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Oh go on, we need an OOo vs Office thread

 
 
Shane
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-17-2007
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210

The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
licenses.

For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.


--
Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
A: A Bananach space.

 
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peterwn
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-18-2007
Shane wrote:
> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>
> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
> licenses.
>


This is the whole point. Microsoft may provide a very sweet deal if
pressured to retain or regain customers. I say "may", since it may not
be in their interests to give all comers a similar sweet deal.
Microsoft will continue to seek out such "trophy" customers.

The big potential losers are not major businesses, but small businesses
and individuals (especially those with no access to cheap 'home
licences' via employers), as they can only buy 'shrinkwrap' versions at
retail prices and have no bargaining power over price or EULA. It is
this group that Microsoft is so anxious to 'lock in' as it most probably
provides a major portion of Microsoft income.

This is why I am shamelessly pushing the "Office" file format issue here
- this is the guts of the whole issue - and one that will affect many
ordinary users in the very near future. I repeat - it is a file format
issue, not a Microsoft v Linux issue as Microsoft fans would like to
portray it.
 
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Fred Dagg
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-18-2007
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:47:36 +1200, Shane <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net>
exclaimed:

>http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>
>The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
>the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>licenses.
>
>For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
>have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
>getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
>The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.


So their deal was cheaper than OOo?
 
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sam
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-18-2007
Fred Dagg wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:47:36 +1200, Shane <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net>
> exclaimed:
>
>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>>
>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>> licenses.
>>
>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.

>
> So their deal was cheaper than OOo?


It would be a more credible news item if it wasn't such an obvious
jack-up between Microsoft NZ and a former staff member.
 
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Fred Dagg
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-18-2007
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:45:53 +1200, sam <(E-Mail Removed)>
exclaimed:

>Fred Dagg wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:47:36 +1200, Shane <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net>
>> exclaimed:
>>
>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>>>
>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>>> licenses.
>>>
>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.

>>
>> So their deal was cheaper than OOo?

>
>It would be a more credible news item if it wasn't such an obvious
>jack-up between Microsoft NZ and a former staff member.


Oh come on. That's a copout, sorry.
 
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Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-19-2007
"Shane" <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net> wrote in message
news:f7jkav$hgd$(E-Mail Removed)...
> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>
> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO
> of
> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
> licenses.
>
> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
> suites,
> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
> you're
> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
>
>
> --
> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
> A: A Bananach space.
>


FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no means
the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/s...se_rights.mspx

Brett Roberts
Microsoft NZ

 
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Shane
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-19-2007
Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

> "Shane" <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net> wrote in message
> news:f7jkav$hgd$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>>
>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO
>> of
>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>> licenses.
>>
>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
>> suites,
>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
>> you're
>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
>> A: A Bananach space.
>>

>
> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/s...se_rights.mspx
>
> Brett Roberts
> Microsoft NZ


Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not receiving
the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
for their staff?

--
Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
A: He worked it out with a pencil!

 
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Fred Dagg
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-19-2007
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:41:33 +1200, Shane <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net>
exclaimed:
>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>>>
>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO
>>> of
>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>>> licenses.
>>>
>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
>>> suites,
>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
>>> you're
>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
>>> A: A Bananach space.
>>>

>>
>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/s...se_rights.mspx
>>
>> Brett Roberts
>> Microsoft NZ

>
>Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not receiving
>the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
>for their staff?


You and your ilk always talk about "entitlements". In the real world,
agreements are negotiated between parties. Nobody is "entitled" to
anything.
 
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Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-20-2007
"Shane" <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net> wrote in message
news:f7mtei$ggj$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
>
>> "Shane" <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net> wrote in message
>> news:f7jkav$hgd$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>>>
>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The
>>> CIO
>>> of
>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>>> licenses.
>>>
>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
>>> suites,
>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
>>> you're
>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
>>> migration.
>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
>>> A: A Bananach space.
>>>

>>
>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/s...se_rights.mspx
>>
>> Brett Roberts
>> Microsoft NZ

>
> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
> receiving
> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
> for their staff?
>
> --
> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
>


You're not getting this are you ? Home Usage Rights aren't some
secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any customer
can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to us
about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license agreement.
By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a number of Software
Assurance benefits:

http://www.microsoft.com/australia/l.../benefits.mspx

While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for what
they're worth...

Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats) OO.o
competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my memory
serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I am enough
of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and been
completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers were already
using OO.o and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e. they wanted out
of OO.o). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by customer but there are
some common threads to most of the discussions I've been involved in:

- issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with this
alone that they immediately ditched OO.o)
- issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a full
re-install still needed ?)
- lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email client)
- lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g. Sharepoint in our
case)
- users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office suite
first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
(further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
management in two of the competitive situations)
- difficulties in developing applications on top of OO.o
- no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in a
big way)
- the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap

That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. OO.o may have a
roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite Linux
disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure vendor of
choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of all ours) but,
from conversations I've had with a large number of management and IT people
here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to choke" is seen as
one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of them.

The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix of
functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by a
hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in NZ.

HTH

Brett Roberts
Microsoft NZ




 
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Shane
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-20-2007
Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

> "Shane" <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net> wrote in message
> news:f7mtei$ggj$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
>>
>>> "Shane" <(E-Mail Removed)-a-geek.net> wrote in message
>>> news:f7jkav$hgd$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/17/1815210
>>>>
>>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The
>>>> CIO
>>>> of
>>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
>>>> licenses.
>>>>
>>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
>>>> suites,
>>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
>>>> you're
>>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
>>>> migration.
>>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
>>>> A: A Bananach space.
>>>>
>>>
>>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
>>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
>>>
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/s...se_rights.mspx
>>>
>>> Brett Roberts
>>> Microsoft NZ

>>
>> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
>> receiving
>> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
>> for their staff?
>>
>> --
>> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
>> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
>>

>
> You're not getting this are you ?


I love the way you (and the shills) make this an us vs them argument.
Its a poor VP indeed that doesnt recognise an oppourtunity to clear the air
on an issue being given to them when its placed on a silver platter.


> Home Usage Rights aren't some
> secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any customer
> can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
> involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to us
> about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license
> agreement. By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a
> number of Software Assurance benefits:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/australia/l.../benefits.mspx
>
> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
> what they're worth...
>
> Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats) OO.o
> competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my memory
> serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I am enough
> of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and been
> completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers were
> already using OO.o and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e. they
> wanted out of OO.o). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by customer
> but there are some common threads to most of the discussions I've been
> involved in:
>
> - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with
> this alone that they immediately ditched OO.o)
> - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a full
> re-install still needed ?)
> - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email
> client) - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g. Sharepoint
> in our case)
> - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office suite
> first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
> (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
> management in two of the competitive situations)
> - difficulties in developing applications on top of OO.o
> - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in a
> big way)
> - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap
>
> That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. OO.o may have a
> roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite
> Linux disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure
> vendor of choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of all
> ours) but, from conversations I've had with a large number of management
> and IT people here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to
> choke" is seen as one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of
> them.
>
> The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix of
> functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by a
> hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in NZ.
>
> HTH
>
> Brett Roberts
> Microsoft NZ


Jesus that took some prodding didnt it...


--
"The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
degrees and try again..."

 
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