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Difficulty with echo and quality on PSTN calls with SPA3000

 
 
David Floyd
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      03-29-2008
For over two years now I've been using an SPA3000 with voip.co.uk with
no problem.

I have not used BT during this time, but now that free calls are
available evening and week-ends with BT, whereas they are still 1ppm
with voip.co.uk I have set up the SPA so that I can make calls via BT
when I need to.

The trouble is I cannot get the quality right.

Apparently the person I call hears me fine and I can hear them OK, but I
get an echo form my own voice and sometimes a bit of breaking up when
both parties cross talk.

I won't list all my settings here at this point (far too many) but if
any-one has any ideas to correct this and wants to know particular
settings that I already have, I'll list whatever you request.

I cannot understand why the quality should be affected when it's not a
voip call

Hope some-one can help.

David
 
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Jono
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2008
David Floyd laid this down on his screen :
> For over two years now I've been using an SPA3000 with voip.co.uk with no
> problem.
>
> I have not used BT during this time, but now that free calls are available
> evening and week-ends with BT, whereas they are still 1ppm with voip.co.uk I
> have set up the SPA so that I can make calls via BT when I need to.
>
> The trouble is I cannot get the quality right.
>
> Apparently the person I call hears me fine and I can hear them OK, but I get
> an echo form my own voice and sometimes a bit of breaking up when both
> parties cross talk.
>
> I won't list all my settings here at this point (far too many) but if any-one
> has any ideas to correct this and wants to know particular settings that I
> already have, I'll list whatever you request.
>
> I cannot understand why the quality should be affected when it's not a voip
> call
>
> Hope some-one can help.
>
> David


I found that, tweaking the gain settings and upgrading the firmware to
the latest Linksys branded version, dramatically reduced PSTN audio
problems.

What firmware are you running? I've just had a quick look on the
Linksys site and they appear to have removed the firmware.....

I have a copy of spa3000-3-1-20GW.bin if you need it.


 
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David Floyd
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2008
In message of Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Jono writes
>David Floyd laid this down on his screen :
>> For over two years now I've been using an SPA3000 with voip.co.uk
>>with no problem.
>>
>> I have not used BT during this time, but now that free calls are
>>available evening and week-ends with BT, whereas they are still 1ppm
>>with voip.co.uk I have set up the SPA so that I can make calls via BT
>>when I need to.
>>
>> The trouble is I cannot get the quality right.
>>
>> Apparently the person I call hears me fine and I can hear them OK,
>>but I get an echo form my own voice and sometimes a bit of breaking
>>up when both parties cross talk.
>>
>> I won't list all my settings here at this point (far too many) but if
>>any-one has any ideas to correct this and wants to know particular
>>settings that I already have, I'll list whatever you request.
>>
>> I cannot understand why the quality should be affected when it's not
>>a voip call
>>
>> Hope some-one can help.
>>
>> David

>
>I found that, tweaking the gain settings


I have SPA to PSTN Gain: 10
and PSTN to SPA Gain: 10

>and upgrading the firmware to the latest Linksys branded version,
>dramatically reduced PSTN audio problems.
>
>What firmware are you running?


What is meant by firmware? The info tab shows Software Version:
3.1.10(GWd) and Hardware Version: 2.0.1(99e2)

>I've just had a quick look on the Linksys site and they appear to have
>removed the firmware.....
>
>I have a copy of spa3000-3-1-20GW.bin if you need it.
>
>


Are there instructions on how to go about installing it?

Thanks for your help
David

It looks as though we are both using email addresses that can't be
communicated with - I'll set up a special one for this and let you know.

David

 
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Jono
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2008
David Floyd formulated on Saturday :
> In message of Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Jono writes
>>David Floyd laid this down on his screen :
>>> For over two years now I've been using an SPA3000 with voip.co.uk with no
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> I have not used BT during this time, but now that free calls are available
>>> evening and week-ends with BT, whereas they are still 1ppm with
>>> voip.co.uk I have set up the SPA so that I can make calls via BT when I
>>> need to.
>>>
>>> The trouble is I cannot get the quality right.
>>>
>>> Apparently the person I call hears me fine and I can hear them OK, but I
>>> get an echo form my own voice and sometimes a bit of breaking up when
>>> both parties cross talk.
>>>
>>> I won't list all my settings here at this point (far too many) but if
>>> any-one has any ideas to correct this and wants to know particular
>>> settings that I already have, I'll list whatever you request.
>>>
>>> I cannot understand why the quality should be affected when it's not a
>>> voip call
>>>
>>> Hope some-one can help.
>>>
>>> David

>>
>>I found that, tweaking the gain settings

>
> I have SPA to PSTN Gain: 10
> and PSTN to SPA Gain: 10


I would drop these bit by bit.


>>and upgrading the firmware to the latest Linksys branded version,
>> dramatically reduced PSTN audio problems.
>>
>>What firmware are you running?

>
> What is meant by firmware? The info tab shows Software Version: 3.1.10(GWd)
> and Hardware Version: 2.0.1(99e2)


Software Version: 3.1.20(GW) Hardware Version: 2.0.1(81e2) on mine -
I'm not saying it's brilliant on PSTN calls but it's always worth a
try.

>
>>I've just had a quick look on the Linksys site and they appear to have
>> removed the firmware.....
>>
>>I have a copy of spa3000-3-1-20GW.bin if you need it.
>>
>>

>
> Are there instructions on how to go about installing it?


There is a tool for performing the upgrade but it usually doesn't work.
the easiest way is to do it via a browser & a website:

You can put the raw firmware image "spa.bin" on a reachable tftp or
webserver server

Goto your web browser, and type in:
http://IPADDYOFSPA/upgrade?http://WE...0-3-1-20GW.bin

With firmware 1.0.30 and above, you can use http in place of tftp
method.

At any time during the 40-seconds upgrade process, please don't unplug
the power.

>
> Thanks for your help
> David
>
> It looks as though we are both using email addresses that can't be
> communicated with - I'll set up a special one for this and let you know.


No probs.


 
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Steve Hayes
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-31-2008
David Floyd wrote:

> For over two years now I've been using an SPA3000 with voip.co.uk with
> no problem.
>
> I have not used BT during this time, but now that free calls are
> available evening and week-ends with BT, whereas they are still 1ppm
> with voip.co.uk I have set up the SPA so that I can make calls via BT
> when I need to.
>
> The trouble is I cannot get the quality right.
>
> Apparently the person I call hears me fine and I can hear them OK, but I
> get an echo form my own voice and sometimes a bit of breaking up when
> both parties cross talk.
>
> I won't list all my settings here at this point (far too many) but if
> any-one has any ideas to correct this and wants to know particular
> settings that I already have, I'll list whatever you request.
>
> I cannot understand why the quality should be affected when it's not a
> voip call
>
> Hope some-one can help.
>
> David


I've been round and round on this one with the SPA3102. The basic problem is
a stupid design. Using VOIP internally between the FXS and FXO ports is
unnecessary and the resulting delay makes echoes a problem.

There is loads of advice on-line about tweaking gains, etc. but I never
found that this helped significantly. In the end, I just tried the three
echo cancellation/suppression settings on the PSTN tab to find the least
objectionable combination:

Echo canc enable needs to be on.

Turning Echo canc adapt enable on works great most of the time but it fails
horribly when both ends speak at once. Then there are really loud and
disconcerting bursts of echo. Keep this one off.

Then there is a tradeoff with Echo supp enable. If it's off, the echo is
annoying. If it's on, you won't hear the other end if you both speak at
once. On balance, I've resorted to having it on and get relatively few
complaints.

The SPA3102 is a great device except for two big flaws: far too many
settings and awful echo problems. They should have consulted someone who
knew something about telephony when they were designing it.

Steve

--
--- remove colours from e-mail address ---

 
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Nick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-31-2008
Steve Hayes wrote:

> I've been round and round on this one with the SPA3102. The basic problem is
> a stupid design. Using VOIP internally between the FXS and FXO ports is
> unnecessary and the resulting delay makes echoes a problem.
>
> There is loads of advice on-line about tweaking gains, etc. but I never
> found that this helped significantly. In the end, I just tried the three
> echo cancellation/suppression settings on the PSTN tab to find the least
> objectionable combination:
>
> Echo canc enable needs to be on.
>
> Turning Echo canc adapt enable on works great most of the time but it fails
> horribly when both ends speak at once. Then there are really loud and
> disconcerting bursts of echo. Keep this one off.
>
> Then there is a tradeoff with Echo supp enable. If it's off, the echo is
> annoying. If it's on, you won't hear the other end if you both speak at
> once. On balance, I've resorted to having it on and get relatively few
> complaints.
>
> The SPA3102 is a great device except for two big flaws: far too many
> settings and awful echo problems. They should have consulted someone who
> knew something about telephony when they were designing it.
>


Thanks this sounds very similar to the problems I've been having. I
haven't been analytic about it but this all sounds very convincing.

I think you are right about the 3102, it is ok as a toy but it isn't
really good enough for normal users.

I was thinking of buying siemans SP450 IP but some people are reporting
problems with them so I thought I'd wait a bit in the hope that the
market matures. I don't want to spend another 100 on a product that
isn't quite there.


> Steve
>

 
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Gordon Henderson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-31-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Nick <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I was thinking of buying siemans SP450 IP but some people are reporting
>problems with them so I thought I'd wait a bit in the hope that the
>market matures. I don't want to spend another 100 on a product that
>isn't quite there.


I seem to have missed the start of this thread, but I'm someone who's
whinging about the Siemens C460IP phone (not the S450's)

And even though I have problems with the C460's I'd suggest that if the
phone is fomr home use, then it works very well - I have to reboot the
one I use at home maybe once a month. It's the ones I have in busy shops
that need rebooting at least once a week, sometimes more.

Gordon
 
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Dave Saville
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-31-2008
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:53:06 UTC, Nick <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I was thinking of buying siemans SP450 IP but some people are reporting
> problems with them so I thought I'd wait a bit in the hope that the
> market matures. I don't want to spend another 100 on a product that
> isn't quite there.


Go for it - Just don't buy from Tesco - locked to their system - and
make sure you upgrade to the latest f/w. Had my three handset system a
couple of months and only minor niggles. Some of which went once I
understood the phones better.

--
Regards
Dave Saville

NB Remove nospam. for good email address
 
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Ian Pawson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-31-2008
Nick wrote:
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> I've been round and round on this one with the SPA3102. The basic
>> problem is
>> a stupid design. Using VOIP internally between the FXS and FXO ports is
>> unnecessary and the resulting delay makes echoes a problem.
>>
>> There is loads of advice on-line about tweaking gains, etc. but I never
>> found that this helped significantly. In the end, I just tried the three
>> echo cancellation/suppression settings on the PSTN tab to find the least
>> objectionable combination:
>>
>> Echo canc enable needs to be on.
>>
>> Turning Echo canc adapt enable on works great most of the time but it
>> fails
>> horribly when both ends speak at once. Then there are really loud and
>> disconcerting bursts of echo. Keep this one off.
>>
>> Then there is a tradeoff with Echo supp enable. If it's off, the echo is
>> annoying. If it's on, you won't hear the other end if you both speak at
>> once. On balance, I've resorted to having it on and get relatively few
>> complaints.
>>
>> The SPA3102 is a great device except for two big flaws: far too many
>> settings and awful echo problems. They should have consulted someone who
>> knew something about telephony when they were designing it.
>>

>
> Thanks this sounds very similar to the problems I've been having. I
> haven't been analytic about it but this all sounds very convincing.
>
> I think you are right about the 3102, it is ok as a toy but it isn't
> really good enough for normal users.
>
> I was thinking of buying siemans SP450 IP but some people are reporting
> problems with them so I thought I'd wait a bit in the hope that the
> market matures. I don't want to spend another 100 on a product that
> isn't quite there.
>
>
>> Steve
>>

Just ordered a C475IP a snip at 80, I am 'upgrading' from a SPA3000
 
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Andrew Gabriel
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-01-2008
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Jono <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> David Floyd laid this down on his screen :
>> For over two years now I've been using an SPA3000 with voip.co.uk with no
>> problem.
>>
>> I have not used BT during this time, but now that free calls are available
>> evening and week-ends with BT, whereas they are still 1ppm with voip.co.uk I
>> have set up the SPA so that I can make calls via BT when I need to.
>>
>> The trouble is I cannot get the quality right.
>>
>> Apparently the person I call hears me fine and I can hear them OK, but I get
>> an echo form my own voice and sometimes a bit of breaking up when both
>> parties cross talk.
>>
>> I won't list all my settings here at this point (far too many) but if any-one
>> has any ideas to correct this and wants to know particular settings that I
>> already have, I'll list whatever you request.
>>
>> I cannot understand why the quality should be affected when it's not a voip
>> call


It is a VoIP call. The SPA3000 has two VoIP units inside, one
on the FXS and one on the FXO. The two ports communicate
internally using VoIP when passing a call through.

Having said that, I've never had this echo problem on any of
the SPA3000's I have in use.

>> Hope some-one can help.
>>
>> David

>
> I found that, tweaking the gain settings and upgrading the firmware to
> the latest Linksys branded version, dramatically reduced PSTN audio
> problems.
>
> What firmware are you running? I've just had a quick look on the
> Linksys site and they appear to have removed the firmware.....
>
> I have a copy of spa3000-3-1-20GW.bin if you need it.


Still on linksys's website. Don't know if this URL will work in
someone else's session -- if not, follow links for support and
select product

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...#versiondetail

I'm running 3.1.10 on all mine (and have had many earlier versions
on them too). Didn't actually know there was anything later until
you mentioned it -- they seem to have stopped updating the old
sipura website.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
 
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