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I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
excruciatingly slow.

I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
Is this a common problem please?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
> Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
> didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
> me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>
> I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
> GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
> built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
> either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
> So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
> excruciatingly slow.
>
> I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
> Is this a common problem please?

Does your new machine's built-in reader specifically state that it
supports SDHC? This is by far the most common problem with SDHC cards,
as not all new readers (or cameras) actually support the HC spec.

As for why the other one is slow, does it specify that it's USB 2.0 or
"HiSpeed"?

Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
othner device does not support USB2.
I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
compatibily issue SD.

>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>GHz)

Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
SD card reader.

> and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
>built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
>either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.

Could be a million of different things.

>So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
>excruciatingly slow.

If your USB adapter or the card reader connected to it supports USB1
only, then it doesn't matter how fast or modern your computer is.

>I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
>Is this a common problem please?

Depends which problem you are talking about:
- backward compatibility issues between SD1.x and SDHC: yes, by poor
design
- slow transfer over USB1: yes, by design
- backward compatibilty issues between USB1 and USB2: no
- card readers in a new computer not compatible with SDHC: no

jue

Jürgen Exner <> wrote:

>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>
>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
>othner device does not support USB2.

Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.

>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
>compatibily issue SD.

That sounds right.

>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>>GHz)
>
>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
>SD card reader.

Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
with the current best.

>> and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
>>built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
>>either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
>
>Could be a million of different things.
>
>>So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
>>excruciatingly slow.
>
>If your USB adapter or the card reader connected to it supports USB1
>only, then it doesn't matter how fast or modern your computer is.

The USB adapter is a USB 2.0 type.

>>I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
>>Is this a common problem please?
>
>Depends which problem you are talking about:
>- backward compatibility issues between SD1.x and SDHC: yes, by poor
>design

The problem I described! Namely the inability of my modern, high-speed
PC's SD reader to read an SDHC card. From Matt's reply, looks like it
is indeed a common problem. Surprises me nevertheless, that a modern
reader (PC built 2 months ago) should not support this type.

>- slow transfer over USB1: yes, by design

See above; not the issue here.

>- backward compatibilty issues between USB1 and USB2: no
>- card readers in a new computer not compatible with SDHC: no

See above; not the issue here.

>jue

Matt Ion <> wrote:

>Terry Pinnell wrote:
>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>> Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>> didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>> me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>>
>> I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>> GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
>> built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
>> either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
>> So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
>> excruciatingly slow.
>>
>> I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
>> Is this a common problem please?
>
>Does your new machine's built-in reader specifically state that it
>supports SDHC? This is by far the most common problem with SDHC cards,
>as not all new readers (or cameras) actually support the HC spec.
>
>As for why the other one is slow, does it specify that it's USB 2.0 or
>"HiSpeed"?

Thanks. See also my reply to Juergen. No details of reader spec ;-( So
I was hoping it might prove to be this particular (cheapish) brand.
But your comments make that unlikely.

The old USB 1.0 PC using the USB 2.0 adapter was obviously slow. But
I'd expect that on the new USB 2.0 PC it would be faster. Unless the
card itself is the determining factor, in which case the two PCs would
give similar (very slow) performance. Which appears the case!

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Matt Ion <> wrote:
>
>> Terry Pinnell wrote:
>>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>> Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>> didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>> me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>>>
>>> I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>>> GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
>>> built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
>>> either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
>>> So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
>>> excruciatingly slow.
>>>
>>> I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
>>> Is this a common problem please?
>> Does your new machine's built-in reader specifically state that it
>> supports SDHC? This is by far the most common problem with SDHC cards,
>> as not all new readers (or cameras) actually support the HC spec.
>>
>> As for why the other one is slow, does it specify that it's USB 2.0 or
>> "HiSpeed"?
>
> Thanks. See also my reply to Juergen. No details of reader spec ;-( So
> I was hoping it might prove to be this particular (cheapish) brand.
> But your comments make that unlikely.

I'd check with the PC manufacturer for the specs on that reader, as I've
seen several very cheap ones used in brand-new systems that DON'T do
SDHC - it's always possible the readers themselves aren't all that new,
if they're some no-name units that the PC builder has had sitting around
for a long time. Aside from the recent advent of SDHC, there really
haven't been that many changes in flash memory formats in the last
half-dozen years (I think Sony's added the Duo version of their
MemoryStick, but base SD, MMC, and CF have remained the same), so there
hasn't been a lot of call for the builders to toss out their existing
stock of readers.

> The old USB 1.0 PC using the USB 2.0 adapter was obviously slow. But
> I'd expect that on the new USB 2.0 PC it would be faster. Unless the
> card itself is the determining factor, in which case the two PCs would
> give similar (very slow) performance. Which appears the case!

I would doubt it. Only older low-capacity SD cards would be likely to
be that slow - anything new enough to be SDHC would also necessarily
have a pretty good transfer rate. I'd say there are two other
probabilities: the reader itself is just slow, despite being USB 2.0
spec; or your computer's USB ports are for some reason set to only do
USB 1.1 speeds, which IS actually an option in most machines' BIOSes.
Have you tried data transfer with anything else (thumb drive, external
HDD) to confirm the ports are performing at their full potential?

In article <>,
Terry Pinnell <> wrote:

> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
> Card Reader

The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89

It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.

The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
card reader manufacturers to support them.

Fred

Fred McKenzie wrote:
> In article <>,
> Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
>
>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>> Card Reader
>
> The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
> by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89
>
> It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
> formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.
>
> The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
> with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
> couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
> card reader manufacturers to support them.

I think the problem there (as I indicated in my last reply to Terry) is
that there are still a lot of non-HC-compliant readers in the retail
channels, and you have to specifically look for that spec when you
purchase one; it's not to the point yet that you can simply assume
anything with an SD slot will support SDHC. This is probably as much
the case with the computer builders as well, who likely have large
stocks of existing non-HC internal readers they still want to use up.

My regular supplier still carries a $12 "all-in-one" internal reader
that DOESN'T do HC, as well as a $20 one that does. In fact, probably
half of their SD-capable readers don't list HC support... but a good
half of them DO. They have a Kingston model
(http://a-power.com/product-4780-370-1), and I know they have some
others in-store that do, although they're not listed on the website.

Fred McKenzie wrote:

> In article <>,
> Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
>
>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>> Card Reader
>
> The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
> by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89
>
> It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
> formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.

As an option, albeit not that quite that cheap, I'm using a Sony MRW62E
reader for SDHC.

> The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
> with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
> couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
> card reader manufacturers to support them.

I read the claims on at least 15 different readers - at up to $50 each -
that were on the shelf about three weeks ago; I only found one that
actually specified SDHC compatability. (The one I mention above)


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
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"Terry Pinnell" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Jürgen Exner <> wrote:
>
>>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
>>
>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
>>othner device does not support USB2.
>
> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
>
>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
>>compatibily issue SD.
>
> That sounds right.
>
>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
>>>GHz)
>>
>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
>>SD card reader.
>
> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
> with the current best.
>
If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
a laptop I bought last year.