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Java DB, is it for small databases only?

 
 
Daniel Pitts
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      03-04-2008
Christian wrote:
> Daniel Pitts schrieb:
>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> Even though I have not tested Derby with a 400 MB database, then I
>>>> am sure it can handle it.
>>>
>>> Translation:
>>>
>>> MB = small
>>> GB = medium
>>> TB = large
>>> PB = arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>> You mean: PB = Google
>>

> nope not Really.. I googled a and found some blog entry from 2006
> estimating Googles data in compressed form to 220TB. I doubt it grew to
> a PB since then.
>
> http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/200...gle-store.html
>

Compressed form...

--
Daniel Pitts' Tech Blog: <http://virtualinfinity.net/wordpress/>
 
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Arne Vajhøj
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      03-04-2008
Daniel Pitts wrote:
> Christian wrote:
>> Daniel Pitts schrieb:
>>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> Even though I have not tested Derby with a 400 MB database, then I
>>>>> am sure it can handle it.
>>>>
>>>> Translation:
>>>>
>>>> MB = small
>>>> GB = medium
>>>> TB = large
>>>> PB = arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
>>> You mean: PB = Google
>>>

>> nope not Really.. I googled a and found some blog entry from 2006
>> estimating Googles data in compressed form to 220TB. I doubt it grew
>> to a PB since then.
>>
>> http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/200...gle-store.html
>>

> Compressed form...


I am a bit surprised that it is no more data.

According to:
http://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf

Google has >100000 disks 80-400 GB.

100000*100 GB is 10 PB.

Arne
 
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Arne Vajhj
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      03-04-2008
Roedy Green wrote:
> On 3 Mar 2008 21:19:08 +1100, Lionel van den Berg <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> I'm looking into Java DB, and although Sun claims that it can be a full-
>> scale DBMS I'm wondering what the views on this are? Can Java DB be used
>> for large databases?

>
> Java DB (aka Derby, aka Cloudscape) is for small databases. MySQL
> which Sun now owns is for intermediate sized ones.


Los Alamos apparently runs an intermediate sized database:
http://www.mysql.com/why-mysql/case-...-casestudy.pdf

Arne
 
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Roedy Green
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      03-04-2008
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:33:40 -0500, Arne Vajhj <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Los Alamos apparently runs an intermediate sized database:
> http://www.mysql.com/why-mysql/case-...-casestudy.pdf


Even some Mickey Mouse databases can manage terabyte plus datasets.
The catch is what is your transaction volume, and how much data do you
comb out at a pop.

The good news is RAM is getting cheaper and disks faster. This means
databases get more capable by the day even if the software does not
change.

Exxon sometimes buys enough RAM to float the entire database into
cache to get the performance they want.
--

Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
 
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Lionel van den Berg
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      03-04-2008
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:16:12 +0100, Thomas Kellerer wrote:
> You might want to post that question to the Derby mailing list, support
> over there is quite good.


Thanks. Sort of trying to get the unbiased opinion, but it's still worth
a try .
 
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Lionel van den Berg
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      03-04-2008
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:19:08 +1100, Lionel van den Berg wrote:

> I'm looking into Java DB, and although Sun claims that it can be a full-
> scale DBMS I'm wondering what the views on this are? Can Java DB be used
> for large databases?


It's easier to say in one post, thanks to all the responses, I have
enough food for thought .
 
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francois.orsini@gmail.com
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      03-04-2008
Hi Lionel,

Java DB (Apache Derby) can definitely handle such a dataset size. We
have run some performance tests in multi-user mode with databases >
30+GB.

You can also check about feedback on using large datasets at:
http://www.ohloh.net/projects/3816

Derby is suitable for medium to high-level departmental type of
databases. It was built originally (back at Cloudscape 10+ years ago)
with no particular limitation in mind. The engine has always been
multi-threaded, with a cost-based optimizer and a storage engine that
can handle large datasets. Of course and as some people have pointed
here, large datasets can mean different things to a lot of people.

If you still need to, I would recommend you to post on the derby-user
mailing list, which is very active by the way:
http://db.apache.org/derby/derby_comm.html

You can also browse the list via nabble at
http://www.nabble.com/Derby-f356.html

Regards,

Francois Orsini

On 3 Mar, 03:47, Lionel van den Berg <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:45:37 +0100, Thomas Kellerer wrote:
> > Lionel van den Berg, 03.03.2008 11:19:
> >> I'm looking into Java DB, and although Sun claims that it can be a
> >> full- scale DBMS I'm wondering what the views on this are? Can Java DB
> >> be used for large databases?

>
> > Define "large"

>
> Sigh, I knew that was coming. I'm not sure, I'm not a database person, I
> do enough to get by.
>
> Let's say 10 tables with an average of 4 fields with each table having up
> to 10 million entries.
>
> Not sure if that constitutes large, I'm sure it's not to google.


 
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Arne Vajhøj
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      03-17-2008
Thomas Kellerer wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote on 03.03.2008 22:46:
>> Lionel van den Berg wrote:
>>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:45:37 +0100, Thomas Kellerer wrote:
>>>> Lionel van den Berg, 03.03.2008 11:19:
>>>>> I'm looking into Java DB, and although Sun claims that it can be a
>>>>> full- scale DBMS I'm wondering what the views on this are? Can Java DB
>>>>> be used for large databases?
>>>> Define "large"
>>>
>>> Sigh, I knew that was coming. I'm not sure, I'm not a database
>>> person, I do enough to get by.
>>>
>>> Let's say 10 tables with an average of 4 fields with each table
>>> having up to 10 million entries.

>>
>> If it is integer fields then 10*4*10M = 400 MB which is a small
>> database.
>>

> The actual data size is not necessarily an indicator whether a database
> is "large". 10 Million rows (per table) could be a problem, if e.g. the
> access path to retrieve a subset is not well chosen by the engine and it
> has to scan all rows in order to retrieve e.g. 5 of them.


I would phrase it as: large/small depends on size, but whether
a database is suited for a given problem may depend on many other
factors than the size of the database.

Arne
 
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