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Dimm issue?

 
 
Diana BB
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-04-2008
Neil Green wrote:
> "Diana BB" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hQPyj.21765$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Neil Green wrote:
>>> "Kevin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:47cb5e40$0$26030$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>>>> "Diana BB" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:5rIyj.21575$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> I am not all that computer savvy when it comes to
>>>>> what under bonnet, if you know what I mean.
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in an area that has many short sharp power
>>>>> outages. I have EVERYTHING I own on power surge
>>>>> boards.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other day after one such power failure, the
>>>>> computer rebooted with the message that goes
>>>>> something like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> BIOS has detected a
>>>>> non-optimal memory configuration Dual Channel
>>>>> operation requires identical
>>>>> paired DIMMS installed in both memory channels.
>>>>> Changing the existing DIMM
>>>>> config. can improve systems memory Bus Bandwith.
>>>>> Channel A DIMM 0 should
>>>>> match Channel B DIMM 0
>>>>> Channel A DIMM 1 should match Channel B DIMM 1.
>>>>> Press<F4> For setup.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I looked at the info on in the setup it
>>>>> tells me that
>>>>> Channel B DIMM 1 is not installed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I do not understand what that means....I did
>>>>> have an SDRAM installed. Is this the one that is
>>>>> having the problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> When it happened the first time I didnt do
>>>>> anything at the setup, just exited. But when
>>>>> Windows(Vista) booted the date and time was set
>>>>> to 1st of Janusary 2002, 12 midnight.
>>>>> It has just happened again this morning....no
>>>>> time when it happens to get over and switch the
>>>>> power off at the wall.....this time I had a look
>>>>> and saw the above Channel B info.......
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I do n ot get this message if I shut down and
>>>>> restart the computer...it is only after a power
>>>>> failure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone help me with info or a website that
>>>>> may be able to tell me exactly what has happened
>>>>> and if I can repair it or it will need to go to
>>>>> the computer repairers.
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Diana in Aus
>>>> Does Windows show the correct amount of RAM in
>>>> your system at present? If you have 512 MB of
>>>> RAM, does Windows show this or does it only show
>>>> that you now have 256 MB of RAM? If your system
>>>> reports that it now has half the RAM it should
>>>> have, then that RAM stick is probably damaged.
>>>> You have two channels, A and B. They each have
>>>> two slots for chips, numbered 1 and 2. You need
>>>> matching chips in A1 and B1 and in A2 and B2. You
>>>> seem to have two chips in the A1 and B1 slots, as
>>>> they should be. You might try resetting those
>>>> chips in their slots.
>>>>
>>>> It's not difficult. You can find a diagram of the
>>>> inside of your machine by going to the website of
>>>> the manufacturer, like Dell, HP or whoever, and
>>>> searching for an owners manual. If you have your
>>>> owners manual, all the better. Find the RAM
>>>> slots, you'll see them as soon as you open the
>>>> case, because there are four of them, of equal
>>>> length, about four inches (100 mm) long, and all
>>>> in one place on the motherboard. NOTE: unplug
>>>> everything from the case -- especially the power
>>>> plug before opening the case.
>>> Not a good idea.
>>> Leave the power lead plugged in and switch it off
>>> at the wall, then before you handle any components
>>> touch the power supply with both hands
>>> momentarilly.
>>> This will discharge any static in your fingers to
>>> earth or ground.

>> We usually short ourselves out on the case. Is it
>> better to do it on the power cord?

>
> Not the cord!!!!
> With the power switched off at the wall but the lead
> still connected open the case then touch the power
> supply unit inside, which unlike the case is
> unpainted, before you handle any components.
> Touching the back of the case will give you the same
> result as it's normally bare steel and well earthed.


Durrr well thats what I get for not reading it properly.
Thanks.



>
>>
>>>> The RAM chips are locked in place by two fastening
>>>> levers, on each end of the chips. Push both
>>>> locking levers down at the same time. The RAM
>>>> chip will pop up slightly when you do. Using
>>>> even, steady pressure on the top edge of the chip,
>>>> push it back down into the slot, making sure it is
>>>> lined up. As you do, note that the locking levers
>>>> move with the chip to lock it in place. Make sure
>>>> they engage snugly. They will "click" into place.
>>>> They will fit firmly, so you may need to use some
>>>> pressure. Increase the pressure of your fingertips
>>>> slowly until the chip snaps into place.
>>>>
>>>> Button up the machine and see if that solves your
>>>> problem. Double check those surge suppressors you
>>>> are using. They can be damaged by voltage spikes
>>>> and rendered useless. You can get new ones for a
>>>> few dollars. In fact, this might be a good idea
>>>> anyway if they have taken several of these outages
>>>> you have experienced.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from
>>>> http://www.teranews.com
>>>>

>

 
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Diana BB
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-04-2008
w_tom wrote:
> On Mar 3, 4:49 am, Diana BB <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> We usually short ourselves out on the case. Is it better to do it on the
>> power cord?

>
> Leaving power cord connected to receptacle is bad. But many who
> don't even understand how static electricity damage computers
> recommend leaving the power cord connected. They believe a myth that
> earth ground somehow provided protection. Others who heard this
> 'power cord' myth should learn about static electric protection in a
> previous discussion that details the science in alt.comp.hardware.pc-
> homebuilt on 4 Feb 2008 entitled "Unplug the power supply?" at:
> http://tinyurl.com/2565rq
>
> That discussion provides details. Diana BB is doing what will also
> provide protection if (for example) feet are not moved after touching
> the chassis. But a best solution is using a wrist strap attached to
> the computer's chassis and power cord disconnected.
>
> Returning to the original problem - BIOS boots, first locates then
> tests various hardware, then boots the OS. Diana BB's BIOS test does
> not see correct memory SIMMs. Did it see correct memory before? Was
> anything since changed?. BIOS test functions that only work on power
> up now see failure. What changed since the last time those functions
> operated only during power up?
>
> Assumed: your computer has two memory SIMMs. Memory boards mounted
> in adjacent slots. Both memory should have same part numbers. BIOS
> reads an ID code from each board. If ID codes are not identical or if
> BIOS cannot read one of the memory boards, then that error message may
> result. This ID code is not used during normal operation; only read
> when booting. Why does BIOS this time read a different ID number?
>
> So, is memory not identical, or has hardware that reads memory code
> now failed, or did something change in BIOS power up procedures,
> or ... Well, what has changed or was moved? Was power cord
> attached when anything was changed (that can also create failures)?
>
> Solve this problem by first establishing what is known good and
> what changed between power ups. Do not swap parts until after all
> facts are collected. For example, do both memory boards have same
> part numbers, properly seated, and not touched by static electrically
> charged hand? Just a few obvious questions to first answer - to
> establish what is good.
>
> Do not leave chassis connected to wall receptacle if removing or
> installing any hardware. Using a static wrist strap attached to
> computer chassis is recommended.


w_tom,

You are right I do have two memory SIMMS. The computer was originally
set up for movie editing with two drives, The second was specifically
for the movie editing. Since then I gave added more memory.

I have the program Everest and it tells me that I have the following.....

[ DIMM1: Kingston K ]

Memory Module Properties:
Module Name Kingston K
Serial Number 05153C00h
Manufacture Date Week 29 / 2003
Module Size 256 MB (1 rank,
4 banks)
Module Type Unbuffered
Memory Type DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)


[ DIMM2: 128M64K-40C ]

Memory Module Properties:
Module Name 128M64K-40C
Serial Number 040413C3h
Module Size 1024 MB (2
ranks, 4 banks)
Module Type Unbuffered
Memory Type DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)


[ DIMM3: Kingston K ]

Memory Module Properties:
Module Name Kingston K
Serial Number 07153E00h
Manufacture Date Week 29 / 2003
Module Size 256 MB (1 rank,
4 banks)
Module Type Unbuffered
Memory Type DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings:
@ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
(CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

[ Memory Devices / J5G1 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Type Detail Synchronous
Size 256 MB
Speed 400 MHz
Total Width 64-bit
Data Width 64-bit
Device Locator J5G1
Bank Locator CHANNEL A DIMM0
Manufacturer Manufacturer1
Serial Number SerNum1
Asset Tag AssetTagNum1
Part Number PartNum1

[ Memory Devices / J5G2 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Type Detail Synchronous
Size 1024 MB
Speed 400 MHz
Total Width 64-bit
Data Width 64-bit
Device Locator J5G2
Bank Locator CHANNEL A DIMM1
Manufacturer Manufacturer2
Serial Number SerNum2
Asset Tag AssetTagNum2
Part Number PartNum2

[ Memory Devices / J5H1 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Type Detail Synchronous
Size 256 MB
Speed 400 MHz
Total Width 64-bit
Data Width 64-bit
Device Locator J5H1
Bank Locator CHANNEL B DIMM2
Manufacturer Manufacturer3
Serial Number SerNum3
Asset Tag AssetTagNum3
Part Number PartNum3

[ Memory Devices / J5H2 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Type Detail Synchronous
Speed 400 MHz
Total Width 64-bit
Data Width 64-bit
Device Locator J5H2
Bank Locator CHANNEL B DIMM3
Manufacturer Manufacturer4
Serial Number SerNum4
Asset Tag AssetTagNum4
Part Number PartNum4

I had one of the drives crash about 12 months ago after a root kit
virus. It was the SATA drive. I replaced this with a PATA...I was told
that was okay.
But the only time I get this message is when it reboots itself after the
last two power outages. They are very brief outages and there is no time
to turn the computer off at the wall. When I shut down per Windows
shutdown and restart the computer I do not get this message. Everything
appears to be normal.
As you say we always unplug everything from the computer before opening
the case and stand on tiles and short ourselves out before we touch
anything.
I do have it set for fast boot( I think that is what it is called) in
the BIOS setup. Is that why I do not get the message in a normal start up?

Thanks for your input and advice.

Diana In Aus
 
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Diana BB
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-04-2008
Paul wrote:
> Diana BB wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I am not all that computer savvy when it comes to what under bonnet,
>> if you know what I mean.
>>
>> I live in an area that has many short sharp power outages. I have
>> EVERYTHING I own on power surge boards.
>>
>> The other day after one such power failure, the computer rebooted with
>> the message that goes something like this.
>>
>> BIOS has detected a
>> non-optimal memory configuration Dual Channel operation requires
>> identical
>> paired DIMMS installed in both memory channels. Changing the existing
>> DIMM
>> config. can improve systems memory Bus Bandwith. Channel A DIMM 0 should
>> match Channel B DIMM 0
>> Channel A DIMM 1 should match Channel B DIMM 1. Press<F4> For setup.
>>
>> When I looked at the info on in the setup it tells me that
>> Channel B DIMM 1 is not installed.
>>
>> Now I do not understand what that means....I did have an SDRAM
>> installed. Is this the one that is having the problem?
>>
>> When it happened the first time I didnt do anything at the setup, just
>> exited. But when Windows(Vista) booted the date and time was set to
>> 1st of Janusary 2002, 12 midnight.
>> It has just happened again this morning....no time when it happens to
>> get over and switch the power off at the wall.....this time I had a
>> look and saw the above Channel B info.......
>>
>> Now I do n ot get this message if I shut down and restart the
>> computer...it is only after a power failure.
>>
>> Can anyone help me with info or a website that may be able to tell me
>> exactly what has happened and if I can repair it or it will need to go
>> to the computer repairers.
>> Thanks
>> Diana in Aus
>>

>
> Based on the time changing to 1st January 2002, you need to replace the
> CMOS battery. Look on the motherboard. A typical battery is CR2032,
> available even at Radio Shack.
>
> The CMOS battery is only used by the computer, if you switch off the
> computer at the back, or unplug the computer. The current drain is
> tiny, and in the microamp region. On my computers here, if unplugged,
> they last for three years running the CMOS clock from the CR2032.
> (I've had a couple batteries fail here, on stored computers. I leave
> the battery in them.)
>
> If the computer is left in sleep mode (S3 suspend to RAM), then the
> +5VSB from the power supply, supplies the current for the clock.
> In theory, if alternating between "sleep" and running, without
> switching off the computer at the back, the CMOS battery could
> last for 10 years (or whatever the listed shelf life of the battery is).
>
> What I don't understand about your symptoms, is why the BIOS did
> not enumerate the memory properly during POST. But change the
> battery, and see if the symptoms change for the better or not.
>
> Paul


Thanks Paul,
I will give that a go first.
That is what I couldnt understand about the whole thing. Why was it
reverting back to that date?
And I cannot understand why I am not getting this message during a
normal shutdown/start up. Everything is normal under those conditions.
The time and date dont change.

I do leave my computer going almost all the time and do use sleep mode.
Although that can be a pain as it seems the longer it is in sleep mode
the harder it is to 'wake' it up.....mostly over night. I do believe
that may be a problem with my graphics card though...remember reading it
somewhere sometime.....before it started being a problem for me.
 
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Paul
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-04-2008
Diana BB wrote:

>
> Thanks Paul,
> I will give that a go first.
> That is what I couldnt understand about the whole thing. Why was it
> reverting back to that date?
> And I cannot understand why I am not getting this message during a
> normal shutdown/start up. Everything is normal under those conditions.
> The time and date dont change.
>
> I do leave my computer going almost all the time and do use sleep mode.
> Although that can be a pain as it seems the longer it is in sleep mode
> the harder it is to 'wake' it up.....mostly over night. I do believe
> that may be a problem with my graphics card though...remember reading it
> somewhere sometime.....before it started being a problem for me.


I probably didn't explain it clear enough.

The CMOS clock is a thing like a digital watch, and is located in
the Southbridge. It keeps time for the computer.

Most of the time, the CMOS clock is running from your power supply.
When the power supply is not available, a tiny bit of power is
drawn from the CMOS battery instead. And that is why they put
the battery there.

Now, let's try another scenario.

1) The A.C. power just failed. Now there is no power from the PSU available.
2) The CMOS battery (CR2032 coin cell) is flat, and offering below 2.4V
(Normally it is about 3V or so.)

If all power is gone from the computer, the CMOS clock stops. The
BIOS settings are stored in a tiny RAM located in the CMOS clock.
The RAM loses its contents, because there is no power. The RAM is
volatile, and needs a source of power.

Now, the power comes back on.

The clock resets itself, to a well known, but visually bogus date
and time. Old Macintoshes, for example, reset themselves to a year of
1980. Other more modern computers, seem to be using a more recent, but
still out of date, year at reset. I think the machine I'm typing on,
uses 2002 or so.

After the A.C and battery failure, the CMOS RAM is empty. The BIOS
consults it, and notices the corruption. What the BIOS is supposed to
do, is use all "Auto" settings, re-enumerate the hardware (notice all
your RAM), set everything up, and carry on. Sometimes, the computer
won't boot, because the default boot order is not what the user was
previously using.

If you used any custom settings in the BIOS screens, like boot
order, enabled RAID for drives, that sort of thing, then if
the CMOS loses all power, all the good settings are lost.
You have to put them back. (A real PITA, if you haven't looked
in the BIOS lately.)

If the CMOS battery is flat, then every time the power fails,
you'll be looking at "2002" date again, and your custom settings
will be lost. That is why people replace the battery when it
goes flat. So that, in the event of a power failure, custom
CMOS settings will be maintained.

It still doesn't explain why all RAM would not be found. Even
if the BIOS has no recollection of what happened yesterday, it
should still be able to detect all the hardware present in
the machine. If some hardware was busted, that would be a reason
for not being able to detect it.

HTH,
Paul
 
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Baron
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-04-2008
w_tom wrote:

I would suggest that you go and read exactly what my post said !

I would also read what the posts in your quoted link say !

> Anybody can disagree. But reasons 'why' define which is a
> technically accurate post. Protective earth has no place in the
> static electric discharge circuit as defined in posts in
> http://tinyurl.com/2565rq
> . Baron says otherwise but does not even say why; does not even
> define the circuit. Baron either ignored or did not comprehend a
> static electric circuit explained in http://tinyurl.com/2565rq .
>
> Purpose of a wrist strap is to eliminate a potential difference
> between hand and machine. But not the sole purpose. Various
> functions of a wrist strap were defined in http://tinyurl.com/2565rq
> . The wrist strap may also discharge those static charges. Wrist
> strap also includes an essential safety function to eliminate a
> potential 'electric shock' hazard.
>
> But this remains the number one point. Those who only know from
> popular believe (did not learn the science) assume earth ground is
> somehow involved in static electric discharging. One reason for this
> popular myth are so many computer techs who are A+ Certified without
> learning how electricity works. A serious problem for a nation that
> intends to be a world technical leader. A common misconception among
> computer assemblers is that wire is a perfect conductor. Electricity
> is always different at two ends of a wire. No reason to continue. A
> benchmark defines why so many feel earth ground provides static
> electric protection.
>
> The electrical concepts in http://tinyurl.com/2565rq demonstrate why
> earth ground is not part of a static discharge circuit.
>
> Diana BB equalizes potential between a human arm and a computer by
> touching the chassis before touching anything else. Baron says that
> is not relevant. Baron says "sole purpose of the wrist strap is to
> ensure that there is no voltage differential between the human body
> and the machine". But what Diana BB is doing when touching the
> chassis (assuming feet don't move after touching the chassis) DOES
> ensure no voltage differential exists between human body and machine.
>
> Bad handling can also cause static electric damage. See a reference
> to the "EPROM handshake" in that previous discussion; another example
> of good safety practices. Also see references to room humidifier;
> essential for static discharge protection.
>
> Leaving the power cord connected is a popular myth among computer
> assemblers who believe earth ground is part of a static electric
> discharge circuit. Leaving the power cord connected only creates an
> unnecessary risk to computer hardware. Anyone who works on any
> electronics always disconnects a power cord before touching any
> circuits. A standard practice for both human safety and for
> electronics safety. Reasons 'why' provided in
> http://tinyurl.com/2565rq .
>
> On Mar 3, 3:10 pm, Baron <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> w_tom wrote:
>>> Leaving power cord connected to receptacle is bad.

>>
>> I disagree, particularly if it carries a protective earth. If it is
>> only two wire then an alternative earth connection should be used.
>> ...
>>
>> Ensuring that the machine case remains at ground potential is good
>> practice whether It is done by leaving the power cord connected,
>> assuming that it actually carries an earth connection, or by using an
>> earthing clip.
>> ...
>>
>> Your example is not relevant, however a wrist strap is !
>>
>> The sole purpose of the wrist strap is to ensure that there is no
>> voltage differential between the human body and the machine that
>> could cause any damage to static sensitive components.
>>
>> The purpose of earthing the computer is to ensure that any charges on
>> the machine case are dissipated.
>>
>> But even taking these precautions does not rule out the possibility
>> of damage due to static discharge through bad handling.


--
Best Regards:
Baron.
 
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w_tom
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-05-2008
OK. Now I am confused. Your computer BIOS can read from one pin the
information on each SIMM. But that report says you have 4 memory
SIMMS - not two. For example, Simm 1 and 3 have two different
Kingston serial numbers: 05153C00h and 07153E00h.

One solution is to back the system down to a known good
configuration. For example, only install both Kingston memories.
Test. If it works, then replace those Kingston memories with other
1024 Mb memories and test again.

This to establish integrity of both memory sets. If both memory
pairs check out, then install all to learn if or what the BIOS
complains about. We know this much. BIO clearly reads and identifies
what memories are installed where. So any error message is not
because memories are misidentified or hardware failure has destroyed
that 'ID the part' hardware that operates during power up.

According to memory specs, your motherboard should be PC3200 meaning
that the faster 1024 MB memory is even faster than required - maybe
more stable. Just an observation; probably not a useful conclusion.

Returning to the 'surprise' failures created by static electricity:
we once identified tiles that created static electric charges after a
wax was applied. Never did learn what wax created the problem since
my part was to eliminate a hardware design defect. Static electric
charges are created by numerous materials when room humidity is too
low. Static electric discharges can even create a failure that does
not appear for months. Just another reason why we take precautions
such as static wrist strap or touch the chassis case.

Wish I could provide more information on your (intermittent?)
problem. If it happens again, well, you are better informed to
identify the failure before it again goes away. Of course, there is an
execution difference between a cold boot (no problem seen) and a warm
boot (boot without power cycling). Just another pertinent fact of how
hardware gets reset; information to collect if the problem happens
again.

Hopefully this is useful should future problems occur.

On Mar 4, 9:12 am, Diana BB <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> You are right I do have two memory SIMMS. The computer was originally
> set up for movie editing with two drives, The second was specifically
> for the movie editing. Since then I gave added more memory.
>
> I have the program Everest and it tells me that I have the following.....
>
> [ DIMM1: Kingston K ]
>
> Memory Module Properties:
> Module Name Kingston K
> Serial Number 05153C00h
> Manufacture Date Week 29 / 2003
> Module Size 256 MB (1 rank,
> 4 banks)
> Module Type Unbuffered
> Memory Type DDR SDRAM
> Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
> Module Width 64 bit
> Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
> Error Detection Method None
> Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
> us), Self-Refresh
>
> Memory Timings:
> @ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
> @ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
> @ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>
> [ DIMM2: 128M64K-40C ]
>
> Memory Module Properties:
> Module Name 128M64K-40C
> Serial Number 040413C3h
> Module Size 1024 MB (2
> ranks, 4 banks)
> Module Type Unbuffered
> Memory Type DDR SDRAM
> Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
> Module Width 64 bit
> Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
> Error Detection Method None
> Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
> us), Self-Refresh
>
> Memory Timings:
> @ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
> @ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
> @ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>
> [ DIMM3: Kingston K ]
>
> Memory Module Properties:
> Module Name Kingston K
> Serial Number 07153E00h
> Manufacture Date Week 29 / 2003
> Module Size 256 MB (1 rank,
> 4 banks)
> Module Type Unbuffered
> Memory Type DDR SDRAM
> Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
> Module Width 64 bit
> Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
> Error Detection Method None
> Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
> us), Self-Refresh
>
> Memory Timings:
> @ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
> @ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
> @ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>
> [ Memory Devices / J5G1 ]
>
> Memory Device Properties:
> Form Factor DIMM
> Type Detail Synchronous
> Size 256 MB
> Speed 400 MHz
> Total Width 64-bit
> Data Width 64-bit
> Device Locator J5G1
> Bank Locator CHANNEL A DIMM0
> Manufacturer Manufacturer1
> Serial Number SerNum1
> Asset Tag AssetTagNum1
> Part Number PartNum1
>
> [ Memory Devices / J5G2 ]
>
> Memory Device Properties:
> Form Factor DIMM
> Type Detail Synchronous
> Size 1024 MB
> Speed 400 MHz
> Total Width 64-bit
> Data Width 64-bit
> Device Locator J5G2
> Bank Locator CHANNEL A DIMM1
> Manufacturer Manufacturer2
> Serial Number SerNum2
> Asset Tag AssetTagNum2
> Part Number PartNum2
>
> [ Memory Devices / J5H1 ]
>
> Memory Device Properties:
> Form Factor DIMM
> Type Detail Synchronous
> Size 256 MB
> Speed 400 MHz
> Total Width 64-bit
> Data Width 64-bit
> Device Locator J5H1
> Bank Locator CHANNEL B DIMM2
> Manufacturer Manufacturer3
> Serial Number SerNum3
> Asset Tag AssetTagNum3
> Part Number PartNum3
>
> [ Memory Devices / J5H2 ]
>
> Memory Device Properties:
> Form Factor DIMM
> Type Detail Synchronous
> Speed 400 MHz
> Total Width 64-bit
> Data Width 64-bit
> Device Locator J5H2
> Bank Locator CHANNEL B DIMM3
> Manufacturer Manufacturer4
> Serial Number SerNum4
> Asset Tag AssetTagNum4
> Part Number PartNum4
>
> I had one of the drives crash about 12 months ago after a root kit
> virus. It was the SATA drive. I replaced this with a PATA...I was told
> that was okay.
> But the only time I get this message is when it reboots itself after the
> last two power outages. They are very brief outages and there is no time
> to turn the computer off at the wall. When I shut down per Windows
> shutdown and restart the computer I do not get this message. Everything
> appears to be normal.
> As you say we always unplug everything from the computer before opening
> the case and stand on tiles and short ourselves out before we touch
> anything.
> I do have it set for fast boot( I think that is what it is called) in
> the BIOS setup. Is that why I do not get the message in a normal start up?
>
> Thanks for your input and advice.
>
> Diana In Aus

 
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Diana BB
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      03-05-2008
Paul wrote:
> Diana BB wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Paul,
>> I will give that a go first.
>> That is what I couldnt understand about the whole thing. Why was it
>> reverting back to that date?
>> And I cannot understand why I am not getting this message during a
>> normal shutdown/start up. Everything is normal under those conditions.
>> The time and date dont change.
>>
>> I do leave my computer going almost all the time and do use sleep
>> mode. Although that can be a pain as it seems the longer it is in
>> sleep mode the harder it is to 'wake' it up.....mostly over night. I
>> do believe that may be a problem with my graphics card
>> though...remember reading it somewhere sometime.....before it started
>> being a problem for me.

>
> I probably didn't explain it clear enough.
>
> The CMOS clock is a thing like a digital watch, and is located in
> the Southbridge. It keeps time for the computer.
>
> Most of the time, the CMOS clock is running from your power supply.
> When the power supply is not available, a tiny bit of power is
> drawn from the CMOS battery instead. And that is why they put
> the battery there.
>
> Now, let's try another scenario.
>
> 1) The A.C. power just failed. Now there is no power from the PSU
> available.
> 2) The CMOS battery (CR2032 coin cell) is flat, and offering below 2.4V
> (Normally it is about 3V or so.)
>
> If all power is gone from the computer, the CMOS clock stops. The
> BIOS settings are stored in a tiny RAM located in the CMOS clock.
> The RAM loses its contents, because there is no power. The RAM is
> volatile, and needs a source of power.
>
> Now, the power comes back on.
>
> The clock resets itself, to a well known, but visually bogus date
> and time. Old Macintoshes, for example, reset themselves to a year of
> 1980. Other more modern computers, seem to be using a more recent, but
> still out of date, year at reset. I think the machine I'm typing on,
> uses 2002 or so.
>
> After the A.C and battery failure, the CMOS RAM is empty. The BIOS
> consults it, and notices the corruption. What the BIOS is supposed to
> do, is use all "Auto" settings, re-enumerate the hardware (notice all
> your RAM), set everything up, and carry on. Sometimes, the computer
> won't boot, because the default boot order is not what the user was
> previously using.
>
> If you used any custom settings in the BIOS screens, like boot
> order, enabled RAID for drives, that sort of thing, then if
> the CMOS loses all power, all the good settings are lost.
> You have to put them back. (A real PITA, if you haven't looked
> in the BIOS lately.)
>
> If the CMOS battery is flat, then every time the power fails,
> you'll be looking at "2002" date again, and your custom settings
> will be lost. That is why people replace the battery when it
> goes flat. So that, in the event of a power failure, custom
> CMOS settings will be maintained.
>
> It still doesn't explain why all RAM would not be found. Even
> if the BIOS has no recollection of what happened yesterday, it
> should still be able to detect all the hardware present in
> the machine. If some hardware was busted, that would be a reason
> for not being able to detect it.
>
> HTH,
> Paul


Thanks again Paul,

Wasnt your fault I didnt understand. I dont know a lot about the
internal workings of my computer. Usually learn when something goes wrong...

I am wondering though if I actually have two separate issues at the moment.
One being the memory and the other the CMOS battery as you suggest.

Still dont understand that I dont get this message in a normal start up.
But I did find something interesting today as I was looking around
trying to find out about the CMOS/BIOS message.

Found it on my motherboard manufacturers website.....although I did look
there before but didnt have as much knowledge as I do now.

It was referring to a memory mismatch error(that is the message I am
getting isnt it? )

Says that the new size will be detected automatically but I would still
need to intervene in order to avoid the error message.

Said to go into the CMOS/BIOS setup utility, hit ESC and choose to save
when prompted. When it came up at the power failure I didnt know what to
do so I just exited without saving.
I did as it said above this afternoon. Dont know if it fixed anything
guess time and another outage will tell.....

I am not sure but it says on the BIOS page the following
Memory Channel A Slot 0 256 MB DDR400
Memory Channel A Slot 1 1024MB DDR400
Memory Channel B Slot 0 256 MB DDR400
Memory Channel B Slot 1 Not Installed.

From my understanding of the error message this does not appear to be
right.


If it does happen again I guess I will just hit the esc key and save.
But I did find that I couldnt hit the esc key and get the save and exit
option. It asked if I wanted to discard and exit. I actually hit the F10
key...assuming that is just the way this motherboard wants to do it.....

And if that doesnt stop this problem I will refer back to w_toms suggestion.

As for the time/date thing I will replace as you suggested and see if
that fixes that.
Thanks for explaining it easy enough for me to understand. Both you and
w_tom have been great. Sometimes the answer can leave you more confused
than you were when you asked the question.
Thanks again.

Diana in Aus
 
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Diana BB
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-05-2008
w_tom wrote:
> OK. Now I am confused. Your computer BIOS can read from one pin the
> information on each SIMM. But that report says you have 4 memory
> SIMMS - not two. For example, Simm 1 and 3 have two different
> Kingston serial numbers: 05153C00h and 07153E00h.
>
> One solution is to back the system down to a known good
> configuration. For example, only install both Kingston memories.
> Test. If it works, then replace those Kingston memories with other
> 1024 Mb memories and test again.
>
> This to establish integrity of both memory sets. If both memory
> pairs check out, then install all to learn if or what the BIOS
> complains about. We know this much. BIO clearly reads and identifies
> what memories are installed where. So any error message is not
> because memories are misidentified or hardware failure has destroyed
> that 'ID the part' hardware that operates during power up.
>
> According to memory specs, your motherboard should be PC3200 meaning
> that the faster 1024 MB memory is even faster than required - maybe
> more stable. Just an observation; probably not a useful conclusion.
>
> Returning to the 'surprise' failures created by static electricity:
> we once identified tiles that created static electric charges after a
> wax was applied. Never did learn what wax created the problem since
> my part was to eliminate a hardware design defect. Static electric
> charges are created by numerous materials when room humidity is too
> low. Static electric discharges can even create a failure that does
> not appear for months. Just another reason why we take precautions
> such as static wrist strap or touch the chassis case.
>
> Wish I could provide more information on your (intermittent?)
> problem. If it happens again, well, you are better informed to
> identify the failure before it again goes away. Of course, there is an
> execution difference between a cold boot (no problem seen) and a warm
> boot (boot without power cycling). Just another pertinent fact of how
> hardware gets reset; information to collect if the problem happens
> again.
>
> Hopefully this is useful should future problems occur.


Thanks w_tom,
It has been very helpful. As I wrote to Paul,being more aware of what
the problem is I was able to find some info with regards to the brand of
motherboard I have. It seems that when I added the extra memory card it
was detected automatically but I needed to intervene in order to not
receive a memory mismatch error.
I have done as I was instructed and will now have to wait and see if I
get the error message again.....
I am still not sure about the info in the BIOS with regards to the slots
but I will see what happens.
The computer was set up with the two Kingstons I do know that much. As I
said one was designated to the drive that ran the editing program.I am
assuming that if I went back to that then the error message would stop
if that is the original config?
When I read the info in the BIOS it says......

Memory Channel A Slot 0 256 MB DDR400
Memory Channel A Slot 1 1024MB DDR400
Memory Channel B Slot 0 256 MB DDR400
Memory Channel B Slot 1 Not Installed.
That seems mismatched doesnt it? But not sure how to fix it.......hope
you havent answered that and I have not understood what you were saying:

You wrote......
> According to memory specs, your motherboard should be PC3200 meaning
> that the faster 1024 MB memory is even faster than required - maybe
> more stable. Just an observation; probably not a useful conclusion.
>


I am not sure what you mean by this. If you have time to explain I would
like to know.


Thanks so much for making it easy enough to understand. I do appreciate
that and your time to help.

Diana in Aus

>
> On Mar 4, 9:12 am, Diana BB <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> You are right I do have two memory SIMMS. The computer was originally
>> set up for movie editing with two drives, The second was specifically
>> for the movie editing. Since then I gave added more memory.
>>
>> I have the program Everest and it tells me that I have the following.....
>>
>> [ DIMM1: Kingston K ]
>>
>> Memory Module Properties:
>> Module Name Kingston K
>> Serial Number 05153C00h
>> Manufacture Date Week 29 / 2003
>> Module Size 256 MB (1 rank,
>> 4 banks)
>> Module Type Unbuffered
>> Memory Type DDR SDRAM
>> Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
>> Module Width 64 bit
>> Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
>> Error Detection Method None
>> Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
>> us), Self-Refresh
>>
>> Memory Timings:
>> @ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>> @ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>> @ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>>
>> [ DIMM2: 128M64K-40C ]
>>
>> Memory Module Properties:
>> Module Name 128M64K-40C
>> Serial Number 040413C3h
>> Module Size 1024 MB (2
>> ranks, 4 banks)
>> Module Type Unbuffered
>> Memory Type DDR SDRAM
>> Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
>> Module Width 64 bit
>> Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
>> Error Detection Method None
>> Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
>> us), Self-Refresh
>>
>> Memory Timings:
>> @ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>> @ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>> @ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>>
>> [ DIMM3: Kingston K ]
>>
>> Memory Module Properties:
>> Module Name Kingston K
>> Serial Number 07153E00h
>> Manufacture Date Week 29 / 2003
>> Module Size 256 MB (1 rank,
>> 4 banks)
>> Module Type Unbuffered
>> Memory Type DDR SDRAM
>> Memory Speed PC3200 (200 MHz)
>> Module Width 64 bit
>> Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
>> Error Detection Method None
>> Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8
>> us), Self-Refresh
>>
>> Memory Timings:
>> @ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>> @ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>> @ 133 MHz 2.0-2-2-6
>> (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
>>
>> [ Memory Devices / J5G1 ]
>>
>> Memory Device Properties:
>> Form Factor DIMM
>> Type Detail Synchronous
>> Size 256 MB
>> Speed 400 MHz
>> Total Width 64-bit
>> Data Width 64-bit
>> Device Locator J5G1
>> Bank Locator CHANNEL A DIMM0
>> Manufacturer Manufacturer1
>> Serial Number SerNum1
>> Asset Tag AssetTagNum1
>> Part Number PartNum1
>>
>> [ Memory Devices / J5G2 ]
>>
>> Memory Device Properties:
>> Form Factor DIMM
>> Type Detail Synchronous
>> Size 1024 MB
>> Speed 400 MHz
>> Total Width 64-bit
>> Data Width 64-bit
>> Device Locator J5G2
>> Bank Locator CHANNEL A DIMM1
>> Manufacturer Manufacturer2
>> Serial Number SerNum2
>> Asset Tag AssetTagNum2
>> Part Number PartNum2
>>
>> [ Memory Devices / J5H1 ]
>>
>> Memory Device Properties:
>> Form Factor DIMM
>> Type Detail Synchronous
>> Size 256 MB
>> Speed 400 MHz
>> Total Width 64-bit
>> Data Width 64-bit
>> Device Locator J5H1
>> Bank Locator CHANNEL B DIMM2
>> Manufacturer Manufacturer3
>> Serial Number SerNum3
>> Asset Tag AssetTagNum3
>> Part Number PartNum3
>>
>> [ Memory Devices / J5H2 ]
>>
>> Memory Device Properties:
>> Form Factor DIMM
>> Type Detail Synchronous
>> Speed 400 MHz
>> Total Width 64-bit
>> Data Width 64-bit
>> Device Locator J5H2
>> Bank Locator CHANNEL B DIMM3
>> Manufacturer Manufacturer4
>> Serial Number SerNum4
>> Asset Tag AssetTagNum4
>> Part Number PartNum4
>>
>> I had one of the drives crash about 12 months ago after a root kit
>> virus. It was the SATA drive. I replaced this with a PATA...I was told
>> that was okay.
>> But the only time I get this message is when it reboots itself after the
>> last two power outages. They are very brief outages and there is no time
>> to turn the computer off at the wall. When I shut down per Windows
>> shutdown and restart the computer I do not get this message. Everything
>> appears to be normal.
>> As you say we always unplug everything from the computer before opening
>> the case and stand on tiles and short ourselves out before we touch
>> anything.
>> I do have it set for fast boot( I think that is what it is called) in
>> the BIOS setup. Is that why I do not get the message in a normal start up?
>>
>> Thanks for your input and advice.
>>
>> Diana In Aus

 
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Paul
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-05-2008
Diana BB wrote:

>
> Thanks again Paul,
>
> Wasnt your fault I didnt understand. I dont know a lot about the
> internal workings of my computer. Usually learn when something goes
> wrong...
>
> I am wondering though if I actually have two separate issues at the moment.
> One being the memory and the other the CMOS battery as you suggest.
>
> Still dont understand that I dont get this message in a normal start up.
> But I did find something interesting today as I was looking around
> trying to find out about the CMOS/BIOS message.
>
> Found it on my motherboard manufacturers website.....although I did look
> there before but didnt have as much knowledge as I do now.
>
> It was referring to a memory mismatch error(that is the message I am
> getting isnt it? )
>
> Says that the new size will be detected automatically but I would still
> need to intervene in order to avoid the error message.
>
> Said to go into the CMOS/BIOS setup utility, hit ESC and choose to save
> when prompted. When it came up at the power failure I didnt know what to
> do so I just exited without saving.
> I did as it said above this afternoon. Dont know if it fixed anything
> guess time and another outage will tell.....
>
> I am not sure but it says on the BIOS page the following
> Memory Channel A Slot 0 256 MB DDR400
> Memory Channel A Slot 1 1024MB DDR400
> Memory Channel B Slot 0 256 MB DDR400
> Memory Channel B Slot 1 Not Installed.
>
> From my understanding of the error message this does not appear to be
> right.
>
>
> If it does happen again I guess I will just hit the esc key and save.
> But I did find that I couldnt hit the esc key and get the save and exit
> option. It asked if I wanted to discard and exit. I actually hit the F10
> key...assuming that is just the way this motherboard wants to do it.....
>
> And if that doesnt stop this problem I will refer back to w_toms
> suggestion.
>
> As for the time/date thing I will replace as you suggested and see if
> that fixes that.
> Thanks for explaining it easy enough for me to understand. Both you and
> w_tom have been great. Sometimes the answer can leave you more confused
> than you were when you asked the question.
> Thanks again.
>
> Diana in Aus


To tell if something is actually wrong with the RAM, you'd start
by taking the side off the computer case, and verifying how many
sticks are physically present. Based on the thread so far,
you seem to have four slots. A four slot machine is typically a
dual channel capable machine, meaning there can be a performance
advantage by meeting certain memory matching criteria.

The reason we'd want to open the case, is to count the sticks.
If four sticks were present, and one of them just died, then
your symptoms would be a bit easier to understand. If there
were three sticks, and there had always been three sticks,
then you might have seen that "mismatch" message before.

Depending on the computer and the quality of its documentation,
it might explain somewhere, how "matched" the memory has to be.

Some Intel chipsets, use "A1+A2=B1+B2" to get dual channel
operation. What that means, is the total memory in each channel,
has to be the same quantity. For example, it would be sufficient
to use 512MB+0MB = 256MB+256MB. That would be three sticks,
where one of the sticks is twice the size of the other sticks.
And yet it could run in a dual channel mode.

Some other chipsets use A1=B1 and A2=B2. To meet that, you'd perhaps
buy pairs of DIMMs packaged as such (for convenience). You could
use 2x256MB and 2x1GB, for a total of 2.5GB of memory. A pair would
go into A1,B1 and a pair would go in A2,B2. The dual channel slots
may have identically colored DIMM slots. (A1,B1 white plastic,
A2,B2 blue plastic etc. Color is arbitrary, and contrasting colors
are used to make figuring out the matching easier.)

Since you say you currently have 256+256+1024, that set of
three sticks cannot meet either of the above stated cases.
That means the motherboard would run in single channel mode.
That may reduce memory bandwidth, and cost about 10% application
performance (just a rough guess).

You can test the memory sticks, one at a time, even at the BIOS
level. You could power off and install just one stick at a time,
and verify it is working OK (like seen in the BIOS, or test with
memtest86+ on a floppy disk).

If you are satisfied that the three sticks are being identified
correctly, and you really do own 256+256+1024, then there is no
need to test the sticks individually (unless you suspect
one of them is bad or is throwing errors or the machine
is crashing).

To make the sticks match, the easiest addition would be another
1024MB stick. That would give enough memory, to suit either kind
of chipset behavior described in the two examples above.

Or you can just ignore the issue entirely Plenty of people
run systems with single channel configurations, and are none the
wiser. This issue doesn't have to affect stability, and if you
aren't looking for every ounce of performance (like this is your
email machine for example), in fact there might not be an incentive
to even take the side off the machine. If, on the other hand,
the machine crashes a lot, then memtest86+ and Prime95 are
good tools for detecting the problem (and perhaps even
fixing it). To work around memory problems, you'd need to
know a bit more about adjusting the BIOS. And not every
motherboard has the necessary settings (microATX boards,
the ones that are 9.6"x9.6", don't tend to have very
good BIOS in this regard).

If you want to go further on this, either indicate the
make and model of computer, or the make and model of
motherboard. And also state what actual sticks are
installed in the slots (like if you have four sticks
and only three are being detected).

Before touching the sticks, you do want the switch on
the back of the computer to be in the OFF position. On
my computer, I unplug the power cord, mainly as a fail
safe way of assuring myself there is no power present
in the chassis. Standby power keeps the RAM sockets
powered, which is why I unplug for safety. You shouldn't
insert or remove stuff from live sockets, as it can get
damaged. (Yes, we can have a long discussion about
static electricity, but I don't want to go into that
now )

Paul
 
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w_tom
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      03-05-2008
On Mar 5, 1:21 am, Diana BB <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I am wondering though if I actually have two separate issues at the moment.
> One being the memory and the other the CMOS battery as you suggest.


Before fixing anything, you want to know if that battery is good or
bad. This is but another in a long list of reasons why a 3.5 digit
multimeter is such as powerful tool. Do not remove the battery. Use
the meter in 20 VDC setting to read that battery voltage. For
example, if that coin cell battery is a CR2032, then voltage should be
something like 3.0 volts. If only 2.8 volts, then battery should be
replaced sometime in the next year. If lower, then battery may be
part of your problem.

Best battery voltage measurement is with battery always attached to
the motherboard. Now you know without any confusion whether the
battery would explain your problem. If battery is above 2.8 volts,
then your problem is elsewhere.

Multimeter is an inexpensive tool sold in Radio Shack, Sears, Lowes,
any hardware store, Home Depot, or even K-mart. The tool is that
ubiquitous and that simple. Best price is often in Wal-mart for about
$16. Multimeters look complex. But a cell phone is far more complex.

Paul has described how memory works. Also useful is to record part
numbers on each memory board and in which slots each memory is
located. This could confirm what the BIOS reports and better explain
which part of Paul's post applies to your configuration.

Usually, the relevant number is on a paper pasted on that board.
If no paper label, then recording the part number on duplicated on
each IC and counting the number of ICs could also physically identify
that Simm.

Meanwhile, taking that battery voltage (and identifying the battery
- is it a 2032?) would immediately terminate any further battery
speculations AND suggest how many years before a new battery is
required.
 
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