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Shane
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      08-09-2007
Allistar wrote:

> peterwn wrote:
>
>> Miguel wrote:
>>> On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:00:23 +1200, peterwn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>>>> Are there any free FTP programs around? I used to have one in a
>>>>> Windows 95 machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes Linux / Gnome. The distant FTP site is a folder on the desktop and
>>>> you can simply drag files in and out just as if it were on the same
>>>> computer.
>>>
>>> Hello Peter...If it's not too much trouble can you expand on that
>>> please.

>>
>> Gnome provides GUI interfaces for this purpose (I use Gnome under Debian
>> Etch for almost everything). Assuming the 'distant' computer has the
>> appropriate 'server' end software running, and appropriate settings you
>> can interact with any of the usual modes ie smb, ftp, secure ftp, scp,
>> etc. The GUI interface invokes the corresponding 'client' software. A
>> password if needed can be entered on each occasion or kept on the Gnome
>> 'keyring'. Naturally you would use the most secure method - I use scp
>> if available on the distant machine. It is brilliant.
>>
>> All needed software is on the Debian Etch first DVD and most if not all
>> on the first CD.

>
> I have noticed FTP is much faster than scp for downloading large files.
> And this isn't a CPU constraint - the machines at both ends are powerful
> enough. E.g. I can FTP a file from a server at 600kB/s, but the same file
> from the same server using scp would only be about 250kB/s. Maybe the scp
> protocol sends smaller chunks, so more replies need to be sent, and on a
> 80ms latency connection could explain the difference. I wouldn't have
> thought so though.
>
> Allistar.


Overhead due to encryption would be?
--
Q: What's purple and commutes?
A: An Abelian grape.

 
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Mark Robinson
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      08-09-2007
Allistar wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the ability
>>>>> to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux mount" or
>>>>> "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous (i.e.
>>>> public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>> benefit.

>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?

>
> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
> running. I do have SSH access though.


fish://server/ works in konqueror
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
In message <f9en44$j4d$(E-Mail Removed)>, Shane wrote:

> Allistar wrote:
>
>> I have noticed FTP is much faster than scp for downloading large files.
>> And this isn't a CPU constraint - the machines at both ends are powerful
>> enough. E.g. I can FTP a file from a server at 600kB/s, but the same file
>> from the same server using scp would only be about 250kB/s. Maybe the scp
>> protocol sends smaller chunks, so more replies need to be sent, and on a
>> 80ms latency connection could explain the difference. I wouldn't have
>> thought so though.

>
> Overhead due to encryption would be?


That would be a CPU constraint. I just tried SCPing a file of 14MB or so
between my two Linux boxes (via a 100Mb switch), and it went across in
about a second. So CPU was not the constraint there.
 
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Enkidu
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
Allistar wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the ability
>>>>> to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux mount" or
>>>>> "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous (i.e.
>>>> public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>> benefit.

>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?

>
> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
> running. I do have SSH access though.
>

Wouldn't it be easier to use scp then?

Cheers,

Cliff

--

Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
'hilarious', it usually isn't?
 
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Allistar
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
Shane wrote:

> Allistar wrote:
>
>> peterwn wrote:
>>
>>> Miguel wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:00:23 +1200, peterwn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>>>>> Are there any free FTP programs around? I used to have one in a
>>>>>> Windows 95 machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes Linux / Gnome. The distant FTP site is a folder on the desktop
>>>>> and you can simply drag files in and out just as if it were on the
>>>>> same computer.
>>>>
>>>> Hello Peter...If it's not too much trouble can you expand on that
>>>> please.
>>>
>>> Gnome provides GUI interfaces for this purpose (I use Gnome under Debian
>>> Etch for almost everything). Assuming the 'distant' computer has the
>>> appropriate 'server' end software running, and appropriate settings you
>>> can interact with any of the usual modes ie smb, ftp, secure ftp, scp,
>>> etc. The GUI interface invokes the corresponding 'client' software. A
>>> password if needed can be entered on each occasion or kept on the Gnome
>>> 'keyring'. Naturally you would use the most secure method - I use scp
>>> if available on the distant machine. It is brilliant.
>>>
>>> All needed software is on the Debian Etch first DVD and most if not all
>>> on the first CD.

>>
>> I have noticed FTP is much faster than scp for downloading large files.
>> And this isn't a CPU constraint - the machines at both ends are powerful
>> enough. E.g. I can FTP a file from a server at 600kB/s, but the same file
>> from the same server using scp would only be about 250kB/s. Maybe the scp
>> protocol sends smaller chunks, so more replies need to be sent, and on a
>> 80ms latency connection could explain the difference. I wouldn't have
>> thought so though.
>>
>> Allistar.

>
> Overhead due to encryption would be?


I doubt it. My box is a quad core 2.66GHz box with 2GB 800MHz memory, which
I would think is up to the task (when scping the file the CPU usage barely
moves off 1%). The receiving machine is a single core 3.06GHz machine with
3GB of memory. CPU usage is similarly low.

I've noticed a similar thing across a LAN as well.

Allistar.
 
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Allistar
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
> wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the
>>>>>> ability to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux
>>>>>> mount" or "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous (i.e.
>>>>> public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>>>
>>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>>> benefit.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?

>>
>> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
>> running. I do have SSH access though.

>
> Yes, but SFTP is a standard feature of SSH.


See my response to Mark to see why it's not that simple.

Allistar.

 
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Allistar
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
Mark Robinson wrote:

> Allistar wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the
>>>>>> ability to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux
>>>>>> mount" or "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous (i.e.
>>>>> public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>>> benefit.
>>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?

>>
>> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
>> running. I do have SSH access though.

>
> fish://server/ works in konqueror


It's not that simple in this case:

I do all of this through a gateway server (not running the FTP server). I
forward an SSH port from my local machine to the FTP server via the gateway
server. I cannot directly see the FTP server (for ssh that is) from here.

Allistar.
 
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Allistar
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
Enkidu wrote:

> Allistar wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the
>>>>>> ability to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux
>>>>>> mount" or "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous (i.e.
>>>>> public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>>> benefit.
>>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?

>>
>> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
>> running. I do have SSH access though.
>>

> Wouldn't it be easier to use scp then?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff


See my response to Mark to see why it's not that simple.

Allistar.

 
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Mark Robinson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
Allistar wrote:
> Mark Robinson wrote:
>> Allistar wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the
>>>>>>> ability to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux
>>>>>>> mount" or "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous (i.e.
>>>>>> public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>>>> benefit.
>>>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?
>>> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
>>> running. I do have SSH access though.

>> fish://server/ works in konqueror

>
> It's not that simple in this case:
>
> I do all of this through a gateway server (not running the FTP server). I
> forward an SSH port from my local machine to the FTP server via the gateway
> server. I cannot directly see the FTP server (for ssh that is) from here.


fish uses ssh rather than ftp or sftp.
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-09-2007
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter is probably referring to either KIOSlaves in KDE, of the
>>>>>>> ability to mount a remote folder (of type "ftp"). Google for "Linux
>>>>>>> mount" or "FTP KIOSlave" for more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, note that you should only be using FTP for anonymous
>>>>>> (i.e. public) downloads. If you need to authenticate, then FTP is
>>>>>> fundamentally insecure, since it sends plain-text passwords over the
>>>>>> connection. In that case, use SFTP (part of SSH) instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes indeed. I often do FTP over a forwarded SSH port, giving the same
>>>>> benefit.
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be simpler to just use SFTP?
>>>
>>> Yes, but I don't administer the remote server and there's no SFTP server
>>> running. I do have SSH access though.

>>
>> Yes, but SFTP is a standard feature of SSH.

>
> See my response to Mark to see why it's not that simple.


But once you have the SSH port forwarded, then everything available through
SSH becomes accessible through that, including SFTP. SFTP doesn't use its
own port, it just piggybacks on SSH, port 22.
 
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