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Is the FSF Linux's biggest enemy?

 
 
Mickey Mouse
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      07-29-2007
Who funds the Free Software Foundation?

Are they an unrepresentative clique of ideologues motivated by self
interest?

Do they encourage the growth of Linux by embracing innovation and expansion
into new market segments?

Why does Linus have reservations about GPLv3?



 
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Peter
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      07-29-2007
Mickey Mouse wrote:
> Who funds the Free Software Foundation?


Whoever funds FSF probably don't consider themselves answerable to you.

> Are they an unrepresentative clique of ideologues motivated by self
> interest?


Of course not. They are representative of themselves.

> Do they encourage the growth of Linux by embracing innovation and
> expansion into new market segments?


Maybe, but their stated goal is freedom in software.

> Why does Linus have reservations about GPLv3?


What's wrong with that? Can't you accept that different people can have
differing opinions?



Peter

 
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peterwn
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      07-29-2007
Mickey Mouse wrote:
> Who funds the Free Software Foundation?


Memberships and sales so it appears. Turnover about 3/4 million USD -
would be less than a tycoon's petty cash account, and assets about the
same - doubt you could buy a corporate jet for that.

>
> Are they an unrepresentative clique of ideologues motivated by self
> interest?


Perhaps some would view it in this light. One could attach the same
comment to Auckland International Airport, Helen Clark's government,
SCO, Bruce Hucker's Auckland City Council, the Maxim Institute, etc,
etc. Others would view it in a different light such as freedom, 'breath
of fresh air', Kibbutz-like etc

>
> Do they encourage the growth of Linux by embracing innovation and
> expansion into new market segments?


I do not think the FSF even supports Linux (referring to the kernel as
distinguished from the constellation of software sometimes incorrectly
called Linux). Their objectives I think would be more like a co-op,
that is members and supporters collaborate to craft tools they have a
need for and are interested in. Humanity is welcome to share the good
works but should contribute something back.

The works in question are definitely not there to be monetised by IT
tycoons, nor to benefit toll collecting trolls who live under bridges.

If you mean 'embracing' as in 'embrace, extend, extinguish', then
definitely not.

>
> Why does Linus have reservations about GPLv3?
>


Different philosophical outlook. Given the frailties of human nature
that is not at all surprising.

One could perhaps view FSF as just another stall in the large
co-operative open-source bazaar - the one that has many stalls - run by
all sorts of people from the meek to the mighty (Richard Stallman, Linus
Torvalds, Andrew Morton, Pamela Jones, Eben Moglen, Roy Schestowitz,
etc, etc) - even multiple bazaars around the world. Such outfits run
completely differently from Fortune 500 cathedrals with their bishops,
deans, chapters, canons, crucifiers, acolytes, choirboys, vergers, etc.
all in a strict hierarchical order.
 
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Chris Wilkinson
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      07-29-2007
Hi there,

Mickey Mouse wrote:
> <snip>


The FSF is not Linux' biggest enemy, but sad little anonymous
FUD-packing children like you don't pose much of a threat either.

Don't you have anything more fulfilling in life to do, like
collecting your toe-jam?

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
"Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
or not they wanted all these wars"...


 
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Mickey Mouse
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      07-29-2007
"peterwn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:46ac4c22$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Mickey Mouse wrote:
>> Who funds the Free Software Foundation?

>
> Memberships and sales so it appears. Turnover about 3/4 million USD -
> would be less than a tycoon's petty cash account, and assets about the
> same - doubt you could buy a corporate jet for that.


The newest information I have been able to find is from 2005 on the Charity
Navigator website - it would seem they don't extend their source code model
to their financial accounts;

Revenue
Primary Revenue $674,349
Other Revenue $114,105
Total Revenue $788,454

Expenses
Program Expenses $540,838
Administrative Expenses $64,201
Fundraising Expenses $92,900
Total Functional Expenses $697,939

Excess (or Deficit) for the year $90,515

Net Assets $892,021

Located separately, current financial patrons would appear to include Cisco,
EMC, Google, HP, IBM, Intel, Nokia and Sun.

 
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Mickey Mouse
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      07-29-2007
"Chris Wilkinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:46ac593d$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi there,
>
> Mickey Mouse wrote:
>> <snip>

>
> The FSF is not Linux' biggest enemy, but sad little anonymous
> FUD-packing children like you don't pose much of a threat either.
>
> Don't you have anything more fulfilling in life to do, like
> collecting your toe-jam?


Well I can't expect everyone to be up to debating the issues, as evidenced
by your "contribution".

 
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peterwn
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      07-29-2007
Mickey Mouse wrote:
> "peterwn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:46ac4c22$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Mickey Mouse wrote:
>>> Who funds the Free Software Foundation?

>>
>> Memberships and sales so it appears. Turnover about 3/4 million USD -
>> would be less than a tycoon's petty cash account, and assets about the
>> same - doubt you could buy a corporate jet for that.

>
> The newest information I have been able to find is from 2005 on the
> Charity Navigator website - it would seem they don't extend their source
> code model to their financial accounts;
>
> Revenue
> Primary Revenue $674,349
> Other Revenue $114,105
> Total Revenue $788,454
>
> Expenses
> Program Expenses $540,838
> Administrative Expenses $64,201
> Fundraising Expenses $92,900
> Total Functional Expenses $697,939
>
> Excess (or Deficit) for the year $90,515
>
> Net Assets $892,021
>
> Located separately, current financial patrons would appear to include
> Cisco, EMC, Google, HP, IBM, Intel, Nokia and Sun.


This is quite a reasonable spread of sponsors across the IT spectrum.
Interestingly, these total amounts are less than the annual income and
net worth respectively of *one* second or third level manager in a
typical large multinational company, especially when backdated stock
options are taken into account. The salaries of the two top EFF
employees are on a par with those of rather minor employees in a large
organisation.

Now the sponsor lists and payrolls of certain Washington DC beltway
think tanks would make quite interesting reading if the figures could be
obtained.

 
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Bruce Sinclair
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      07-29-2007
In article <1185696405.498873@ftpsrv1>, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Mickey Mouse wrote:
>> Who funds the Free Software Foundation?

>
>Whoever funds FSF probably don't consider themselves answerable to you.
>
>> Are they an unrepresentative clique of ideologues motivated by self
>> interest?

>
>Of course not. They are representative of themselves.
>
>> Do they encourage the growth of Linux by embracing innovation and
>> expansion into new market segments?

>
>Maybe, but their stated goal is freedom in software.
>
>> Why does Linus have reservations about GPLv3?

>
>What's wrong with that? Can't you accept that different people can have
>differing opinions?


Not from the heaps of messages that mr mouse has posted. Some of them
disagree with his dogma, and are therefore, wrong
Don't feed it and it will go away.

Thanks


 
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Chris Wilkinson
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      07-31-2007
Hi there,

Mickey Mouse wrote:
> "Chris Wilkinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> message news:46ac593d$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Mickey Mouse wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>

>>
>>
>> The FSF is not Linux' biggest enemy, but sad little anonymous
>> FUD-packing children like you don't pose much of a threat either.
>>
>> Don't you have anything more fulfilling in life to do, like
>> collecting your toe-jam?

>
> Well I can't expect everyone to be up to debating the issues, as
> evidenced by your "contribution".


The issue is that some kernel devs are not as happy about some
aspects of the draft GPLv3 as they could be. You have taken that
and twisted it by suggesting their disagreement makes them
enemies.

Find me one link where either the FSF or Linus or anyone else
of importance in the Linux world has declared the other to be
a bona fide enemy and I'll concede. Until then you're just a snide
little anonymous usenet FUD-packer coward and windbag...

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
"Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
or not they wanted all these wars"...


 
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Mickey Mouse
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      07-31-2007
"Chris Wilkinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:46af08af$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi there,
>
> Mickey Mouse wrote:


>> Well I can't expect everyone to be up to debating the issues, as
>> evidenced by your "contribution".

>
> Find me one link where either the FSF or Linus or anyone else
> of importance in the Linux world has declared the other to be
> a bona fide enemy and I'll concede. Until then you're just a snide
> little anonymous usenet FUD-packer coward and windbag...


Well, if you choose to remain in denial holding up the FSF as an elite
organisation beyond reproach or examination, then I can't force you to open
your eyes.

From the Chambers online dictionary;
enemy 1 a person who is actively opposed to someone else. 2 a hostile nation
or force, or a member of it. 3 an opponent or adversary. 4 a person or thing
that opposes or acts against someone or something

It is clear that the FSF do not share Linus' vision of how and where he
would like to see Linux headed, as evidenced by postings concerning GPLv3.
The FSF do not represent Linux or Linus, but are instead pushing Stallman's
own neo-political agenda.

'I hate it how the FSF thinks others are morons and cannot read or think for
themselves. Any time you disagree with the FSF, you "misunderstand" (insert
condescending voice) the issue. _Please_ don't continue that idiocy.
Disagreement and thinking that the FSF is controlling and putting its
fingers where they don't belong is _not_ misunderstanding. It's just not
"blind and unquestioning obedience".'

'And it's _fine_ to even be in it "just to make a quick buck". We do want
all kinds of input. I think the community is much healthier having lots of
different reasons for people wanting to be involved, rather than
concentrating on just some specific reason. For some it's the technology.
For some it's the license. For some it's just a thing to pass boredom.
Others like to learn. Whatever. It's all good!'

'And then the FSF has the gall to call themselves the "protector of
freedoms", and claim that everybody else is evil. What a crock.'

'Yet it's what the GPLv3 tries to shove down our throats in the name of
"freedom".'

'And this is again the same *disease*. You claim that I "misunderstood" the
"spirit of the GPL".'

'Any language attempts to make it appear otherwise are just sophistry.'

'Rms calls it "tivoization", but that's a word he has made up, and a term I
find offensive'

'The fact that you are unable to even apparently fathom this fundamental
issue, and that the FSF thinks that they own the definition of "freedom" is
_your_ problem. You're acting like some Alice-in-Wonderland character,
saying that your
definition of words is the only one that matter. And that others are
"confused". Read up on your humpty-dumpty some day.'

http://kerneltrap.org/node/8382

 
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