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Dimm issue?

 
 
Baron
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      03-08-2008
w_tom wrote:

> On Mar 6, 6:50*am, "Neil Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> A UPS will help with your
>>

problem.http://www.citysoftware.com.au/Brows...c4b4b6d12a1f41...
>> There are plenty on the matket.

>
> A UPS has one function. To protect from data loss due to blackouts
> and extreme brownouts.


Thats two functions in my book. A good read at APC.com would give you
better information.

> Too many computer assemblers have no idea how electricity works.
> Therefore these UPSes get promoted by the naive as solutons for
> everything - except maybe Category 3 hurricanes.


What utter rubbish !

--
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Baron.
 
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Baron
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      03-08-2008
w_tom wrote:

> On Mar 6, 4:07 pm, "Neil Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> A good quality UPS will prevent the PC from resettting
>> under the condition described, and if the dropouts are
>> as frequent as the OP has suggested it will almost
>> certainly pay for itself as she is bound to damage
>> components.


Neil has a better understanding than you do !

> Power off does not harm hard disks, flash memory, and cameras. That
> myth is common where electrical knowledge does not exist.
>
> For example, how does a disk drive power down? Does the computer
> send a message warning a disk drive that power will be removed? No.
> Disk drive learns about the power off only when power is cut off.
> Disk drive powers off same way whether powered down by a 'shutdown' or
> by a blackout. When reading or writing data, the disk drive computer
> sees the power dropping, finishes, and shuts down. Disk drives did
> this even when heads were driven by motor oil (a blunt little hint as
> to how much knowledge and experience is behind this post).


Motor Oil ? Bragging rights. I don't think so.

> A UPS has one function. To protect data loss from blackouts and
> extreme brownouts. If a Windows computer is not using an FAT
> filesystem, then blackouts, et al will not cause data loss on that
> drive. Typical UPS prevents loss of unsaved data.
>
> The OP has defined problems not related to AC power blackouts or
> extreme brownouts. With basic electrical knowledge, that would be
> obvious. A UPS does nothing to solve Diana BB's problems. Sorry Neil,
> I don't mean to sound mean. But too many people with no electrical
> knowledge somehow *know* a UPS will save the world. Even your reasons
> for a UPS - protection of components from damage - is not solved by a
> computer grade UPS. You should have known this before recommending
> any UPS.


--
Best Regards:
Baron.
 
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w_tom
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      03-08-2008
On Mar 8, 8:34 am, Baron <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> A UPS has one function. To protect from data loss due to blackouts
>> and extreme brownouts.

>
> Thats two functions in my book. A good read at APC.com would give
> you better information.



Extremely low voltaget is *one* function. "Blackouts and extreme
brownouts" defines a line voltage well below what also causes lamp
intensity to be less than 40%. Baron would know that with basic
electrical knowledge.

APC color glossies are written for the naive who also don't learn
the numbers. For example, what is the Total Harmonic Distortion of an
APC UPS? Baron would never know and insist he need not know - if he
learned from APC. Numbers for a 120 volt UPS might be two 200 volt
square waves with a 270 spike between those square waves. To those
who learned, this is 'dirty' electricity - excessive harmonic
distortion. To those who learned by reading APC propaganda, this is
called a "modified sine wave" - 'clean' electricity.

Baron is being used to example of why so many recommend solutions
and yet don't even have basic knowledge. Baron has recommended a UPS
to fix Diana BB's memory mismatch problem. Obviously, the UPS does
nothing to solve that problem. But some people are experts by reading
APC propaganda and now consider themselves computer literate. The
informed lurker learns by reading Paul's posts.

That UPS provides one solution: protect unsaved data from blackouts
and extreme browouts. It is only one problem - excessively low
voltage. But that is two functions in Baron's book? Good luck,
Baron, getting it published. It's not even good fiction.
 
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w_tom
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      03-08-2008
On Mar 8, 1:05*am, "Neil Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but I have always been under the
> impression that static can be discharged by touching
> something condictive which is connected to ground.
> Am I wrong?


You are correct. But that subjective conclusion is useful when
numbers are applied.

For example, a static wrist strap is recommended. Why not just
connect the wrist to a wire? Because a wire is conductive - to AC
electricity. Static wrist strap is conductive to static electricity
but not conductive to AC electricity. Again, a subjective
conclusion. Now apply numbers. Static wrist strap includes a 1 Meg
resistor. Yes, one megohm does conduct AC electricity. But so little
AC electric that we say it is not conductive; does not conduct enough
to electrocute a human.

Everything is conductive. But by how much? Many tables may conduct
static electricity to the floor. Therefore a computer sitting on that
table may be electrically connected to charges beneath shoes. Why
does static electricity discharge destructively from hand into
semiconductors? Follow the circuit. Down arm, through
semiconductors, down table to floor and charges beneath feet. A
discharge circuit to the bottom of shoes that passes destructively
through semiconductors.

Some items are less conductive. So we say it does not conduct
static electricity - ie a glass tabletop. But some wall paint,
linoleum tile, and concrete can be excellent conductors to static
electricity. In fact, concrete is so conductive as to be considered
an excellent connection to earth ground - a ground different from the
ground underneath shoes.

This science was referenced in above 3 Mar and 4 Mar posts;
discussed in alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt on 4 Feb 2008 entitled
"Unplug the power supply?" at:
http://tinyurl.com/2565rq

One relevant fact: do not ground for static electric protection
using a wire attached to a wrist. Yes, everything is conductive -
but by how much? No numbers are how junk scientists create junk
science conclusions. Numbers say why that static wrist strap contains
a human safety component - a one megohm resistor - that is so
conductive as to discharge into another conductor - the floor.

Neil, your question is excellent; asks what any computer expert
should understand. What is and is not conductive: a concept to
understand and better apply human safety practices.

Where static electric cannot damage anything, the facilities use
electrically conductive plastics (ie pink plastics) both on a table
and connected (by wire) to more plastic beneath feet. Those plastics
do not conduct computer or AC electricity but are extremely conductive
to static electric currents.
 
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Baron
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2008
w_tom wrote:

> On Mar 8, 8:34 am, Baron <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> A UPS has one function. To protect from data loss due to
>>> blackouts and extreme brownouts.

>>
>> Thats two functions in my book. A good read at APC.com would give
>> you better information.

>
>
> Extremely low voltaget is *one* function. "Blackouts and extreme
> brownouts" defines a line voltage well below what also causes lamp
> intensity to be less than 40%. Baron would know that with basic
> electrical knowledge.


You obviously don't know the difference between a blackout and
brownout !

> APC color glossies are written for the naive who also don't learn
> the numbers. For example, what is the Total Harmonic Distortion of an
> APC UPS?


That would depend upon the UPS wouldn't it !

> Baron would never know and insist he need not know - if he
> learned from APC. Numbers for a 120 volt UPS might be two 200 volt
> square waves with a 270 spike between those square waves. To those
> who learned, this is 'dirty' electricity - excessive harmonic
> distortion.


Have you ever bothered looking at the cleanliness of your local
electricity supply lately ?

> To those who learned by reading APC propaganda, this is
> called a "modified sine wave" - 'clean' electricity.


Only you seem to equate "clean" with "modified sine wave" !

> Baron is being used to example of why so many recommend solutions
> and yet don't even have basic knowledge. Baron has recommended a UPS
> to fix Diana BB's memory mismatch problem.


When did I say it would have anything to do with memory ? You are
putting your words into my mouth. If you were able to read and quote
properly you wouldn't be able to say that!

> Obviously, the UPS does
> nothing to solve that problem. But some people are experts by reading
> APC propaganda and now consider themselves computer literate. The
> informed lurker learns by reading Paul's posts.


Obviously not by yours. Since you insist that you invented electricity
and multimeters are better than sliced bread.

> That UPS provides one solution: protect unsaved data from blackouts
> and extreme browouts. It is only one problem - excessively low
> voltage. But that is two functions in Baron's book? Good luck,
> Baron, getting it published. It's not even good fiction.


Whilst I don't doubt that you have some useful information to impart,
your beliefs are not accurate information. That you seek to mislead
others that your beliefs are fact when they are not is simply
dishonest !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.
 
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Baron
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2008
w_tom wrote:

> On Mar 8, 1:05*am, "Neil Green" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Pardon my ignorance, but I have always been under the
>> impression that static can be discharged by touching
>> something condictive which is connected to ground.
>> Am I wrong?

>
> You are correct. But that subjective conclusion is useful when
> numbers are applied.
>
> For example, a static wrist strap is recommended. Why not just
> connect the wrist to a wire?


See 1/

> Because a wire is conductive - to AC
> electricity. Static wrist strap is conductive to static electricity
> but not conductive to AC electricity.


See 2/

> Again, a subjective
> conclusion. Now apply numbers. Static wrist strap includes a 1 Meg
> resistor. Yes, one megohm does conduct AC electricity. But so little
> AC electric that we say it is not conductive; does not conduct enough
> to electrocute a human.

See 3/

This paragraph is a good example of what I meant earlier.

1/ It is not safe to do so! There is the danger of electrocution.
2/ Electricity is electricity! Anything that conducts electricity
conducts electricity. Ac or DC it does not matter.
3/ This is nearest to being accurate. The resistor is there to prevent
any appreciable electric current flowing. Certainly much less than
would cause death from electrocution.

> Everything is conductive. But by how much? Many tables may conduct
> static electricity to the floor. Therefore a computer sitting on that
> table may be electrically connected to charges beneath shoes. Why
> does static electricity discharge destructively from hand into
> semiconductors? Follow the circuit. Down arm, through
> semiconductors, down table to floor and charges beneath feet. A
> discharge circuit to the bottom of shoes that passes destructively
> through semiconductors.
>
> Some items are less conductive. So we say it does not conduct
> static electricity - ie a glass tabletop. But some wall paint,
> linoleum tile, and concrete can be excellent conductors to static
> electricity. In fact, concrete is so conductive as to be considered
> an excellent connection to earth ground - a ground different from the
> ground underneath shoes.


Again a little knowledge and lots of mis-information.

W_Tom if you really understood you wouldn't need to make such glaring
mis-statements.

> This science was referenced in above 3 Mar and 4 Mar posts;
> discussed in alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt on 4 Feb 2008 entitled
> "Unplug the power supply?" at:
> http://tinyurl.com/2565rq


Did you really read and understand some of the statements made ?

> One relevant fact: do not ground for static electric protection
> using a wire attached to a wrist. Yes, everything is conductive -
> but by how much? No numbers are how junk scientists create junk
> science conclusions. Numbers say why that static wrist strap contains
> a human safety component - a one megohm resistor - that is so
> conductive as to discharge into another conductor - the floor.


Obviously not !

> Neil, your question is excellent; asks what any computer expert
> should understand. What is and is not conductive: a concept to
> understand and better apply human safety practices.
>
> Where static electric cannot damage anything, the facilities use
> electrically conductive plastics (ie pink plastics) both on a table
> and connected (by wire) to more plastic beneath feet. Those plastics
> do not conduct computer or AC electricity but are extremely conductive
> to static electric currents.


Just read that last paragraph again. Ask yourself, does it make sense.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.
 
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