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HC SD card queries

 
 
Terry Pinnell
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      05-17-2008
Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Fred McKenzie wrote:
>
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>> Card Reader

>>
>> The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
>> by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89
>>
>> It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
>> formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.

>
>As an option, albeit not that quite that cheap, I'm using a Sony MRW62E
>reader for SDHC.
>
>> The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
>> with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
>> couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
>> card reader manufacturers to support them.

>
>I read the claims on at least 15 different readers - at up to $50 each -
>that were on the shelf about three weeks ago; I only found one that
>actually specified SDHC compatability. (The one I mention above)


Thanks for all those further replies, very helpful. I reckon I was
making an unjustified assumption about the support for SDHC.

Probably have to buy another reader.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
 
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Terry Pinnell
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      05-18-2008
"iws" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Terry Pinnell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> Jürgen Exner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>>>
>>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
>>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
>>>othner device does not support USB2.

>>
>> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
>> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
>> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
>> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
>>
>>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
>>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
>>>compatibily issue SD.

>>
>> That sounds right.
>>
>>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>>>>GHz)
>>>
>>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
>>>SD card reader.

>>
>> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
>> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
>> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
>> with the current best.
>>

>If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
>be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
>a laptop I bought last year.
>


Thanks, good idea. I've emailed MESH, as I can never reach them by
'phone, but from previous experience I'm not hopeful of a reply.

FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
reader'. Here's a photo:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8...readersjq7.jpg

Anyway, probably looks like I'll have to

a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
to fit alongside another socket in use!)

b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
another faster SDHC card.


--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
 
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Blinky the Shark
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-18-2008
Terry Pinnell wrote:

> "iws" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"Terry Pinnell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> Jürgen Exner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>>>>
>>>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
>>>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
>>>>othner device does not support USB2.
>>>
>>> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
>>> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
>>> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
>>> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
>>>
>>>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
>>>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
>>>>compatibily issue SD.
>>>
>>> That sounds right.
>>>
>>>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>>>>>GHz)
>>>>
>>>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
>>>>SD card reader.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
>>> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
>>> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
>>> with the current best.
>>>

>>If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
>>be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
>>a laptop I bought last year.
>>

>
> Thanks, good idea. I've emailed MESH, as I can never reach them by
> 'phone, but from previous experience I'm not hopeful of a reply.
>
> FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
> reader'. Here's a photo:
> http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8...readersjq7.jpg
>
> Anyway, probably looks like I'll have to
>
> a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
> to fit alongside another socket in use!)
>
> b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
> another faster SDHC card.


What class/speed is the card in question? I've seen you discuss the two
USB flavors and the HC capability of your reader; I don't /remember/ you
mentioning the speed of the card.


--
Blinky
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Terry Pinnell
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      05-18-2008
Blinky the Shark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Terry Pinnell wrote:
>
>> "iws" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>"Terry Pinnell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
>>>> Jürgen Exner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>>>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>>>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>>>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>>>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>>>>>
>>>>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
>>>>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
>>>>>othner device does not support USB2.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
>>>> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
>>>> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
>>>> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
>>>>
>>>>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
>>>>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
>>>>>compatibily issue SD.
>>>>
>>>> That sounds right.
>>>>
>>>>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>>>>>>GHz)
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
>>>>>SD card reader.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
>>>> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
>>>> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
>>>> with the current best.
>>>>
>>>If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
>>>be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
>>>a laptop I bought last year.
>>>

>>
>> Thanks, good idea. I've emailed MESH, as I can never reach them by
>> 'phone, but from previous experience I'm not hopeful of a reply.
>>
>> FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
>> reader'. Here's a photo:
>> http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8...readersjq7.jpg
>>
>> Anyway, probably looks like I'll have to
>>
>> a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
>> to fit alongside another socket in use!)
>>
>> b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
>> another faster SDHC card.

>
>What class/speed is the card in question? I've seen you discuss the two
>USB flavors and the HC capability of your reader; I don't /remember/ you
>mentioning the speed of the card.


Unfortunately no data on the SDHC card. That usually means it's slow.

Anyway, it now looks as if the multi-format reader itself is faulty.
This morning I can't get either the CF reader or SD reader to read
standard cards ;-(

So it seems I'll have the hassle of getting through to MESH Support
tomorrow.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
 
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Matt Ion
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      05-18-2008
Terry Pinnell wrote:

> FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
> reader'. Here's a photo:
> http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8...readersjq7.jpg



It LOOKS really cheap... in fact, looks very similar to the $12 AP one I
linked to earlier. And again, the fact that it doesn't specifically say
SDHC on the SD/MMC slot means it probably doesn't support it, even if it
is working.
 
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Matt Ion
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      05-18-2008
Terry Pinnell wrote:

>> What class/speed is the card in question? I've seen you discuss the two
>> USB flavors and the HC capability of your reader; I don't /remember/ you
>> mentioning the speed of the card.

>
> Unfortunately no data on the SDHC card. That usually means it's slow.



Possible, but as I said before, SDHC itself is new enough that I don't
think any manufacturers using the spec would even bother making a slower
card (at a guess, I'd think the HC spec would include a speed /minimum/
as well; a 4GB card any less than 60X read speed would be ridiculous).

Does the card not have a brand/model on it?
 
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Matt Ion
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      05-18-2008
Alfred Molon wrote:
> SD cards suffer from the same problem that has affected Smartmedia cards
> and Memory Sticks: at one point the specification was changed, so that
> older devices are no longer compatible with the new versions of these
> memory cards.


Yeah, we've already pretty much determined that his card reader doesn't
support SDHC.
 
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Jürgen Exner
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      05-18-2008
Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Jürgen Exner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

>>
>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
>>othner device does not support USB2.

>
>Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
>was capable of USB 2.0


You forgot to mention this little detail. But it doesn't matter. What I
was saying is that you can use USB1 devices on USB2 hubs and vice-versa.
The only difference should be the speed if to both ends are USB2.
Exception: some devices require USB2 speed because of the required data
throughput, e.g. web cams.

>Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
>description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
>this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
>with the current best.


Well, that's something you will have to discuss with whoever assembled
that computer.

>>If your USB adapter or the card reader connected to it supports USB1
>>only, then it doesn't matter how fast or modern your computer is.

>
>The USB adapter is a USB 2.0 type.


Then in all likelyhood the card reader that is connected to it is only
USB1.

>The problem I described! Namely the inability of my modern, high-speed
>PC's SD reader to read an SDHC card. From Matt's reply, looks like it
>is indeed a common problem. Surprises me nevertheless, that a modern
>reader (PC built 2 months ago) should not support this type.


SDHC was standardized not even 2 years ago. First cameras with SDHC
support appeared a bit over 1 year ago. I am not surprised at all that
there are still SD1.x card readers out there and are being sold to
people who have no clue about the mess called SD.

jue
 
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Jürgen Exner
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      05-18-2008
Terry Pinnell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
>to fit alongside another socket in use!)


Sorry, I may be on a totally wrong track here, but what kind of adapter
are you talking about? Adapting from what to what? Somehow your choice
of words makes me think that maybe you are not talking about a USB
controller PCI card but something else.

>b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
>another faster SDHC card.


I _very_ strongly_ doubt that the speed of the flash card is the
limiting factor.

jue
 
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Bob Williams
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      05-19-2008
Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
> Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
> didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
> me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>
> I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
> GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
> built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
> either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
> So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
> excruciatingly slow.
>
> I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
> Is this a common problem please?
>

There are several interrelated problems.
1) The card reader must not only be USB 2 but it must be able to handle
SDHC (High Capacity) cards.
Even if it is USB 2, if it can't handle HC cards.....you get nothing.

2) Even if the card reader is USB 2 and can read HC Cards, your computer
still must have a USB 2 adapter. Otherwise you will get USB 1 performance.

If you are getting SLOW performance, you most likely have a USB 1 device
somewhere in the system.
If you get NO images, your reader cannot handle HC cards.
Bob Williams

 
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