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Jeff
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      01-25-2008
Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:23:20
> GMT Jeff scribed:
>
>>>>> SAZ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A lesson in this business that I learned a long time ago - do what
>>>>>> the customer wants, no matter how stupid it seems. Why give the
>>>>>> work (and money) to someone else?
>>>>> Because that isn't the only consideration in the world?
>>>>>
>>>> You can be as self-righteous as you want. You can advise against
>>>> something all day, but if the client wants it and it's legal, give it
>>>> to him or be prepared to lose the business.
>>> There is no disagreement with that statement. The discussion is about
>>> whether to do it regardless for other reasons, and legal is not always
>>> ethical or just.
>>>
>>>> Anyone who has any kind of business sense knows that it's cheaper and
>>>> easier to keep a customer than find a new one.
>>> How profound. But how cheap do you sell yourself to keep that

> customer?
>> Just how high and mighty do you think you are?

>
> 5'8", 155lbs. of pure ****-powered man-meat. Hell, I could tie
> Schwarzeneggar in a knot before he had time to move if I hit him below
> the belt.


6'6" 225lbs.
>
>> This whole thread is about background music on one of the pages of one
>> of my clients.

>
> Not exactly, but in any case my reply was to a message about giving the
> client what he wants.


No, you were proselytizing when it was specifically requested that you
stay on the sidelines unless you had something technical to contribute.
>
>> That's a little cheesy, but it hardly means I've sold
>> myself cheaply. Now, I've listened to that music I resisted, and I've
>> come to the conclusion that if it makes my client and her visitors
>> happy (it's a metaphysical type site) than why not.

>
> Because as I implied and Harlan Messinger stated more directly, there are
> other considerations. However, it doesn't mean you "sold yourself
> cheaply", either. I was speaking in general terms with that.


Just leave it be. Does this always have to degenerate into
personality conflicts?
>
>> Why should she, her
>> clients, or myself care if you want to throw a righteous hissy fit.

>
> Perhaps one or more of them are members of Hissy Fittists Anonymous. Who
> knows?


Call it what you may. But don't you see how this drives people away
from an html group when they get more attitude than answers? All the
longest threads are like that. We all know where each other is coming
from, it's not like we're covering new ground.

There's a few authoring and design issues I'd like to discuss, but it's
hard breaking any new ground when you are treated like a heretic. I'd
rather save the energy.

Perhaps I just don't have the patience for this anymore.

Jeff
>

 
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Neredbojias
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      01-25-2008
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:07:39
GMT Jeff scribed:

>>>>> You can be as self-righteous as you want. You can advise against
>>>>> something all day, but if the client wants it and it's legal, give
>>>>> it to him or be prepared to lose the business.
>>>> There is no disagreement with that statement. The discussion is
>>>> about whether to do it regardless for other reasons, and legal is
>>>> not always ethical or just.
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone who has any kind of business sense knows that it's cheaper
>>>>> and easier to keep a customer than find a new one.
>>>> How profound. But how cheap do you sell yourself to keep that

>> customer?
>>> Just how high and mighty do you think you are?

>>
>> 5'8", 155lbs. of pure ****-powered man-meat. Hell, I could tie
>> Schwarzeneggar in a knot before he had time to move if I hit him
>> below the belt.

>
> 6'6" 225lbs.


Ho, a big 'un! How's the weather up thare?

>>> This whole thread is about background music on one of the pages of
>>> one of my clients.

>>
>> Not exactly, but in any case my reply was to a message about giving
>> the client what he wants.

>
> No, you were proselytizing when it was specifically requested that
> you
> stay on the sidelines unless you had something technical to
> contribute.


Proselytizing isn't illegal, and in this case, my client (me) wanted to
do it. Furthermore, professing one's beliefs isn't detrimental to
humanity when those beliefs are true and valid.

>>> That's a little cheesy, but it hardly means I've sold
>>> myself cheaply. Now, I've listened to that music I resisted, and
>>> I've come to the conclusion that if it makes my client and her
>>> visitors happy (it's a metaphysical type site) than why not.

>>
>> Because as I implied and Harlan Messinger stated more directly, there
>> are other considerations. However, it doesn't mean you "sold
>> yourself cheaply", either. I was speaking in general terms with
>> that.

>
> Just leave it be. Does this always have to degenerate into
> personality conflicts?


What personality conflict? Do you believe that your personality is in
conflict with my personality? That can hardly be true because you don't
even know me well. However, I know you well enough to see that you seem
to grasp onto the nearest trite cliche, slogan, or dogma to express
yourself.

>>> Why should she, her
>>> clients, or myself care if you want to throw a righteous hissy fit.

>>
>> Perhaps one or more of them are members of Hissy Fittists Anonymous.
>> Who knows?

>
> Call it what you may. But don't you see how this drives people away
> from an html group when they get more attitude than answers? All the
> longest threads are like that.


Sure, that's pretty accurate. But their expectations of a helpdesk are
rather unrealistic, anyway, and as I said before, the answerers are here
for reasons of their own as well. I enjoy helping people sometimes but
I'm not going to kiss their asses to do it and I am going to express my
opinions as I, not they, see fit. If they don't like it, let them take a
hike.

> We all know where each other is coming
> from, it's not like we're covering new ground.
>
> There's a few authoring and design issues I'd like to discuss, but
> it's hard breaking any new ground when you are treated like a heretic.
> I'd rather save the energy.


As big as you are physically, you sound rather weak in spirit.

> Perhaps I just don't have the patience for this anymore.


Perhaps. Or perhaps you're just tired of the bullshit. Maybe you're
getting old, too. (Look at what happened to Blinky.) Btw, you shrink
when you age if you haven't already noticed.

--
Neredbojias
Riches are their own reward.
 
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Jeff
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      01-25-2008
Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:07:39
> GMT Jeff scribed:
>
>>>>>> You can be as self-righteous as you want. You can advise against
>>>>>> something all day, but if the client wants it and it's legal, give
>>>>>> it to him or be prepared to lose the business.
>>>>> There is no disagreement with that statement. The discussion is
>>>>> about whether to do it regardless for other reasons, and legal is
>>>>> not always ethical or just.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone who has any kind of business sense knows that it's cheaper
>>>>>> and easier to keep a customer than find a new one.
>>>>> How profound. But how cheap do you sell yourself to keep that
>>> customer?
>>>> Just how high and mighty do you think you are?
>>> 5'8", 155lbs. of pure ****-powered man-meat. Hell, I could tie
>>> Schwarzeneggar in a knot before he had time to move if I hit him
>>> below the belt.

>> 6'6" 225lbs.

>
> Ho, a big 'un! How's the weather up thare?


I think the old line is I'll spit in your eye and you'll know it's
raining up here.
>
>>>> This whole thread is about background music on one of the pages of
>>>> one of my clients.
>>> Not exactly, but in any case my reply was to a message about giving
>>> the client what he wants.

>> No, you were proselytizing when it was specifically requested that
>> you
>> stay on the sidelines unless you had something technical to
>> contribute.

>
> Proselytizing isn't illegal, and in this case, my client (me) wanted to
> do it. Furthermore, professing one's beliefs isn't detrimental to
> humanity when those beliefs are true and valid.
>
>>>> That's a little cheesy, but it hardly means I've sold
>>>> myself cheaply. Now, I've listened to that music I resisted, and
>>>> I've come to the conclusion that if it makes my client and her
>>>> visitors happy (it's a metaphysical type site) than why not.
>>> Because as I implied and Harlan Messinger stated more directly, there
>>> are other considerations. However, it doesn't mean you "sold
>>> yourself cheaply", either. I was speaking in general terms with
>>> that.

>> Just leave it be. Does this always have to degenerate into
>> personality conflicts?

>
> What personality conflict? Do you believe that your personality is in
> conflict with my personality?


Well, no.

That can hardly be true because you don't
> even know me well. However, I know you well enough to see that you seem
> to grasp onto the nearest trite cliche, slogan, or dogma to express
> yourself.
>
>>>> Why should she, her
>>>> clients, or myself care if you want to throw a righteous hissy fit.
>>> Perhaps one or more of them are members of Hissy Fittists Anonymous.
>>> Who knows?

>> Call it what you may. But don't you see how this drives people away
>> from an html group when they get more attitude than answers? All the
>> longest threads are like that.

>
> Sure, that's pretty accurate. But their expectations of a helpdesk are
> rather unrealistic, anyway, and as I said before, the answerers are here
> for reasons of their own as well. I enjoy helping people sometimes but
> I'm not going to kiss their asses to do it and I am going to express my
> opinions as I, not they, see fit. If they don't like it, let them take a
> hike.


I really don't have a problem with that. I read a few technical
groups and it's expected for people to research before they post. Taking
OPs down that don't is fair game.
>
>> We all know where each other is coming
>> from, it's not like we're covering new ground.
>>
>> There's a few authoring and design issues I'd like to discuss, but
>> it's hard breaking any new ground when you are treated like a heretic.
>> I'd rather save the energy.

>
> As big as you are physically, you sound rather weak in spirit.
>
>> Perhaps I just don't have the patience for this anymore.

>
> Perhaps. Or perhaps you're just tired of the bullshit.


Mostly. I've got a lot to do and don't have the time for this. Surely,
you've bee there?

Maybe you're
> getting old, too. (Look at what happened to Blinky.) Btw, you shrink
> when you age if you haven't already noticed.



Jeff
>

 
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Neredbojias
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-26-2008
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:38:14
GMT Jeff scribed:

>>> 6'6" 225lbs.

>>
>> Ho, a big 'un! How's the weather up thare?

>
> I think the old line is I'll spit in your eye and you'll know it's
> raining up here.


<grin>

>>>>> Why should she, her
>>>>> clients, or myself care if you want to throw a righteous hissy
>>>>> fit.
>>>> Perhaps one or more of them are members of Hissy Fittists
>>>> Anonymous. Who knows?
>>> Call it what you may. But don't you see how this drives people
>>> away
>>> from an html group when they get more attitude than answers? All the
>>> longest threads are like that.

>>
>> Sure, that's pretty accurate. But their expectations of a helpdesk
>> are rather unrealistic, anyway, and as I said before, the answerers
>> are here for reasons of their own as well. I enjoy helping people
>> sometimes but I'm not going to kiss their asses to do it and I am
>> going to express my opinions as I, not they, see fit. If they don't
>> like it, let them take a hike.

>
> I really don't have a problem with that. I read a few technical
> groups and it's expected for people to research before they post.
> Taking OPs down that don't is fair game.


Of course. Otoh, it is true the people sometimes become fairly abusive
in responding to posts but the correct procedure is just to ignore those
and address the constructive replies only. It takes 2 (or more) to
argue.

>>> We all know where each other is coming
>>> from, it's not like we're covering new ground.
>>>
>>> There's a few authoring and design issues I'd like to discuss, but
>>> it's hard breaking any new ground when you are treated like a
>>> heretic. I'd rather save the energy.

>>
>> As big as you are physically, you sound rather weak in spirit.
>>
>>> Perhaps I just don't have the patience for this anymore.

>>
>> Perhaps. Or perhaps you're just tired of the bullshit.

>
> Mostly. I've got a lot to do and don't have the time for this. Surely,
> you've bee there?


Oh yeah. Sometimes when I get real busy I get dingy. But when the smoke
clears and the money rolls in, it seems like it's all worth it. I
wonder, though, if it is.

--
Neredbojias
Riches are their own reward.
 
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dorayme
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      01-26-2008
In article <Xns9A3150D619D2Enanopandaneredbojias@85.214.90.23 6>,
Neredbojias <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> But when the smoke
> clears and the money rolls in, it seems like it's all worth it.


I understand you earn big money at web related things. Good for
you. I make my money in another way:

In Australia at the beaches, there are are public showers. For
water conservation reasons, the local councils have button taps
on them, these must be kept pressed for the water to flow. They
are small and smooth and the tiles or stainless steel sheeting
behind them are smooth too (precluding any easy jamming device).
It is very hard to keep the shower going without a human finger.

I employ an army of little boys and girls (these little suckers I
pay absolute peanuts to) to offer swimmers, for a small fee, to
hold the button that keeps the public showers going. It is a big
money spinner and as a result, I am able to offer my web services
completely for free.

--
dorayme
 
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aoksite1@gmail.com
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      01-26-2008
On Jan 26, 1:58 pm, dorayme <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <Xns9A3150D619D2Enanopandaneredboj...@85.214.90.23 6>,
>
> Neredbojias <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > But when the smoke
> > clears and the money rolls in, it seems like it's all worth it.

>
> I understand you earn big money at web related things. Good for
> you. I make my money in another way:
>
> In Australia at the beaches, there are are public showers. For
> water conservation reasons, the local councils have button taps
> on them, these must be kept pressed for the water to flow. They
> are small and smooth and the tiles or stainless steel sheeting
> behind them are smooth too (precluding any easy jamming device).
> It is very hard to keep the shower going without a human finger.
>
> I employ an army of little boys and girls (these little suckers I
> pay absolute peanuts to) to offer swimmers, for a small fee, to
> hold the button that keeps the public showers going. It is a big
> money spinner and as a result, I am able to offer my web services
> completely for free.
>
> --
> dorayme


And you are proud of exploiting children?

Daniel

 
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dorayme
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      01-26-2008
In article
<(E-Mail Removed)
m>,
"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Jan 26, 1:58 pm, dorayme <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In article <Xns9A3150D619D2Enanopandaneredboj...@85.214.90.23 6>,
> >
> > Neredbojias <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > > But when the smoke
> > > clears and the money rolls in, it seems like it's all worth it.

> >
> > I understand you earn big money at web related things. Good for
> > you. I make my money in another way:
> >
> > In Australia at the beaches, there are are public showers. For
> > water conservation reasons, the local councils have button taps
> > on them, these must be kept pressed for the water to flow. They
> > are small and smooth and the tiles or stainless steel sheeting
> > behind them are smooth too (precluding any easy jamming device).
> > It is very hard to keep the shower going without a human finger.
> >
> > I employ an army of little boys and girls (these little suckers I
> > pay absolute peanuts to) to offer swimmers, for a small fee, to
> > hold the button that keeps the public showers going. It is a big
> > money spinner and as a result, I am able to offer my web services
> > completely for free.
> >
> > --
> > dorayme

>
> And you are proud of exploiting children?
>


No, I am deeply ashamed. It is no excuse that they enjoy the
work, entertain the crowds that gather (the showers are on public
promenades), get extra hidden tips from the swimmers (which, btw,
I am trying to stamp out or get a cut of). But I have checked
with my lawyers and it is perfectly legal if it is done in a
certain way. Apparently there is a little known 19th century
Australian law that allows it, if, in effect, the adult openly
dresses in the manner of Fagin and stoops around smiling with
coins jingling ostentatiously in the pocket.

--
dorayme
 
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Neredbojias
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      01-27-2008
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:58:00 GMT
dorayme scribed:

> In article <Xns9A3150D619D2Enanopandaneredbojias@85.214.90.23 6>,
> Neredbojias <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> But when the smoke
>> clears and the money rolls in, it seems like it's all worth it.

>
> I understand you earn big money at web related things. Good for
> you. I make my money in another way:


Ahh, there's more to the story but I won't explain it because doing so can
only be detrimental to my personal fortune. I'm not the greatest web
author or programmer who ever lived; there are people here undoubtedly
better and more talented, but sometimes I do have a certain tenacity of
purpose which serves me in good form and circumstances have smiled upon me
occasionally as well.

> In Australia at the beaches, there are are public showers. For
> water conservation reasons, the local councils have button taps
> on them, these must be kept pressed for the water to flow. They
> are small and smooth and the tiles or stainless steel sheeting
> behind them are smooth too (precluding any easy jamming device).
> It is very hard to keep the shower going without a human finger.
>
> I employ an army of little boys and girls (these little suckers I
> pay absolute peanuts to) to offer swimmers, for a small fee, to
> hold the button that keeps the public showers going. It is a big
> money spinner and as a result, I am able to offer my web services
> completely for free.


Just goes to show what an obdurate finger can accomplish.

--
Neredbojias
Riches are their own reward.
 
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Neredbojias
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      01-27-2008
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:04:03 GMT
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) scribed:

>> I employ an army of little boys and girls (these little suckers I
>> pay absolute peanuts to) to offer swimmers, for a small fee, to
>> hold the button that keeps the public showers going. It is a big
>> money spinner and as a result, I am able to offer my web services
>> completely for free.
>>
>> --
>> dorayme

>
> And you are proud of exploiting children?


What else are they good for (-possibly besides an occasional snack)?

--
Neredbojias
Riches are their own reward.
 
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