. There is no question here..
>
> > but if anybody has any intelligent comments, they are welcome.
>
> I've never in my life seen a practical application for a path name of 255
> characters.

I wouldn't call it a practical application, as if it is suggested.

But I gave the example of unfortunate behaviour of internet explorer.


Well..here is an example..

And this directory may have many more subdirectories, by the way!

Here is a bogyman.. I amended the file/directory names a bit. But the
length is there.

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\thebackups\formozy
\smalltxtdoc\Topics\Bulldozing Articles\Bulldozing books

Now if you get to another 100, you are at 214, so getting closer to
your limit..

Here is the form of the biggest bogyman I found
(I did change the words slightly, but the concept is there)

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\thebackups\formozy
\smalltxtdoc\Topics\Computer Articles\computer bookss\someamazpages
\Amazon_com Books The Great Book The Complete Guide to Great Books And
Nano Technology - read reviews_files\yourstore-off-sliced._ZCYOUR,
0,2,100,100,verdenab,7,90,90,80_.jpg

That was around a 281 character path. (including the c:\)

That was just from saving a webpage with pictures, in internet
explorer, using the default name. Which affects the .html file's name
and the directory's name. And it happened to have a picture with a
huge filename.


Here is a different long one .

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\backups\formozy\medium
\websites\bunch of alright bulldozing websites\Bulldozing_com-
Bulldozer runs over man as he runs away from his fat wife outside the
town court last week.html

That one was around 220.
So close enough, that if a picture was saved there e.g. with a
filename that wasn't short, it would send it up past 256 .

Internet Explorer saves webpages with those long names. It gets them
from the <TITLE> tags.

Look at this site for example
http://www.securiteam.com/windowsntf...X5Q2SAPPK.html
It has a long title tag. So if you do file..SaveAs in IE, the default
fielname is -long-.. If that had pictures, and that was nested in
directories itself, it would be a bogeyman (to windows's built in
copy, at least).

On 22 May, 21:21, "jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk" <snip>
> c:\aa\ccc\ReallyLongFileNameBlahBlahBlah.htm <-- 249 characters long
> is as long as it can go

typo, I meant 259

>
> Be suspicious of some 256 related limit, like 255 or 256. Indeed, 256
> is the limit. It turns out it is 256.
>
> So you can see.. Excluding c:\ *there is a max of 256 characters. * I
> suppose for some reason the number of letters in a filename is related
> to 8 bits.
>

I actually found 2 limits..

One I mentioned.. 256 character path including filename. excluding
the c:\

Another, is a limit to the path excluding filename.
245 character limit. Excluding the c:\, and going up to the ending
\
.That is 11 less than 256, so it allows for filename.ext


Total Commander doesn't actually get around this problem..

It cuts filenames if for example copying them into a path makes the
filename-path too long.

Windows is a bit funny in the way it deals with it..
If you copy a long filename into the directory it is in, then it gives
that error I mentioned only because it is trying to append the words
"Copy Of" to the beginning. The filename may be OK in length.

It is possible to trick windows into copying a filename too big, into
a directory, and then the file doesn't open.. I think putting the
filename in a small directory and copying the directory , can do that.
Though another time I did something similar, it cut it using tilda. So
windows is a bit tricky to predict. And when you do trick it,the
file doesn't open, and cannot be renamed.

So it's good that total commander, it seems, doesn't transgress those
limits since they are windows limits, due to a windows issue.

So I suppose a manual rename is one option..
Or letting "Total Commander" cut them is another option.
Or letting windows deal with it but if it doesn't cut it then maybe
you won't be able to open or rename the file..


<snip>

Jeff Strickland wrote:

> > incase anybody doesn't realise.. There is no question here..

> > but if anybody has any intelligent comments, they are welcome.

> I've never in my life seen a practical application for a path name of 255
> characters.

AMEN, extra long path names just seem plain silly to me,
Why would there ever be a need for sloppy directory structures?
Opps Silly Me, this is windows and its relationship with any
mannor of user.

Nice Tidy File structures makes things so much easier

Now haveing stumbled onto the soapbox, A lot of programs do
allow redefining the locations where they store their working
directories, It Might prove benificial to locate the process
and select a smarter file path structure for the working
directories. This is something I do with any install that
allows it

On 24 May, 05:08, Hp <N...@nana.net> wrote:
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > incase anybody doesn't realise.. There is no question here..
> > > but if anybody has any intelligent comments, they are welcome.
> > I've never in my life seen a practical application for a path name of 255
> > characters.
>
> AMEN, *extra long path names just seem plain silly to me,
> Why would there ever be a need for sloppy directory structures?
> Opps Silly Me, this is windows and its relationship with any
> mannor of user. *
>
> Nice Tidy File structures makes things so much easier
>
> Now haveing stumbled onto the soapbox, *A lot of programs do
> allow redefining the locations where they store their working
> directories, It Might prove benificial to locate the process
> and select a smarter file path structure for the working
> directories. *This is something I do with any install that
> allows it

not applicable here..

for example, a case where somebody is writing many txt files or even
doc files, on a variety of topics , suppose they are a high school
student,
they may have a directory for maths, one for english, one for french,
e.t.c.

You can't just point Ms Word or Notepad to 1 directory that works for
all. It could be subdirectories of that.

But the problem was never about pointing software to these
directories.

It was of extra long paths.. The paths of my design, are very long,
with many subdirectories, but nowhere near -that- long. Not long
enough to cause the problem I described.

The ones that are -that- long, are so, because I was using IE to save
webpages.
And if they were already sitting in c:\docu...\user\desktop\backup
as oppose to \backup