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WARNING: TelstraClear cable traffic charging

 
 
Daniel
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      04-23-2006
Switched over to the new 5G plan recently (from the old 1G plan with
national split).

Checked my "usage" recently with the new usage interface, and was rather
curious as to why they no longer specified IP addresses in the usage
listing (so you could see where your traffic was going to or coming
from) - just upstream and downstream totals for a given period.

I also noticed a significant increase in traffic usage, and so did
a little investigating.

I discovered to my annoyance that with the new plans you get charged for
everything and anything. This includes broadcast traffic - certainly not
the case with my previous plan.

The only way to stop getting charged for traffic, is to simply put the
cable modem into standby (turning off the PC is not enough).

This raises a few interesting points:-
* A malicious user can simply flood your cable modem with DoS attacks
(or just ping it like crazy), and that will count towards your usage
* If you like to run your PC/server 24x7 (or even just have a "live"
connection to the internet during normal usage to make yourself
available for instant messaging, Skype etc), then you need to monitor
your usage very carefully
* Unless you a have traffic monitoring tool (ie. NTop, or Ethereal),
there is no other way of establishing exactly where the traffic you are
being charged for comes from or is going to

Something to think about if you're on one of the old plans with the
national split and are contemplating a switch to one of the new plans.
 
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thingy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-23-2006
Daniel wrote:
> Switched over to the new 5G plan recently (from the old 1G plan with
> national split).
>
> Checked my "usage" recently with the new usage interface, and was rather
> curious as to why they no longer specified IP addresses in the usage
> listing (so you could see where your traffic was going to or coming
> from) - just upstream and downstream totals for a given period.
>
> I also noticed a significant increase in traffic usage, and so did
> a little investigating.
>
> I discovered to my annoyance that with the new plans you get charged for
> everything and anything. This includes broadcast traffic - certainly not
> the case with my previous plan.


No it was not...

> The only way to stop getting charged for traffic, is to simply put the
> cable modem into standby (turning off the PC is not enough).
>
> This raises a few interesting points:-
> * A malicious user can simply flood your cable modem with DoS attacks
> (or just ping it like crazy), and that will count towards your usage


This happened with the old plan unless you noticed and complained...ie I
got dos'd with 5 gig of data in 3 odd minutes, I told Paradise who
canceled the charge. Not that they had a lot of choice, if you are on a
256k service you cannot do 5 gig in 3 odd minutes, it just is not
possible.....whatever their meter says....

> * If you like to run your PC/server 24x7 (or even just have a "live"
> connection to the internet during normal usage to make yourself
> available for instant messaging, Skype etc), then you need to monitor
> your usage very carefully
> * Unless you a have traffic monitoring tool (ie. NTop, or Ethereal),
> there is no other way of establishing exactly where the traffic you are
> being charged for comes from or is going to
>
> Something to think about if you're on one of the old plans with the
> national split and are contemplating a switch to one of the new plans.


I got a phone call from Clear, people on the old cable service are now
being forced to change, or go to another type of service, ie adsl or
back to dial up.

Thanks for this comment, I am not so sure it is that big a deal...lots
of people have swapped and I have not seen huge comments on it in here.

Still leaves me in the situation of moving to a "new" less stable
broadband service, back to dialup or give it up altogether....I am
seriously considering auto dialup.....not through Clear though....

regards

Thing





 
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Daniel
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-23-2006
thingy wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
>>
>> I discovered to my annoyance that with the new plans you get charged for
>> everything and anything. This includes broadcast traffic - certainly not
>> the case with my previous plan.

>
>
> No it was not...
>
>> The only way to stop getting charged for traffic, is to simply put the
>> cable modem into standby (turning off the PC is not enough).
>>
>> This raises a few interesting points:-
>> * A malicious user can simply flood your cable modem with DoS attacks
>> (or just ping it like crazy), and that will count towards your usage

>
>
> This happened with the old plan unless you noticed and complained...ie I
> got dos'd with 5 gig of data in 3 odd minutes, I told Paradise who
> canceled the charge. Not that they had a lot of choice, if you are on a
> 256k service you cannot do 5 gig in 3 odd minutes, it just is not
> possible.....whatever their meter says....
>


Nope.

I didn't get charged for broadcast traffic, or even DoS attacks. I have
the usage records for my billing periods dating back 2-3 years
specifically identifying which IP addresses I got charged for.
I could transfer data between myself and someone else on the same subnet
and not get charged - I'm talking gigabytes of data here.

I can't speak for your plan, but, I know I didn't get charged for
unsolicited traffic. Mine was a 1G cap, 2Mbps/512Kbps, with national split.

As for you getting charged for 5GB of data in 3 odd minutes - that is
strange. Although, I know my work colleagues had sometimes downloaded
data far in excess of their 256Kbps limit (when they were on it). One
guy took a screenshot of his "256Kbps" plan downloading (obviously
cached) a file at 8Mbps (actually it might have well been 8 megabytes
per second). The guys figured that paradise would take the bandwidth cap
off on the odd occasion for whatever reason - although, I've not heard
of them doing that recently.
 
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thingy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-23-2006
Daniel wrote:
> thingy wrote:
>
>> Daniel wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I discovered to my annoyance that with the new plans you get charged for
>>> everything and anything. This includes broadcast traffic - certainly not
>>> the case with my previous plan.

>>
>>
>>
>> No it was not...
>>
>>> The only way to stop getting charged for traffic, is to simply put the
>>> cable modem into standby (turning off the PC is not enough).
>>>
>>> This raises a few interesting points:-
>>> * A malicious user can simply flood your cable modem with DoS attacks
>>> (or just ping it like crazy), and that will count towards your usage

>>
>>
>>
>> This happened with the old plan unless you noticed and complained...ie
>> I got dos'd with 5 gig of data in 3 odd minutes, I told Paradise who
>> canceled the charge. Not that they had a lot of choice, if you are on
>> a 256k service you cannot do 5 gig in 3 odd minutes, it just is not
>> possible.....whatever their meter says....
>>

>
> Nope.
>
> I didn't get charged for broadcast traffic, or even DoS attacks. I have
> the usage records for my billing periods dating back 2-3 years
> specifically identifying which IP addresses I got charged for.
> I could transfer data between myself and someone else on the same subnet
> and not get charged - I'm talking gigabytes of data here.


I got charged for a DoS attack, I rang up and it was cancelled/reversed.

Yes, my undertsanding was, local subnet used to be free...

> I can't speak for your plan, but, I know I didn't get charged for
> unsolicited traffic. Mine was a 1G cap, 2Mbps/512Kbps, with national split.
>
> As for you getting charged for 5GB of data in 3 odd minutes - that is
> strange.


What it means is that the metering is on a huge pipe somewhere and didnt
use my max allowable download speed as part of a check to ensure I was
not overcharged.

Although, I know my work colleagues had sometimes downloaded
> data far in excess of their 256Kbps limit (when they were on it). One
> guy took a screenshot of his "256Kbps" plan downloading (obviously
> cached) a file at 8Mbps (actually it might have well been 8 megabytes
> per second). The guys figured that paradise would take the bandwidth cap
> off on the odd occasion for whatever reason - although, I've not heard
> of them doing that recently.


It has happened a few times this year I think....I have downloaded the
odd iso in the last few months, and the speed has been way over my 256k
limit, in the order of 2+meg/sec..........

Other times it is as I would expect....

regards

Thing





 
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Ross Dawson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-24-2006
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:46:02 +1200, thingy <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Daniel wrote:
>> thingy wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I discovered to my annoyance that with the new plans you get charged for
>>>> everything and anything. This includes broadcast traffic - certainly not
>>>> the case with my previous plan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No it was not...
>>>
>>>> The only way to stop getting charged for traffic, is to simply put the
>>>> cable modem into standby (turning off the PC is not enough).
>>>>
>>>> This raises a few interesting points:-
>>>> * A malicious user can simply flood your cable modem with DoS attacks
>>>> (or just ping it like crazy), and that will count towards your usage
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This happened with the old plan unless you noticed and complained...ie
>>> I got dos'd with 5 gig of data in 3 odd minutes, I told Paradise who
>>> canceled the charge. Not that they had a lot of choice, if you are on
>>> a 256k service you cannot do 5 gig in 3 odd minutes, it just is not
>>> possible.....whatever their meter says....
>>>

>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> I didn't get charged for broadcast traffic, or even DoS attacks. I have
>> the usage records for my billing periods dating back 2-3 years
>> specifically identifying which IP addresses I got charged for.
>> I could transfer data between myself and someone else on the same subnet
>> and not get charged - I'm talking gigabytes of data here.

>
>I got charged for a DoS attack, I rang up and it was cancelled/reversed.
>
>Yes, my undertsanding was, local subnet used to be free...
>
>> I can't speak for your plan, but, I know I didn't get charged for
>> unsolicited traffic. Mine was a 1G cap, 2Mbps/512Kbps, with national split.
>>
>> As for you getting charged for 5GB of data in 3 odd minutes - that is
>> strange.

>
>What it means is that the metering is on a huge pipe somewhere and didnt
>use my max allowable download speed as part of a check to ensure I was
>not overcharged.
>
>Although, I know my work colleagues had sometimes downloaded
>> data far in excess of their 256Kbps limit (when they were on it). One
>> guy took a screenshot of his "256Kbps" plan downloading (obviously
>> cached) a file at 8Mbps (actually it might have well been 8 megabytes
>> per second). The guys figured that paradise would take the bandwidth cap
>> off on the odd occasion for whatever reason - although, I've not heard
>> of them doing that recently.

>
>It has happened a few times this year I think....I have downloaded the
>odd iso in the last few months, and the speed has been way over my 256k
>limit, in the order of 2+meg/sec..........
>
>Other times it is as I would expect....
>
>regards
>
>Thing


Just as an aside has anyone done some decent upload tests of their
telstra cable speed, I am supposed to be on a 2mbps up and down plan
but recently was only getting a sustained 1mbps (perhaps just a little
bit more) to a server which certainly should have been able to handle
way more than that.

As to the new usage meter it has had and possibly still has it's
problems I certainly much preferred the old meter. 18 GB in 15
minutes is a little hard to understand (impassable in fact) but that
is what was shown when it had one of it's hissy fits.

Oh and someone at Paradise really ought to go have a look at their
music page where it is still saying the audio from this page isn't
counted towards your monthly total, but what a sorry page it is now
anyway, only one stream available.

Their new plans though do seem somewhat competitive.

--
Cheers for now

Ross Dawson.
 
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David
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-24-2006
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:03:20 +1200, Ross Dawson wrote:

.....

> Just as an aside has anyone done some decent upload tests of their
> telstra cable speed, I am supposed to be on a 2mbps up and down plan
> but recently was only getting a sustained 1mbps (perhaps just a little
> bit more) to a server which certainly should have been able to handle
> way more than that.


Yes. Have had full 2Mbs (& even higher) in speed tests many times. eg. just
a few minutes ago on NZDSL site ie. at peak time:

Download Speed: 4943 kbps (617.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2503 kbps (312.9 KB/sec transfer rate)

Download Speed: 6796 kbps (849.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2408 kbps (301 KB/sec transfer rate)

Download Speed: 6905 kbps (863.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2409 kbps (301.1 KB/sec transfer rate)

http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/index.php?module=Speedtest

Normally get 8500+ kbs down but I have 2 sons currently on other PCs who
are likely diverting some DL capacity. Ours is 10Mbs / 2Mbs, but that
should not affect the upload speed.

###

Re the other issue - our usage is pretty much as we expected; ie.
consistent with what we have downloaded. No surprises so far. The fact
that all traffic would be charged for at full rate was reasonably well
identified beforehand. I assumed that was the reason for the 4-5 fold
increase in cap for most plans.

David


 
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Dodger
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-24-2006
thingy wrote:
> I got a phone call from Clear, people on the old cable service are now
> being forced to change, or go to another type of service, ie adsl or
> back to dial up.


From:
http://paradise.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...i=&p_topview=1
(aaght what an address)

"We will not change your plan unless you ask us to. We can now also do
this mid-cycle for you when requested."


 
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Ross Dawson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2006
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:45:19 +1200, David
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:03:20 +1200, Ross Dawson wrote:
>
>....
>
>> Just as an aside has anyone done some decent upload tests of their
>> telstra cable speed, I am supposed to be on a 2mbps up and down plan
>> but recently was only getting a sustained 1mbps (perhaps just a little
>> bit more) to a server which certainly should have been able to handle
>> way more than that.

>
>Yes. Have had full 2Mbs (& even higher) in speed tests many times. eg. just
>a few minutes ago on NZDSL site ie. at peak time:
>
>Download Speed: 4943 kbps (617.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
>Upload Speed: 2503 kbps (312.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
>
>Download Speed: 6796 kbps (849.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
>Upload Speed: 2408 kbps (301 KB/sec transfer rate)
>
>Download Speed: 6905 kbps (863.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
>Upload Speed: 2409 kbps (301.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
>
>http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/index.php?module=Speedtest
>
>Normally get 8500+ kbs down but I have 2 sons currently on other PCs who
>are likely diverting some DL capacity. Ours is 10Mbs / 2Mbs, but that
>should not affect the upload speed.
>
>###
>
>Re the other issue - our usage is pretty much as we expected; ie.
>consistent with what we have downloaded. No surprises so far. The fact
>that all traffic would be charged for at full rate was reasonably well
>identified beforehand. I assumed that was the reason for the 4-5 fold
>increase in cap for most plans.
>
>David
>

Ok, as far as being aware of the split dissappearing this wasn't made
clear to me at the time of signup, nor was the fact that local traffic
(to and from their servers) was also now going to be counted.

Their music page by the way if I hadn't made it clear before is now
very definitely being counted.

However since the increase in data cap I am now quite happy with what
I have.

--
Cheers for now

Ross Dawson.
 
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Daniel
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2006
Ross Dawson wrote:
>>

> nor was the fact that local traffic
> (to and from their servers) was also now going to be counted.
>
> Their music page by the way if I hadn't made it clear before is now
> very definitely being counted.
>


Precisely.

So, the next time some unsuspecting Windows user (or users as the case
may be) on the new-plan paradise internal network gets a
networking-flooding worm expect your usage to go sky high.
This doesn't even include malicious users who go looking for security holes.
Remember, they don't monitor traffic for individual IP addresses
anymore, so good luck on trying to determine which IP address was doing
the spamming, and how much actual traffic was worm-induced.
 
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Dave Doe
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-25-2006
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:45:19 +1200, David
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:03:20 +1200, Ross Dawson wrote:
> >
> >....
> >
> >> Just as an aside has anyone done some decent upload tests of their
> >> telstra cable speed, I am supposed to be on a 2mbps up and down plan
> >> but recently was only getting a sustained 1mbps (perhaps just a little
> >> bit more) to a server which certainly should have been able to handle
> >> way more than that.

> >
> >Yes. Have had full 2Mbs (& even higher) in speed tests many times. eg. just
> >a few minutes ago on NZDSL site ie. at peak time:
> >
> >Download Speed: 4943 kbps (617.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
> >Upload Speed: 2503 kbps (312.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
> >
> >Download Speed: 6796 kbps (849.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
> >Upload Speed: 2408 kbps (301 KB/sec transfer rate)
> >
> >Download Speed: 6905 kbps (863.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
> >Upload Speed: 2409 kbps (301.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
> >
> >http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/index.php?module=Speedtest
> >
> >Normally get 8500+ kbs down but I have 2 sons currently on other PCs who
> >are likely diverting some DL capacity. Ours is 10Mbs / 2Mbs, but that
> >should not affect the upload speed.
> >
> >###
> >
> >Re the other issue - our usage is pretty much as we expected; ie.
> >consistent with what we have downloaded. No surprises so far. The fact
> >that all traffic would be charged for at full rate was reasonably well
> >identified beforehand. I assumed that was the reason for the 4-5 fold
> >increase in cap for most plans.
> >
> >David
> >

> Ok, as far as being aware of the split dissappearing this wasn't made
> clear to me at the time of signup, nor was the fact that local traffic
> (to and from their servers) was also now going to be counted.
>
> Their music page by the way if I hadn't made it clear before is now
> very definitely being counted.
>
> However since the increase in data cap I am now quite happy with what
> I have.


I haven't changed yet - I guess they'll force me to soon enough. The
music page (fuken crap that it is - 2 channels of 11? is it - available
only) - is still 'free' (I hope) for me.

--
Duncan
 
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