«

interesting reading, was also wondering how succesful the Aussie itunes is &
whether it has reduced peoples dloading. I for one have not used it partly
because most legal dloads are encoded at 128 which is just yuk & also coz i
buy 2nd hand cds of stuff i really want & encode them all at 256k. Theres
heaps of stuff that i wouldn't dream of buying but dload coz i can get it
for free eg. 90's stuff like Mc Hammer & Vanilla Ice (lol)


"GraB" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Sun, 7 May 2006 21:38:49 +1000, "free2002" <> wrote:
>
>>ahh yeah i'm sure all those people who dloaded a copy of 'Don't Be Cruel'
>>or
>>'the Beat Police' would have gone out & bought the cd if it werent for the
>>fact they could get it for free off the net ;/
>>
> http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/Fil..._March2004.pdf
>
> http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/200...2p_debate.html
>
> One could write a book on how the music suits are claiming losses that
> they can't prove they are actually losing.

On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote:

>GraB wrote:
>
>>
>> Notice what the artists get. This breakdown stinks to high heaven.
>> If there is anyone robbing or hurting anyone, it is the record labels.
>
>Actually, it is probably much worse than the example you give.
>
>Steve Albini has something to say about all this, and he knows the business:
>
>http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
>
>"The Problem With Music
>by Steve Albini
>
>Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I
>always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a
>trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long,
>filled with runny, decaying..."
>
>and the figures he gives at the end of the article are just amazing.

Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that
to produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight?
Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million.
Record labels get a very bad press, they do take a risk in
investing money into bands and recordings, for every sucessfull
group there are probably another 4 that don't make their money
back. They have to recoup their money somehow.

---

On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, someone purporting to be Bette Noir
didst scrawl:

> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote:
>
*SNIP*
> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that
> to produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight?
> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million.
> Record labels get a very bad press, they do take a risk in
> investing money into bands and recordings, for every sucessfull
> group there are probably another 4 that don't make their money
> back. They have to recoup their money somehow.
>
How is it that the book publishing industry doesn't hold their writers
responsible for every last cost if a book doesn't make it? They say "Oh
well, it happens," and look for another book to publish. Quite reasonably
they subtract advances from sales, but they are the ones who wear all the
costs of publication instead of putting them on an account that the writer
must pay back.

The record labels get bad press because they deserve it.
Take a look at http://www.markrubin.com/sxsw/albini.html. Steve Albini
ought to know, if anyone does, what the music industry is like.

--
Matthew Poole
"Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."

Matthew Poole wrote:
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, someone purporting to be Bette
> Noir didst scrawl:
>
>> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
>> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote:
>>
> *SNIP*
>> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that
>> to produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight?
>> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million.
>> Record labels get a very bad press, they do take a risk in
>> investing money into bands and recordings, for every sucessfull
>> group there are probably another 4 that don't make their money
>> back. They have to recoup their money somehow.
>
> The record labels get bad press because they deserve it.
> Take a look at http://www.markrubin.com/sxsw/albini.html. Steve Albini
> ought to know, if anyone does, what the music industry is like.

The last part of the page is the most telling:

The Balance Sheet:
This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.
Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25

On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, Bette Noir wrote:

> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote:
[snip]

>>Actually, it is probably much worse than the example you give.
>>
>>Steve Albini has something to say about all this, and he knows the business:
>>
>>http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
>>
>>"The Problem With Music
>>by Steve Albini
>>
>>Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I
>>always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a
>>trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long,
>>filled with runny, decaying..."
>>
>>and the figures he gives at the end of the article are just amazing.
>
> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that
> to produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight?
> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million.
> Record labels get a very bad press, they do take a risk in
> investing money into bands and recordings, for every sucessfull
> group there are probably another 4 that don't make their money
> back. They have to recoup their money somehow.

FFS did you even read what Albini wrote? You're basically saying the only
way record companies can make money is be defrauding bands.

--
You can't stop the signal

On , , Tue, 09 May 2006 08:12:17 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
Music, Matthew Poole <> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, someone purporting to be Bette Noir
>didst scrawl:
>
>> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
>> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote:
>>
>*SNIP*
>> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that
>> to produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight?
>> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million.
>> Record labels get a very bad press, they do take a risk in
>> investing money into bands and recordings, for every sucessfull
>> group there are probably another 4 that don't make their money
>> back. They have to recoup their money somehow.
>>
>How is it that the book publishing industry doesn't hold their writers
>responsible for every last cost if a book doesn't make it? They say "Oh
>well, it happens," and look for another book to publish. Quite reasonably
>they subtract advances from sales, but they are the ones who wear all the
>costs of publication instead of putting them on an account that the writer
>must pay back.

I have no knowledge of the book publishing industry. I was
talking about the record industry.
It is a gamble on the part of the music publishers which is what
I was saying.

---

On Tue, 09 May 2006 14:30:30 +1200, Bette Noir proclaimed:

> On , , Tue, 09 May 2006 08:12:17 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony Music,
> Matthew Poole <> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, someone purporting to be Bette Noir
>>didst scrawl:
>>
>>> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony >>
> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote: >>
>>*SNIP*
>>> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that >> to
> produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight? >>
> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million. >> Record labels get a
> very bad press, they do take a risk in >> investing money into bands and
> recordings, for every sucessfull >> group there are probably another 4
> that don't make their money >> back. They have to recoup their money
> somehow. >>
>>How is it that the book publishing industry doesn't hold their writers
>>responsible for every last cost if a book doesn't make it? They say "Oh
>>well, it happens," and look for another book to publish. Quite reasonably
>>they subtract advances from sales, but they are the ones who wear all the
>>costs of publication instead of putting them on an account that the
> writer >must pay back.
>
> I have no knowledge of the book publishing industry. I was talking about
> the record industry.
> It is a gamble on the part of the music publishers which is what I was
> saying.

The same argument can be made for a wide range of enterprises... from drug
dealing to playing the money market. Either way, it is an argument that is
not the slightest bit relevant to the discussion. Millions of
people/companies take the same risks, and yet they seem able to
resist abusing/exploiting their position in the same way that the major
labels do.


--
/J/
Cut the crap to email me...
Webcam: http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/glen1070/x.jpg

On , , Tue, 9 May 2006 08:38:52 +1000, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
Music, Ian Galbraith <> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, Bette Noir wrote:
>
>> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
>> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote:
>[snip]
>
>>>Actually, it is probably much worse than the example you give.
>>>
>>>Steve Albini has something to say about all this, and he knows the business:
>>>
>>>http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
>>>
>>>"The Problem With Music
>>>by Steve Albini
>>>
>>>Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I
>>>always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a
>>>trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long,
>>>filled with runny, decaying..."
>>>
>>>and the figures he gives at the end of the article are just amazing.
>>
>> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that
>> to produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight?
>> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million.
>> Record labels get a very bad press, they do take a risk in
>> investing money into bands and recordings, for every sucessfull
>> group there are probably another 4 that don't make their money
>> back. They have to recoup their money somehow.
>
>FFS did you even read what Albini wrote?

I don't happen to agree with his conclusions.

>You're basically saying the only
>way record companies can make money is be defrauding bands.

I said no such thing. Record companies are not defrauding bands.
---

On Thu, 11 May 2006 01:16:36 +1200, Bette Noir wrote:

> On , , Tue, 9 May 2006 08:38:52 +1000, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
> Music, Ian Galbraith <> wrote:
[snip]

>>FFS did you even read what Albini wrote?

> I don't happen to agree with his conclusions.

>>You're basically saying the only
>>way record companies can make money is be defrauding bands.

> I said no such thing. Record companies are not defrauding bands.

Its not a matter of agreeing with his conclusions, unless he is lying he
is presenting facts and those facts amount to fraud.

--
You can't stop the signal

On , , Tue, 09 May 2006 13:18:46 +1000, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony
Music, Jeßus <> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 May 2006 14:30:30 +1200, Bette Noir proclaimed:
>
>> On , , Tue, 09 May 2006 08:12:17 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony Music,
>> Matthew Poole <> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:03:50 +1200, someone purporting to be Bette Noir
>>>didst scrawl:
>>>
>>>> On , , Mon, 08 May 2006 09:45:12 +1200, Re: Rock Bands Sue Sony >>
>> Music, -=rjh=- <> wrote: >>
>>>*SNIP*
>>>> Well why don't the band members have a whip around and use that >> to
>> produce the CD's, covers, international promotion and freight? >>
>> Shouldn't cost them much more than a few million. >> Record labels get a
>> very bad press, they do take a risk in >> investing money into bands and
>> recordings, for every sucessfull >> group there are probably another 4
>> that don't make their money >> back. They have to recoup their money
>> somehow. >>
>>>How is it that the book publishing industry doesn't hold their writers
>>>responsible for every last cost if a book doesn't make it? They say "Oh
>>>well, it happens," and look for another book to publish. Quite reasonably
>>>they subtract advances from sales, but they are the ones who wear all the
>>>costs of publication instead of putting them on an account that the
>> writer >must pay back.
>>
>> I have no knowledge of the book publishing industry. I was talking about
>> the record industry.
>> It is a gamble on the part of the music publishers which is what I was
>> saying.
>
>The same argument can be made for a wide range of enterprises... from drug
>dealing to playing the money market. Either way, it is an argument that is
>not the slightest bit relevant to the discussion. Millions of
>people/companies take the same risks, and yet they seem able to
>resist abusing/exploiting their position in the same way that the major
>labels do.

Well as I said a few posts ago let the band members have a whip
around for the few million or so and do their own production,
advertising and distribution. It should be a doddle if there is
so much profit to be made.

---