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Re: Power supply version / odd voltage reading / monitor blacking out

 
 
Peter Huebner
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      05-18-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> There is no problem when running at low resolutions. I ran SpeedFan
> and noticed that the -12V was reading -16.97V. How significant is
> that?


Not. I get exactly the same reading off speedfan, with a
Enermax psu and a GB mobo, and previously an Abit mobo.

I seem to recall writing an email to Enermax about it and they
replied that the -12V rail was actually no longer used nor even
connected inside the psu and that the speedfan reading was
erroneous/pure imagination.

h.t.h., -Peter

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=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
 
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Peter Huebner
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      05-19-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> From what I have found about this 430W ThermalTake PSU on various
> websites, this is one PSU to avoid. It tests out as a 350W, well
> below spec and the single 12V rail, rated as 18A actually only
> delivers 16A. It is made by HEC, with ThermalTake's inflated labels
> stuck on. So it seems not all Thermaltake's PSUs are good. One site
> said only the ToughPower series is recommended.
>


I don't think Thermaltake are all that good a brand generally.
Maybe not exactly deserving of Roger's Crap mark, but...

For Psu I'd go enermax or antec any day, possibly Zalman, and
there are one or two other, more obscure brands whose name I've
forgotten.

But when I researched cooling for instance the last time I
upgraded my box, the hardcore tekkie reviews of thermaltake
were always very underwhelmed with their performance.

Basically the brand pitches at teenagers who are likely to
want to turn up at LAN parties with esoteric looking gear with
lots of shining lights, flashing fans and blinking LEDs is my
impression

-Peter

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~misfit~
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      05-20-2008
Somewhere on teh intarweb "Peter Huebner" typed:
> I don't think Thermaltake are all that good a brand generally.
> Maybe not exactly deserving of Roger's Crap mark, but...
>
> For Psu I'd go enermax or antec any day, possibly Zalman, and
> there are one or two other, more obscure brands whose name I've
> forgotten.


I am in full agreement with you over Tt PSUs. For half the price you can get
twice the PSU (AcBel). They do look rather ordinary though, unless you spend
more on their bling range.

> But when I researched cooling for instance the last time I
> upgraded my box, the hardcore tekkie reviews of thermaltake
> were always very underwhelmed with their performance.


I have fitted a few Tt Typoon coolers and I personally have a Tt
Mini-Typhoon cooler. I'm more than satisfied with them, they are two of the
very few top-down high-capacity heatpipe CPU coolers on the market. Having
the fan blowing 'top-down' rather than sideways is important to me since I
learned my lesson long ago about the importance of keeping the VRM
components around the CPU socket cool. You might get away without worrying
about it short-term but for longevity of the mobo it's essential.

Sure, some of the current darlings of the 'hardcore tekkie' crowd may cool
the *CPU* a few degrees more but they do nothing for the VRMs, most of which
are designed to be cooled by air spilling off the (boxed) CPU cooler. No
point having an extra-cool CPU but blown MOSFETs or cooked capacitors in the
VRMs IME/O.

> Basically the brand pitches at teenagers who are likely to
> want to turn up at LAN parties with esoteric looking gear with
> lots of shining lights, flashing fans and blinking LEDs is my
> impression


Yeah. However, Tt were the innovators, blazing the path for other companies.
They were the first successful company to market third-party CPU coolers
successfully (starting with the 'Golden Orb') and were first with
mass-market "custom" cases. (An oxymoron, I know. <g>)

IMO Tt do some things well and other things not-so-well, like most companies
who cover a range of products.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.


 
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Peter Huebner
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      05-20-2008
In article <48322993$(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> > But when I researched cooling for instance the last time I
> > upgraded my box, the hardcore tekkie reviews of thermaltake
> > were always very underwhelmed with their performance.

>
> I have fitted a few Tt Typoon coolers and I personally have a Tt
> Mini-Typhoon cooler. I'm more than satisfied with them, they are two of the
> very few top-down high-capacity heatpipe CPU coolers on the market. Having
> the fan blowing 'top-down' rather than sideways is important to me since I
> learned my lesson long ago about the importance of keeping the VRM
> components around the CPU socket cool. You might get away without worrying
> about it short-term but for longevity of the mobo it's essential.


Oh yes, I hear what you are saying. That's why I didn't get a
scythe ninja for my latest comp but went for watercooling, so I
could have a waterblock on the bridge controller chip as well.
The Tt watercooling got bad reviews, b.t.w., that's where my
statement came from, not so much their forced air heatsinks.

> Sure, some of the current darlings of the 'hardcore tekkie' crowd may cool
> the *CPU* a few degrees more but they do nothing for the VRMs, most of which
> are designed to be cooled by air spilling off the (boxed) CPU cooler. No
> point having an extra-cool CPU but blown MOSFETs or cooked capacitors in the
> VRMs IME/O.


Now, the vrms don't even get significantly warm on my mobo, no
worries there. I tested. The bridge chip, o.t.o.h. .....

>
> Yeah. However, Tt were the innovators, blazing the path for other companies.
> They were the first successful company to market third-party CPU coolers
> successfully (starting with the 'Golden Orb')


Gosh, you got me there. I had a Golden Orb for a while. Somehow
my memory thought that that had been a Zalman product - I was
mistaken.

-P.

--
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firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
 
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~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-20-2008
Somewhere on teh intarweb "Peter Huebner" typed:
> In article <48322993$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>>> But when I researched cooling for instance the last time I
>>> upgraded my box, the hardcore tekkie reviews of thermaltake
>>> were always very underwhelmed with their performance.

>>
>> I have fitted a few Tt Typoon coolers and I personally have a Tt
>> Mini-Typhoon cooler. I'm more than satisfied with them, they are two
>> of the very few top-down high-capacity heatpipe CPU coolers on the
>> market. Having the fan blowing 'top-down' rather than sideways is
>> important to me since I learned my lesson long ago about the
>> importance of keeping the VRM components around the CPU socket cool.
>> You might get away without worrying about it short-term but for
>> longevity of the mobo it's essential.

>
> Oh yes, I hear what you are saying. That's why I didn't get a
> scythe ninja for my latest comp but went for watercooling, so I
> could have a waterblock on the bridge controller chip as well.


Excellent. I would if I could... Probably go with Swiftech.

> The Tt watercooling got bad reviews, b.t.w., that's where my
> statement came from, not so much their forced air heatsinks.


Tt should stick to what they do well, air coolers. Mind you, the
competition's so fierce that I can't blame them for wanting more irons in
the fire.

>> Sure, some of the current darlings of the 'hardcore tekkie' crowd
>> may cool the *CPU* a few degrees more but they do nothing for the
>> VRMs, most of which are designed to be cooled by air spilling off
>> the (boxed) CPU cooler. No point having an extra-cool CPU but blown
>> MOSFETs or cooked capacitors in the VRMs IME/O.

>
> Now, the vrms don't even get significantly warm on my mobo, no
> worries there. I tested. The bridge chip, o.t.o.h. .....


My VRMs have heatsinks on them, I'm not taking any chances. The bridge 'sink
has fins and a heatpipe, which I've supplemented with a 40mm˛ fan. Mind you,
I'm an overclocker. I'm running a C2D E4500 (2.2GHz/800 FSB stock) at 3.2GHz
1600FSB.

>> Yeah. However, Tt were the innovators, blazing the path for other
>> companies. They were the first successful company to market
>> third-party CPU coolers successfully (starting with the 'Golden Orb')

>
> Gosh, you got me there. I had a Golden Orb for a while. Somehow
> my memory thought that that had been a Zalman product - I was
> mistaken.


Give me a minute, I'm a hoarder....

http://test.internet-webmaster.de/upload/1211281666.jpg

(Sorry about the quality of the pic. My camera requires some jiggering
around with white-balance to get good shots under these CFLs, I couldn't be
bothered.)

There ya go! Made for the Celeron 300A but has since done duty on a
Coppermine or two. I used to have a Socket 370 version as well but something
came into contact with a fan blade while it was running and broke it off. I
discarded it thinking I'd never find another fan. Yeah, usual story, I was
given one a few months later. I liked them as they threw air all around the
socket, cooling the VRMs and the bridge. Kinda why I'm using the
Mini-Typhoon now.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.


 
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EMB
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-20-2008
~misfit~ wrote:

> Give me a minute, I'm a hoarder....
>
> http://test.internet-webmaster.de/upload/1211281666.jpg
>
> (Sorry about the quality of the pic. My camera requires some jiggering
> around with white-balance to get good shots under these CFLs, I couldn't be
> bothered.)


Do I recognise that? IIRC it was bought from DSE Onehunga for $2.00 as
a 'Reduced to Clear" item (one of the 20 or so I bought at the time).
 
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~misfit~
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      05-20-2008
Somewhere on teh intarweb "EMB" typed:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Give me a minute, I'm a hoarder....
>>
>> http://test.internet-webmaster.de/upload/1211281666.jpg
>>
>> (Sorry about the quality of the pic. My camera requires some
>> jiggering around with white-balance to get good shots under these
>> CFLs, I couldn't be bothered.)

>
> Do I recognise that? IIRC it was bought from DSE Onehunga for $2.00
> as a 'Reduced to Clear" item (one of the 20 or so I bought at the
> time).


Heh! You gave me two of them. Good memory. I already had one. You giving
those to me is the source of the "spare fan" I mentioned in my reply to
Peter. The fans are the same in the Slot 1 and the Socket 370 versions.
Unfortunately I'd thrown out the Socket 370 'sink not long before,
despairing of ever finding a replacement fan for it. (Without paying through
the nose.)

Cheers,
--
Shaun.


 
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~misfit~
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      05-20-2008
Somewhere on teh intarweb "Nighthawk" typed:

[About Thermaltake]

> Their CPU coolers seem to be good but I wonder if they are a 'me too'
> entrant in PSU's.


Yeah, very much so. Their PSUs are made by a company, Sirtec, who make a lot
of PSUs for others. Badge engineering. That's consistant with your final
statement.

> I have ordered an Enermax Liberty 400W which has dual 12V rails with
> 20A on each, certified for CrossFire or SLI.


It's hard to go wrong with Enermax.

> I did consider AcBel.


However, for those on a tighter budget it's hard to go past AcBel.

My sub-NZ$100 510W (max, 450 nominal) AcBel PSU has two 18A 12V rails.
(<http://www.acbel.com/PDF/P_PC/SingleE2-510.jpg>) I'm very impressed with
the construction values of AcBels. I always open them up (if they're for me)
and have a look at the internals. They're very heavy and just look tidy and
well made. Also I liked that it has two four-wire 12V connectors for the CPU
power. (My motherboard has a socket that takes them both as well...) It's
hard to fault 80% efficiency at this price-point too.

When I bought my first AcBel I was able to overclock my AMD Barton quite a
bit more with the new PSU. There was far less Vcore variance than with the
previous PSU.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

> This is an extract from a review of the 430W Tt:
>
> "This is an old ATX power supply where the manufacturer added a 24-pin
> motherboard connector, SATA power cables and a PCI Express auxiliary
> power cable to make it compatible with computers available today.
> Simply updating the cables doesn't make this power supply an updated
> product. This is so true that this power supply is listed as ATX12V
> 1.3 by Thermaltake, and not as ATX12V 2.x, despite the presence of the
> 24-pin motherboard connector and the 6-pin PCI Express auxiliary power
> cable for video cards.
>
> The main problem with this power supply is that it can't deliver its
> labeled power. It is, in fact, a 350 W power supply. Our conclusion
> is pretty simple: don't buy this power supply."
>
> In otherwords this PSU is a fraud. Apparently, it was said elsewhere,
> that another PSU under a different label that was internally
> identical, was labelled as a 330W.



 
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EMB
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      05-20-2008
~misfit~ wrote:
> Heh! You gave me two of them. Good memory. I already had one. You giving
> those to me is the source of the "spare fan" I mentioned in my reply to
> Peter. The fans are the same in the Slot 1 and the Socket 370 versions.
> Unfortunately I'd thrown out the Socket 370 'sink not long before,
> despairing of ever finding a replacement fan for it. (Without paying through
> the nose.)


Bugger, I binned a new S370 Tt HSF not long before I sent the Slot1
stuff your way.
 
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~misfit~
Guest
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      05-20-2008
Somewhere on teh intarweb "EMB" typed:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Heh! You gave me two of them. Good memory. I already had one. You
>> giving those to me is the source of the "spare fan" I mentioned in
>> my reply to Peter. The fans are the same in the Slot 1 and the
>> Socket 370 versions. Unfortunately I'd thrown out the Socket 370
>> 'sink not long before, despairing of ever finding a replacement fan
>> for it. (Without paying through the nose.)

>
> Bugger, I binned a new S370 Tt HSF not long before I sent the Slot1
> stuff your way.


Bugger indeed. I'm still running a few S370 Tualatins and, while the CPU
runs quite cool, a lot of the mobos run the VRMs hot to supply the low
voltage, high current that Tuis pull compared with Coppermines. (Tui
compatability was a bit of an afterthough with most mobos, they were a
short-lived CPU. At least in that incarnation. Ultimately they were the
forerunners of the 'Core' CPUs that Intel are having so much success with
now.) That's why I like those Tt S370 coolers, lots of air circulation
around the socket/VRM area.

Oh well...
--
Shaun.


 
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