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A podcast interview with Peter Gutmann on Vista DRM

 
 
Dianthus Mimulus
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      01-14-2007
http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-074.htm

High quality (64 kbps) mp3 audio file URL:
http://media.GRC.com/sn/SN-074.mp3

Quarter size (16 kbps) mp3 audio file URL:
http://media.GRC.com/sn/sn-074-lq.mp3


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Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/full...#_Toc447960918
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      01-14-2007
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Dianthus Mimulus wrote:

> http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-074.htm


Leo: What you’re describing is an operating system that is essentially
insanely paranoid. It’s gone off the deep end.
PETER: That’s true.
 
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David Goodwin
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      01-14-2007
I think this DRM crap in Windows NT 6 is great. It just provides
another reason for people to switch to Linux. Its just one more
advantage that Linux has over windows now. And Microsoft was kind
enough to pay all of the development costs too.

On 14 Jan 2007 14:23:25 +1300, Dianthus Mimulus
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-074.htm
>
>High quality (64 kbps) mp3 audio file URL:
>http://media.GRC.com/sn/SN-074.mp3
>
>Quarter size (16 kbps) mp3 audio file URL:
>http://media.GRC.com/sn/sn-074-lq.mp3
>
>
>--
>Dianthus Mimulus
>
>Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
>http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/full...#_Toc447960918


 
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Phil
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      01-14-2007
David Goodwin wrote, On 14/01/07 3.53 p:
> I think this DRM crap in Windows NT 6 is great. It just provides
> another reason for people to switch to Linux. Its just one more
> advantage that Linux has over windows now. And Microsoft was kind
> enough to pay all of the development costs too.


How is it an advantage not to at least support DRM? If you're customers
want to play new HD content, and you don't support it, you've lost them.

-Phil

 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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      01-14-2007
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Phil wrote:

> David Goodwin wrote, On 14/01/07 3.53 p:
>
>> I think this DRM crap in Windows NT 6 is great. It just provides
>> another reason for people to switch to Linux. Its just one more
>> advantage that Linux has over windows now. And Microsoft was kind
>> enough to pay all of the development costs too.

>
> How is it an advantage not to at least support DRM? If [your] customers
> want to play new HD content...


Wrong assumption. Your assumption is really "If your customers want to put
up with the hoops they will have to jump through and the bullshit as thick
as treacle that they will have to wade through to play new HD content...".

Once it is clarified in that way, you realize that the pool of such
customers may turn out to be smaller than some are expecting.

 
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Dianthus Mimulus
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      01-14-2007
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:33:46 +1300, Phil wrote:

> How is it an advantage not to at least support DRM? If you're customers
> want to play new HD content, and you don't support it, you've lost them.


You don't need to implement the restrictions - merely implement the
ability to decode and to play the HD-DVD content.

Why implement any of the restrictions?


--
Dianthus Mimulus

Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/full...#_Toc447960918
 
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Craig Whitmore
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      01-14-2007

"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote in message
news:eocvj5$1fd$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Phil wrote:
>
>> David Goodwin wrote, On 14/01/07 3.53 p:
>>
>>> I think this DRM crap in Windows NT 6 is great. It just provides
>>> another reason for people to switch to Linux. Its just one more
>>> advantage that Linux has over windows now. And Microsoft was kind
>>> enough to pay all of the development costs too.

>>
>> How is it an advantage not to at least support DRM? If [your] customers
>> want to play new HD content...

>
> Wrong assumption. Your assumption is really "If your customers want to put
> up with the hoops they will have to jump through and the bullshit as thick
> as treacle that they will have to wade through to play new HD content...".


How are you going to stop/make it hard for people to make a 100% copy of
your work?

hoops? If your OS/Hardware supports DRM then the encrypted stuff will just
work. If not then it will not work. If you don't accept you have to use
something which supports it then no one is forcing you to watch it. Do you
want to Watch protected movies without accepting the T&C of actually
watching it?

Is you real problem DRM? not Vista or other OS's which support DRM or other
copyright methods? If you think any kind of copyright methods are bad then
get rid of your VCR Tapes /Units (Macrovision), your DVD players
(macrovision,css), your cellphones, smart cards, Sky TV, even your unix
passwords are encrypted so no one else can use your computer without your
permission + anything else which has any kind of encryption to limit what
you can or cannot do with the data on it.

Craig


 
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Peter Huebner
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      01-14-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> Subject: Re: A podcast interview with Peter Gutmann on Vista DRM
> From: David Goodwin <(E-Mail Removed)>
> Newsgroups: nz.comp
>
> I think this DRM crap in Windows NT 6 is great. It just provides
> another reason for people to switch to Linux. Its just one more
> advantage that Linux has over windows now. And Microsoft was kind
> enough to pay all of the development costs too.
>


I am afraid you are ****ing dreaming. Consider: ATI and NVidia are going to
start filling up their sound and graphics reproducing chips with all kinds of
crap, tilt bits and what have you to support Vista and Mickeysoft.
We are talking HARDWARE. And you will no longer get access to the specs, so it
will be much, much harder to write drivers for it, never mind if you are going
to be running BEOS, Tiger or Windows 98 on it.

In other words: we are all going to get screwed, because the hardware
manufacurers will NOT be ignoring Mickeysoft on this one. And you linux guys
may well get screwed even worse than windows users. Congratulations.

-Peter

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Peter Huebner
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      01-14-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)lid says...
>
> You don't need to implement the restrictions - merely implement the
> ability to decode and to play the HD-DVD content.
>
> Why implement any of the restrictions?
>


Read the interview again. Pay specific attention to what was said about
hardware implementation with dependencies in the OS. Pay attention to what was
said about 'not documenting the workings of the devices'. Now explain to me how
you will write a [linux] driver that does decryption, for a partially
undocumented grafix device with incorporated, hardwired malware (by trial and
error? I think not).

Basically, there is only one way of cicumventing this stuff, and that is buying
hardware that doesn't have the crap implemented and hardwired in (yet).

Fan-bloody-tastic.

I have been sitting here for the last 6-9 months wondering if I should think
about upgrading NOW, before it's too late - when I don't even know what gear is
already infected -- or if I just shouldn't bother. I don't give a **** about
HD-tv on my comp.
And I don't need a bleeding edge system for twitchies, I am fine playing
nethack on this system, until it falls over. Which, sadly, it will eventually
do. I will most certainly not be supporting the Evil Empire (and by that I
mean the unholy alliance of Microsoft and Hollywood) with my dollars; either by
purchasing ANY drm media nor by buying Vista.

-Peter

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David Goodwin
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      01-14-2007
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:43:34 +1300, Peter Huebner
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I am afraid you are ****ing dreaming. Consider: ATI and NVidia are going to
>start filling up their sound and graphics reproducing chips with all kinds of
>crap, tilt bits and what have you to support Vista and Mickeysoft.
>We are talking HARDWARE. And you will no longer get access to the specs, so it
>will be much, much harder to write drivers for it, never mind if you are going
>to be running BEOS, Tiger or Windows 98 on it.
>
>In other words: we are all going to get screwed, because the hardware
>manufacurers will NOT be ignoring Mickeysoft on this one. And you linux guys
>may well get screwed even worse than windows users. Congratulations.
>


While there is certainly a very real risk of infected hardware causing
problems Im not sure that it will be much different from the current
situation. Right now AMD and NVidia keep the specs of their video
cards secret and their linux drivers are closed source and only
provided in binary form. About the only way the AMD/NVidia situation
could get worse is if they discontinued linux driver support entirely.

 
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