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A Tune for your Zune, you're not Immune...

 
 
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-19-2006
Not sure what to make of this item
<http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34478>. Basically, if you were
sucked into Microsoft's previous "Plays For Sure" marketing exercise, then
none of the music you paid good money for will play on a Zune. Same applies
for any video material you might have bought.

So how do you get stuff into your new Zune gizmo? Basically, you have to
break the law and use copy-protection circumvention tools to rip content
into a Zune-compatible format.

Is this good or bad? From a compatibility-with-existing-products viewpoint,
it looks like a Visaster. But then again, the requirement of illegality
might appeal to a certain rebel, "bad-boy" element...
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-29-2006
More on the Zune. According to this
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft will
take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the content.

Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music Store
doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling iPods.
Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed that most
of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music Store.

Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the Zune...
 
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-=rjh=-
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-29-2006
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> More on the Zune. According to this
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft will
> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the content.
>
> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music Store
> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling iPods.
> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed that most
> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music Store.
>
> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the Zune...


Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an ipod
killer.

So that is all it has to do

Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people to
buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite nice anyway.

Meanwhile, this is continuing the trend of really neat hardware, totally
stuffed up by marketing and DRM: e-book reader, HD displays, Zune...
 
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-29-2006
In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, -=rjh=- wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the Zune...

>
> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an ipod
> killer.


Yeah, but if it a) doesn't achieve significant market penetration, and b)
earn a profit for the company, then it just makes them look like bumbling
incompetents. Not to mention further depressing their share price and
****ing off their shareholders. Not something you can continue doing
indefinitely.

> Meanwhile, this is continuing the trend of really neat hardware, totally
> stuffed up by marketing and DRM: e-book reader, HD displays, Zune...


Yup. *Sigh* ...
 
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Earl Grey
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-29-2006
-=rjh=- wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> More on the Zune. According to this
>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft will
>> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the content.
>>
>> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music Store
>> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling iPods.
>> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed that most
>> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music
>> Store.
>>
>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the Zune...

>
> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an ipod
> killer.
>
> So that is all it has to do
>
> Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people to
> buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite nice anyway.


If thats all there was to it then the Toshiba Gigabeat would already
have killed the ipod
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/t...inch-qvga-lcd/
 
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-=rjh=-
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-29-2006
Earl Grey wrote:
> -=rjh=- wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> More on the Zune. According to this
>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft will
>>> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the content.
>>>
>>> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music
>>> Store
>>> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling iPods.
>>> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed that
>>> most
>>> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music
>>> Store.
>>>
>>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the Zune...

>>
>> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an ipod
>> killer.
>>
>> So that is all it has to do
>>
>> Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people to
>> buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite nice
>> anyway.

>
> If thats all there was to it then the Toshiba Gigabeat would already
> have killed the ipod
> http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/t...inch-qvga-lcd/
>


But I could name several other players that offer better value/more
features than the ipod.

Obviously, there is a lot more to it; but basically, this is ipod vs the
rest. At the moment, the rest are a hodgepodge of different
manufacturers and capabilities with no unifying features that the
customer can discern (I'll bet the average customer doesn't look at this
as itunes VS WMP).

Almost everybody associates ipod with media players, just like people
still call PocketPCs 'Palm Pilots', and the Pilot hasn't been made for
10 years or so.

Apple has cleaned up because the rest of the market is so fragmented, if
MS had done Zune a few years ago, they may have been able to get some
traction, but I'd say it is too late now - none of the other
manufacturers are going to walk away from their investment in the
market, because the market is so big.

Maybe if the market shrank, things would be different, but that seems
unlikely at present.
 
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Earl Grey
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-29-2006
-=rjh=- wrote:
> Earl Grey wrote:
>> -=rjh=- wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> More on the Zune. According to this
>>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft will
>>>> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the content.
>>>>
>>>> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music
>>>> Store
>>>> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling iPods.
>>>> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed that
>>>> most
>>>> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music
>>>> Store.
>>>>
>>>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the
>>>> Zune...
>>>
>>> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an
>>> ipod killer.
>>>
>>> So that is all it has to do
>>>
>>> Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people to
>>> buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite nice
>>> anyway.

>>
>> If thats all there was to it then the Toshiba Gigabeat would already
>> have killed the ipod
>> http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/t...inch-qvga-lcd/
>>

>
> But I could name several other players that offer better value/more
> features than the ipod.
>

The Toshiba Gigabeat S is the player that has been rebranded Microsoft
Zune, which is why I mentioned in specifically.
Better value would be marginal and the ipod looks like it has a quite
intentionally restricted feature set.
Its success is due to making it as simple as possible for someone who
has never connected another device to their computer before.
There are lessons to be learned from the way they did it.
 
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Earl Grey
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-30-2006
-=rjh=- wrote:
> Earl Grey wrote:
>> -=rjh=- wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> More on the Zune. According to this
>>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft will
>>>> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the content.
>>>>
>>>> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music
>>>> Store
>>>> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling iPods.
>>>> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed that
>>>> most
>>>> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music
>>>> Store.
>>>>
>>>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the
>>>> Zune...
>>>
>>> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an
>>> ipod killer.
>>>
>>> So that is all it has to do
>>>
>>> Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people to
>>> buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite nice
>>> anyway.

>>
>> If thats all there was to it then the Toshiba Gigabeat would already
>> have killed the ipod
>> http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/t...inch-qvga-lcd/
>>

>
> But I could name several other players that offer better value/more
> features than the ipod.
>
> Obviously, there is a lot more to it; but basically, this is ipod vs the
> rest. At the moment, the rest are a hodgepodge of different
> manufacturers and capabilities with no unifying features that the
> customer can discern (I'll bet the average customer doesn't look at this
> as itunes VS WMP).
>
> Almost everybody associates ipod with media players, just like people
> still call PocketPCs 'Palm Pilots', and the Pilot hasn't been made for
> 10 years or so.
>


Yup, its now an iconic object, which is a status that Apple hasn't had
since they discontinued the classic Mac

Social: http://pridesandprejudices.com/2006-09-29.html
Political: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4435639.stm
Geographic:
http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archi...ipod_ad_i.html
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...tm?list1263752
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/05/10.10.shtml

Its got more pop culture mindshare than the bunny vibe on Sex and the
City :-p
 
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-=rjh=-
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-30-2006
Earl Grey wrote:
> -=rjh=- wrote:
>> Earl Grey wrote:
>>> -=rjh=- wrote:
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> More on the Zune. According to this
>>>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft
>>>>> will
>>>>> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the
>>>>> content.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes Music
>>>>> Store
>>>>> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling
>>>>> iPods.
>>>>> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed
>>>>> that most
>>>>> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes Music
>>>>> Store.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the
>>>>> Zune...
>>>>
>>>> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an
>>>> ipod killer.
>>>>
>>>> So that is all it has to do
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people
>>>> to buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite
>>>> nice anyway.
>>>
>>> If thats all there was to it then the Toshiba Gigabeat would already
>>> have killed the ipod
>>> http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/t...inch-qvga-lcd/
>>>

>>
>> But I could name several other players that offer better value/more
>> features than the ipod.
>>

> The Toshiba Gigabeat S is the player that has been rebranded Microsoft
> Zune, which is why I mentioned in specifically.


What a crock. Do some research.

I don't buy that story, this is some use of the term "rebranding" that I
was not previously familiar with. Have you got a reference for your
assertion - other than all the hype around some analysts speculation and
the subsequent uncritical promotion of that on various fora around the
net? The Mac and ipod fanboys and MS knockers have been particularly
active promoting this.

Given that the two devices have different feature sets, play different
files, use different DRM, and have different hardware, I don't see how
this can be true.

If you compare the internals of the device that was submitted to the FCC
and the internals of the Gigabeat S it is quite clear that they are not
the same device. They don't even use the same battery.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/25/f...le-lot-like-a/
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.en...nesysboard.jpg
vs
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archi...0-teardown.php
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archi...part-front.php

Given that the devices are both made by Toshiba, they are likely to
share a lot of componentry, and the form factor is pretty well defined
these days anyway - but this isn't unusual, and doesn't mean the Zune is
just a rebranded version of the other.

Seems in retrospect that the reason BG was so happy to show the Gigabeat
S was merely because MS had already negotiated a contract for the Zune
at that stage. And that he already knew what nobody else did - that MS
was going to compete with all the other players out there.

> Better value would be marginal and the ipod looks like it has a quite
> intentionally restricted feature set.


Speaking of which, the Zune will only use wifi to talk to other Zunes,
and then only to share songs that can only be played 3 times within 3
days. How restricted is that?


I think the Zune will *easily* be as successful as Origami.
 
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Earl Grey
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-30-2006
-=rjh=- wrote:
> Earl Grey wrote:
>> -=rjh=- wrote:
>>> Earl Grey wrote:
>>>> -=rjh=- wrote:
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> More on the Zune. According to this
>>>>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/28/zune_pricing/>, Microsoft
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> take a _loss_ on each Zune sold, and make up the profit on the
>>>>>> content.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is completely the opposite of Apple's model: the iTunes
>>>>>> Music Store
>>>>>> doesn't make (much) money, most of the profit comes from selling
>>>>>> iPods.
>>>>>> Which is just as well, because a recent survey I believe showed
>>>>>> that most
>>>>>> of the music on people's iPods did _not_ come from the iTunes
>>>>>> Music Store.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to succeed with the
>>>>>> Zune...
>>>>>
>>>>> Standard MS business model - it doesn't have to succeed - it's an
>>>>> ipod killer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So that is all it has to do
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they are just saying they'll make a loss to encourage people
>>>>> to buy more - I'll take 10 The hardware actually looks quite
>>>>> nice anyway.
>>>>
>>>> If thats all there was to it then the Toshiba Gigabeat would already
>>>> have killed the ipod
>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/t...inch-qvga-lcd/
>>>>
>>>
>>> But I could name several other players that offer better value/more
>>> features than the ipod.
>>>

>> The Toshiba Gigabeat S is the player that has been rebranded Microsoft
>> Zune, which is why I mentioned in specifically.

>
> What a crock. Do some research.
>
> I don't buy that story, this is some use of the term "rebranding" that I
> was not previously familiar with. Have you got a reference for your
> assertion - other than all the hype around some analysts speculation and
> the subsequent uncritical promotion of that on various fora around the
> net? The Mac and ipod fanboys and MS knockers have been particularly
> active promoting this.
>
> Given that the two devices have different feature sets, play different
> files, use different DRM, and have different hardware, I don't see how
> this can be true.
>
> If you compare the internals of the device that was submitted to the FCC
> and the internals of the Gigabeat S it is quite clear that they are not
> the same device. They don't even use the same battery.
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/25/f...le-lot-like-a/
>
> http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.en...nesysboard.jpg
>
> vs
> http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archi...0-teardown.php
>
> http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archi...part-front.php
>
>
> Given that the devices are both made by Toshiba, they are likely to
> share a lot of componentry, and the form factor is pretty well defined
> these days anyway - but this isn't unusual, and doesn't mean the Zune is
> just a rebranded version of the other.


Well thats just revolutionary then isn't it ?


>
> Seems in retrospect that the reason BG was so happy to show the Gigabeat
> S was merely because MS had already negotiated a contract for the Zune
> at that stage. And that he already knew what nobody else did - that MS
> was going to compete with all the other players out there.
>
>> Better value would be marginal and the ipod looks like it has a quite
>> intentionally restricted feature set.

>
> Speaking of which, the Zune will only use wifi to talk to other Zunes,
> and then only to share songs that can only be played 3 times within 3
> days. How restricted is that?
>
>
> I think the Zune will *easily* be as successful as Origami.


I'm looking forward to seeing the third party OS hacks to use the wifi
to stream from an access point then.
 
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