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Re: Shootout: the benchmarks game.

 
 
Isaac Gouy
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      04-21-2008
On Apr 20, 1:40 pm, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:57:30 +0200, "Bo Persson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >Must be a bad benchmark, as Java 6 -server is at 16th place!

>
> There is another problem with theshootoutsite. The site forces the
> java version to either use only -server or use only -Xms64m flag.



That's not true! Stop making stuff up!

The JVM flags are clearly shown on the webpages.



> C++ version uses different flags with different benchmarks. There are
> not zillion of c++ benchmarks, one with only -O2 flag and one with O3
> flag for example. However, theshootoutsite does this with java. That
> sounds pretty bogus. Why restrict java to use only -server or only
> -Xms64? Only one java benchmark that uses different flags (depending
> on what flags produce best result with a particular benchmark) should
> be posted (just as C++ benchmark does).
>
> In this benchmark, combining -Xms64m and -server produce best result
>
> when n = 16
>
> 4.478s (when only -server flag is used)
> 1.286s ((when both -server flag and -Xms64 is combined).
>
> Already 4 times faster


 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-21-2008
On Apr 21, 9:07 am, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:25:02 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >That's not true! Stop making stuff up!

>
> >The JVM flags are clearly shown on the webpages.

>
> It's true. The only flag I see are -server -Xbatch -classpath
>
> why not use -server -Xms64m together? Why not use -client if that
> helps in a particular benchmark? why have two and three versions, one
> only for -server and other only for -client and the other only for
> -Xms64m? There are many other flags that can help in cases where a lot
> GC activity is included.



That's not true! Stop making stuff up!

The JVM flags are clearly shown on the webpages.

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...avaxx&id=2#log



 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-22-2008
On Apr 21, 5:24 pm, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:13:28 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >That's not true! Stop making stuff up!

>
> >The JVM flags are clearly shown on the webpages.

>
> >http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...php?test=binar....

>
> The site so confusing.



Why have you not apologized for repeatedly posting false information,
even after you had been told it was false?



> Why is -Xms64m flag not added here?
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...t=binarytrees&...
>
> Why is -Xms64m -server not shown in the ranking on the page?
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all
>
> Why is it not shown on ranking on this page?
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...t=binarytrees&...
>
> In any case, there should be one java result that uses the best JVM
> options/flags depending on the benchmark.
>
> Bo Persson claimed that java version is ranked 16 but with -server and
> Xms64m, it's ranked number 1 in this benchmark. Obviously he too
> missed this link on your site given the confused nature of the website
> with tons of different flag version used for java instead of one
> version with best flags (including -client) depending on the
> situation.



Bo Persson followed the Java URL you posted on Apr 19, 8:24pm & 8:27pm

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....b91dfa158e6ac6

You didn't post the Java -Xms64m URL even though you posted the Intel C
++ URL for the website that shows Java -Xms64m

Why didn't you post the Java -Xms64m URL?


Why are you still not posting URLs that show these Java measurements?

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...t=all&lang=all



 
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Bo Persson
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      04-22-2008
Razii wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:39 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Why have you not apologized for repeatedly posting false
>> information, even after you had been told it was false?

>
> No, it was not false. There is no -Xms64m and -server linked from
> the main page.
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...t=all&lang=all
>
> Anyone can go there and check it. You dug up a link but it's not on
> the main page. Also,-Xms64m "version" always uses -server flag. Why?
> Why it must always use -server flag if the client flag does better
> in some cases?
>
>> Bo Persson followed the Java URL you posted on Apr 19, 8:24pm &
>> 8:27pm

>
> Or perhaps Bo Person went to the main page
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...t=all&lang=all
>
> and found the list doesn't have -Xms64m and -server. Anyone can go
> there and check it.


I actually went to the main page, and chose binary-tree in benchmark
selector at the top of the page. That brought me here:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...trees&lang=all

Found it very "interesting" with a benchmark where ML, Haskell,
Erlang, and Lisp is at the top, shortly followed by Eiffel and Basic.
Must have taken a lot of effort to invent that test!


If you look in the "penalty box" at the bottom of the page, you will
of course find that g++ has the best result, but was disqualified for
chosing a faster memory allocation scheme. ROTFL!


Bo Persson


 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-23-2008
On Apr 22, 11:49 am, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:39 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >Why have you not apologized for repeatedly posting false information,
> >even after you had been told it was false?

>
> No, it was not false. There is no -Xms64m and -server linked from the
> main page.
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all
>
> Anyone can go there and check it. You dug up a link but it's not on
> the main page. Also,-Xms64m "version" always uses -server flag. Why?
> Why it must always use -server flag if the client flag does better in
> some cases?
>
> >Bo Persson followed the Java URL you posted on Apr 19, 8:24pm & 8:27pm

>
> Or perhaps Bo Person went to the main page
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all
>
> and found the list doesn't have -Xms64m and -server. Anyone can go
> there and check it.



Why are you posting false information that a page titled "Create your
own Ranking" is the main page?

The main page is titled "The Computer Language Benchmarks Game".

Why are you posting false information that "There is no -Xms64m and -
server linked from the main page"? "Anyone can go there and check it"
and find the link "Java 6 -Xms64m initial java server heap size 64m"

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-23-2008
On Apr 22, 1:56 pm, "Bo Persson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Razii wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:39 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
> > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >> Why have you not apologized for repeatedly posting false
> >> information, even after you had been told it was false?

>
> > No, it was not false. There is no -Xms64m and -server linked from
> > the main page.

>
> >http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all

>
> > Anyone can go there and check it. You dug up a link but it's not on
> > the main page. Also,-Xms64m "version" always uses -server flag. Why?
> > Why it must always use -server flag if the client flag does better
> > in some cases?

>
> >> Bo Persson followed the Java URL you posted on Apr 19, 8:24pm &
> >> 8:27pm

>
> > Or perhaps Bo Person went to the main page

>
> >http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all

>
> > and found the list doesn't have -Xms64m and -server. Anyone can go
> > there and check it.

>
> I actually went to the main page, and chose binary-tree in benchmark
> selector at the top of the page.



There is no benchmark selector on the main page

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/


> That brought me here:
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...t=binarytrees&...
>
> Found it very "interesting" with a benchmark where ML, Haskell,
> Erlang, and Lisp is at the top, shortly followed by Eiffel and Basic.
> Must have taken a lot of effort to invent that test!
>
> If you look in the "penalty box" at the bottom of the page, you will
> of course find that g++ has the best result, but was disqualified for
> chosing a faster memory allocation scheme. ROTFL!
>
> Bo Persson


It's always faster to run just the lap in the stadium rather than the
whole marathon.
 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-23-2008
On Apr 22, 2:15 pm, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:56:43 +0200, "Bo Persson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >I actually went to the main page, and chose binary-tree in benchmark
> >selector at the top of the page. That brought me here:

>
> Now he should stop blaming me for posting wrong link and apologize.
> The main page doesn't have -Xms64m -server (#1 ranked in this
> benchmark). In fact, the main page ranking only uses -server flag (and
> not whatever flag that would be fastest in a particular benchmark). I
> was correct after all.


The main page is titled "The Computer Language Benchmarks Game".

Why are you posting false information that "There is no -Xms64m and -
server linked from the main page"? "Anyone can go there and check it"
and find the link "Java 6 -Xms64m initial java server heap size 64m"

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/

Stop posting false information!


>
> The guy is weird, by the way. He also has strange excuses for not
> including Jet (even though many other commercial compilers are
> included and links to the their commercial site posted).


Some compilers are included which have freely available non-commercial
licenses (the Jet non-commercial license is not freely available -
it's restricted).
 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-25-2008
On Apr 23, 1:38 pm, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:49:07 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >There is no benchmark selector on the main page

>
> >http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/

>
> There is. If you click on "Show" tab, it takes you to this page.
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all
>
> There is no -server -Xms64m on this ranking. That's how Bo apparently
> found the link. You should apologize by claiming Bo followed my link.
> He didn't. Also, you didn't explain why -Xms64m must always use
> -server? Why not -client sometimes if that helps in some cases? Or
> other flags?


Bo wrote: "I actually went to the main page, and chose binary-tree in
benchmark selector at the top of the page. That brought me here...".

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....2a2ac332ddd04b

As you just discovered - Bo could not have chosen "binary-tree in
benchmark selector at the top of the page".

There is no "binary-tree in benchmark selector at the top of the
page".

There's a button hard-coded to an entirely different webpage!
 
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Isaac Gouy
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      04-25-2008
On Apr 24, 2:28 am, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:41:44 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >Why are you posting false information that a page titled "Create your
> >own Ranking" is the main page?

>
> It's clear by now that you and your site has zero credibility. It's a
> scam. I won't waste any more time on you after this post.
>
> To summarize, anyone can go to the main site
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
>
> where there is no ranking, no numbers, nothing. If you click on "show"
> tab, that takes you to this page
>
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...est=all〈=all
>
> that does have ranking, but there is no -Xms64m. Also, why -Xms64m
> must always use -server flag and vice versa? This guy failed to answer
> that. Even Bo Person told him that this is how he found the 16th place
> ranking, but this idiot, instead of admitting the obvious, keeps
> spining and twisting.
>
> I am done with this fool and will continue posting the rest of the
> results



To summarize, anyone can go to the main site

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/

where there's a "Programming language measurements A to Z" link list
which includes

Java 6 -Xms64m initial java server heap size 64m
 
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Bo Persson
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      04-25-2008
Isaac Gouy wrote:
> On Apr 23, 1:38 pm, Razii <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:49:07 -0700 (PDT), Isaac Gouy
>>
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> There is no benchmark selector on the main page

>>
>>> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/

>>
>> There is. If you click on "Show" tab, it takes you to this page.
>>
>> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp...?test=all?=all
>>
>> There is no -server -Xms64m on this ranking. That's how Bo
>> apparently found the link. You should apologize by claiming Bo
>> followed my link. He didn't. Also, you didn't explain why -Xms64m
>> must always use -server? Why not -client sometimes if that helps
>> in some cases? Or other flags?

>
> Bo wrote: "I actually went to the main page, and chose binary-tree
> in benchmark selector at the top of the page. That brought me
> here...".
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp....2a2ac332ddd04b
>
> As you just discovered - Bo could not have chosen "binary-tree in
> benchmark selector at the top of the page".
>
> There is no "binary-tree in benchmark selector at the top of the
> page".
>
> There's a button hard-coded to an entirely different webpage!


Ok, so I started from there (following Razii's link).

I *could* have gone to the main page, pressed "show", and *then*
selected binary-tree. Big deal!


I now see that Java 6 -server is down to 17th place.


Bo Persson


 
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