Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Programming > C Programming > Looking for a book about C with special criteria

Reply
Thread Tools

Looking for a book about C with special criteria

 
 
santosh
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-13-2008
user923005 wrote:

<on Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming>

> A beginner who does not have a formalist bent or an eye for detail is
> the exact one who needs the book the most.
> IMO-YMMV
> I am not saying that he will *like* it the most. But (s)he is the one
> that will benefit the most from it.


As long as he has the prerequisites and motivation to stick with it. In
my experience too many people take one look inside and shelve it back
and pick up a "Complete Idiot's guide to ..." sitting next to it.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Richard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-13-2008
user923005 <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> On Mar 12, 8:06¬*pm, Ben Bacarisse <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Richard <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>> > Ben Bacarisse <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

>> <snip>
>> >> One exception is the word "noob". ¬*Because it is slang, I don't know
>> >> exactly what you mean by it, but it does not seem to me to be a

>>
>> > You use usenet and are a programmer and you dont know what noob is? It
>> > is not disrespectful and it is slang. Do you know what a "hacker"
>> > is?

>>
>> Please don't be silly. ¬*I said I don't know *exactly* what you mean by
>> it. ¬*You may not know, but the term is almost exclusively used
>> pejoratively by teenagers (and older) these days. ¬*You might have been
>> intending that. ¬*I am pleased that you were not, but you might note
>> that some people will see only that negative meaning these days.
>>
>> >> respectful term. ¬*It suggests exactly the sort of disregard for
>> >> beginners that caused me jump into this thread.

>>
>> > Disregard for beginners? Are you joking or just the most sensitive man
>> > in the world? Nowhere was any disgard give. Nowhere.

>>
>> Only if you were aware of the pejorative use. ¬*Since you were not,
>> I can see that there was no disregard intended.
>>
>> > I think is it disregard and disrespectful to recommend something Knuth
>> > to someone taking their first steps to be honest. But I think you agree
>> > with that.

>>
>> All was going so well and then this! ¬*It is fine for *some* people --
>> their "beginnerness" is not the point. ¬*If I saw a beginner with a
>> formalist bent and an eye for detail, I'd have no hesitation in
>> suggesting it. ¬*I suspect you also agree with this.


I would. But one would need up close and personal knowledge of that
person.

>>
>> If it assumed a lot of prior knowledge then, yes,it would be
>> unsuitable for all beginners, but I don't think it does. ¬*Note,
>> though, that I have not checked this idea. ¬*It is just a vague memory
>> that it assumes very little prior knowledge.

>
> A beginner who does not have a formalist bent or an eye for detail is
> the exact one who needs the book the most.


Utter rubbish. Some people can program wonderful systems with no
formalist bent. You can not "teach" an eye for detail - you can teach
where best to look and how best to utilise that eye.

Giving a new programmer with no "formalist bent" Knuth to learn is
tantamount to putting him off for life.


> IMO-YMMV
> I am not saying that he will *like* it the most. But (s)he is the one
> that will benefit the most from it.


What world do you inhabit? Seriously. I thought you were a teacher? Not
a member of the inquisition.

I have no doubt that up close and personal you might be a wonderful
teacher but one has to wonder at your thought processes if you believe
Knuth is a "teaching aid" for programmers with no "formal bent".


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Richard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-13-2008
santosh <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> user923005 wrote:
>
> <on Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming>
>
>> A beginner who does not have a formalist bent or an eye for detail is
>> the exact one who needs the book the most.
>> IMO-YMMV
>> I am not saying that he will *like* it the most. But (s)he is the one
>> that will benefit the most from it.

>
> As long as he has the prerequisites and motivation to stick with it. In
> my experience too many people take one look inside and shelve it back
> and pick up a "Complete Idiot's guide to ..." sitting next to it.


And why is that I wonder? Because it's almost impenetrable to any one
but the most formal and mathematical and probably boring of programmers.

It is a reference book for chrissakes.
 
Reply With Quote
 
santosh
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-13-2008
Richard wrote:
> user923005 <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:


<on Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming>

>> A beginner who does not have a formalist bent or an eye for detail is
>> the exact one who needs the book the most.


> Giving a new programmer with no "formalist bent" Knuth to learn is
> tantamount to putting him off for life.
>
>> IMO-YMMV
>> I am not saying that he will *like* it the most. But (s)he is the
>> one that will benefit the most from it.

>
> What world do you inhabit? Seriously. I thought you were a teacher?
> Not a member of the inquisition.
>
> I have no doubt that up close and personal you might be a wonderful
> teacher but one has to wonder at your thought processes if you believe
> Knuth is a "teaching aid" for programmers with no "formal bent".


As you yourself said in another thread about debuggers, what would it
hurt to try? The worst that can happen is that the book is tried and
not found suitable. Do you seriously believe that someone considering a
professional career in programming is going to be permanently put off
because a book they tried doesn't work for them?

 
Reply With Quote
 
santosh
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-13-2008
Richard wrote:

> santosh <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
>> user923005 wrote:
>>
>> <on Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming>
>>
>>> A beginner who does not have a formalist bent or an eye for detail
>>> is the exact one who needs the book the most.
>>> IMO-YMMV
>>> I am not saying that he will *like* it the most. But (s)he is the
>>> one that will benefit the most from it.

>>
>> As long as he has the prerequisites and motivation to stick with it.
>> In my experience too many people take one look inside and shelve it
>> back and pick up a "Complete Idiot's guide to ..." sitting next to
>> it.

>
> And why is that I wonder? Because it's almost impenetrable to any one
> but the most formal and mathematical and probably boring of
> programmers.
>
> It is a reference book for chrissakes.


Quoting Knuth himself:

"I have tried to write this set of books in such a way that it will fill
several needs. In the first place, these books are reference books
which summarise the knowledge which has been acquired in several
important fields. They can also be used as textbooks for self-study or
for college courses in computer and information sciences."

"This set of books is intended for people who will be more than just
casually interested in computers, yet it is by no means only for the
computer specialist. Indeed, one of the main goals has been to make
these programming techniques more accessible to the many people working
in other fields who can make fruitful use of computers, yet who cannot
afford the time to locate all of the necessary information which is
buried in the technical journals."

"A reader who is interested primarily in programming rather than in the
associated mathematics may stop reading each section as soon as the
mathematics becomes recognisably difficult."

 
Reply With Quote
 
Bharat
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2008
May be you can find in "deep C secrets". online version also
available. Try your luck.

Thanks
Bharat


On Mar 8, 11:25*pm, Francois <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> (sorry for my English, I'm French, I'll do my best)
>
> I'm beginning C and personally I'm learning above all with books. I
> started and finished a book for novice (a French book "Livre du C
> premier langage" by Delannoy). I'm reading the K&R book (Kernighan and
> Ritchie second edition) which is far more difficult of course but very
> precise. However, I'm not fully satisfied with some things.
>
> I find that this book has a too far away approach on the computer (or
> achitecture, i don't the right word): how is a data coded in binary, how
> does the problem of "signed" or "unsigned" happen from the point of view
> of the computer...
>
> Obviously, the C language is a "high level" one, which mustn't refer to
> the computer (by principle). So that's logical that a book upon C
> doesn't talk too much of the problems depending on the computer. And
> yet, I'd like to know if such a book does exist. I mean a book which
> exhibits C language and which doesn't hesitate in talking about what
> happens in the computer from time to time: for example the book could
> explain things from the point of view of "a classical" computer. For
> sure, I'd like to avoid electronical considerations. For example, the
> 2's complement will be dealt explaining how things are easier from the
> point of view of the computer, avoiding purely electronical
> considerations if possible.
>
> I hope I've been clear enough about the compromise I'm looking for (but
> does it really exist?). For people who understand French, you can go and
> see this discussion (in which my login is sisco) which gives more
> precisions about my wishes:
>
> http://www.siteduzero.com/forum-83-2...e-codage-binai...
>
> Thanks a lot in advance for helping me.
>
> Sincerely
>
> FranÁois


 
Reply With Quote
 
santosh
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-14-2008
Bharat wrote:

> May be you can find in "deep C secrets". online version also
> available. Try your luck.
>
> Thanks
> Bharat


<snip top post>

Please don't top post. It's better practise to intersperse your reply
with relevant portions of the quoted text.

A link to an online version of Expert C Programming for the benefit of
the OP:

<http://safari.phptr.com/0131774298>

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Special Report: How special are you? Death from Above MCSE 2 03-19-2007 07:22 PM
Recommend an E-book Meeting the Following Criteria (Newbie, Long) Veli-Pekka Tštilš Python 4 12-15-2005 05:01 PM
Special editions and Deluxe special edition dvd question. Rclrk43 DVD Video 8 12-29-2004 07:32 PM
MCSE 2000 Passing criteria Alok MCSE 6 10-12-2003 12:45 AM
Highlight Text based on certain criteria Stephajn Craig ASP .Net 2 07-07-2003 11:07 PM



Advertisments