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Interesting developments in VM land

 
 
thingy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-03-2006
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/

Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly a
year earlier then MS.....

regards

Thing
 
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Rimu Atkinson
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      04-03-2006
thingy wrote:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>
> Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
> year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly a
> year earlier then MS.....
>
> regards
>
> Thing

hahaha

you can't help yourself, can you?



R
 
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Steven H
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
Hello thingy,

you make it sound like virtual server is not even out yet and is being delayed
- the artical does give that impression. virtual server has been out for
a while

what they are talking about is a new architecture of Virtual Server whereby
a lot of the load of doing 'vemmy things' is done by the hardware and not
by the virtualized enviroment. i dont fully understand it but the current
virtual server model has something to do with emulating 'ring zero' (i take
it a kernal likes to run here) while in realeaty its running at 'ring three'
of the host system. so multiple virtualized operating systems can be ran
on the same hardware.

----------------
Steven H

the madGeek

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>
> Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
> year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly
> a year earlier then MS.....
>
> regards
>
> Thing
>



 
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Brett Roberts
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
"thingy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>
> Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
> year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly a
> year earlier then MS.....
>
> regards
>
> Thing


Personally, I tend not to rely on The Register for in-depth or in-telligent
analysis of IT events and announcements

For those who are interested the Virtual Server 2005 "stuff" is at:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...s/default.mspx

and there is a Powerpoint which touches on Hypervisor technology at:

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...8_WinHEC05.ppt


Brett Roberts
Microsoft NZ


 
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thingy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
Brett Roberts wrote:
> "thingy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>>
>>Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
>>year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly a
>>year earlier then MS.....
>>
>>regards
>>
>>Thing

>
>
> Personally, I tend not to rely on The Register for in-depth or in-telligent
> analysis of IT events and announcements
>
> For those who are interested the Virtual Server 2005 "stuff" is at:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...s/default.mspx
>
> and there is a Powerpoint which touches on Hypervisor technology at:
>
> http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...8_WinHEC05.ppt
>
>
> Brett Roberts
> Microsoft NZ
>
>


lol....and you expect me to rely on MS?

"queue tui add"

regards

Thing

 
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thingy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
Steven H wrote:
> Hello thingy,
>
> you make it sound like virtual server is not even out yet and is being
> delayed - the artical does give that impression. virtual server has been
> out for a while
>
> what they are talking about is a new architecture of Virtual Server
> whereby a lot of the load of doing 'vemmy things' is done by the
> hardware and not by the virtualized enviroment. i dont fully understand
> it but the current virtual server model has something to do with
> emulating 'ring zero' (i take it a kernal likes to run here) while in
> realeaty its running at 'ring three' of the host system. so multiple
> virtualized operating systems can be ran on the same hardware.
>
> ----------------
> Steven H
>
> the madGeek
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>>
>> Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
>> year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly
>> a year earlier then MS.....
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Thing
>>

>
>


It is also a q of efficiency I believe. ie running a vm situation means
a performance penalty anything from 5 to 20%.

The new CPUs allow more/better virtualisation in hardware, so less of a
hit, be interesting to see which of the new generation of CPUs is better
AMD or Xeon.....

regards

Thing














 
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AD.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
Hypervisor?

My rough understanding:

Xen has always used a hypervisor, hence the superior performance over
something like VMware which trys to emulate an entire virtual machine.

Traditionally on x86 platforms though, there was no native support for
hypervisor based virtualisation. Xen required changes to the guest
kernels to run. These changes were designed to intercept the few x86
instructions that could be hypervised and translate them.

But new hardware designs from AMD and Intel (Pacifica and Vanderpool I
think) remove the old limitations from the hardware. This means that
VMware and Virtual Server can now do hypervisor based virtualisation,
and that Xen can now do it with needed changes to the guest OSes.

Good news all round. VMware and Virtual Server can now run faster (with
the release of their new hypervisor versions), and Xen can now run
unmodified guests.

--
Cheers
Anton

 
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thingy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
Rimu Atkinson wrote:
> thingy wrote:
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>>
>> Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
>> year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly
>> a year earlier then MS.....
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Thing

>
> hahaha
>
> you can't help yourself, can you?
>
>
>
> R


heh.....sometimes I just bite (re earlier posts on OSS "slippage")

There is some justification in time to market though, ie there are signs
that the hardware is being delayed because MS cannot keep up with its OS
shipping dates with the new features installed. So Linux and other OSes
are being penalised because Intel does a deal with MS and delays its new
toys until MS is ready.......probably helps AMD to keep up (or get
ahead) no end.....

regards

Thing


 
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Shane
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
thingy wrote:

> Brett Roberts wrote:
>> "thingy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>>>
>>>Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June this
>>>year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it, possibly a
>>>year earlier then MS.....
>>>
>>>regards
>>>
>>>Thing

>>
>>
>> Personally, I tend not to rely on The Register for in-depth or
>> in-telligent
>> analysis of IT events and announcements
>>
>> For those who are interested the Virtual Server 2005 "stuff" is at:
>>
>>

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...s/default.mspx
>>
>> and there is a Powerpoint which touches on Hypervisor technology at:
>>
>>

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...8_WinHEC05.ppt
>>
>>
>> Brett Roberts
>> Microsoft NZ
>>
>>

>
> lol....and you expect me to rely on MS?
>
> "queue tui add"
>
> regards
>
> Thing


The link he provides says the same thing the register said....
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...05pricing.mspx
Right down to the delay,
As previously announced, Virtual Server 2005 R2 service pack 1 is scheduled
for a beta release in Q2 and general availability in early 2007.

the partnership with xen
To foster interoperability of virtualization technologies, Microsoft
continues to license royalty-free the Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) format of
Microsoft Virtual Server. There are now more than 45 vendors signed up in
this royalty-free license program, including Akimbi, Brocade, Diskeeper,
Fujitsu-Siemens, Network Appliance, Platespin, Softricity, Virtual Iron,
and XenSource.

the linux support
Starting today, customers can consolidate their Linux-based applications on
Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2 and receive 24-hour support from
Microsoft. In order to improve the interoperability of Linux guest
operating systems and Virtual Server 2005 R2, Microsoft is releasing
virtual machine add-ins that can be installed in Linux guests to help
improve the following capabilities:

And the addins
The virtual machine add-ins are available as a free download, and are
supported for an initial set of nine Linux distributions listed below:

Enterprise distributions:
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1 (update 6)
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 (update 6)
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4
Novell’s SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 9

Standard distributions:
Red Hat Linux 7.3
Red Hat Linux 9.0
Novell’s SuSE Linux 9.2
Novell’s SuSE Linux 9.3
Novell’s SuSE Linux 10.0


(Id stay with the register though.. )
--
Rule 6: There is no Rule 6.
 
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Steven H
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2006
Hello thingy,

> It is also a q of efficiency I believe. ie running a vm situation
> means a performance penalty anything from 5 to 20%.


i am not quite sure how much of a perf penalty there is but considering all
the 'ring swapping' that goes on to make virtualized systems feel at home
i wouldnt be surprised if there is a high penalty.

this design is one of the reasons behind putting the virtualization on the
chip, mix that with knowledge of whether a os is running on a virtualized
machine or not and you could get some pretty decent speed. the reasoning
behind the virtualized system knowing its running virtualized or not is because
it can optomise calls the kernal makes - it can either call the hardware
or call the host kernal to do a job on the virtualized kernals behaf.

----------------
Steven H

the madGeek

> Steven H wrote:
>
>> Hello thingy,
>>
>> you make it sound like virtual server is not even out yet and is
>> being delayed - the artical does give that impression. virtual server
>> has been out for a while
>>
>> what they are talking about is a new architecture of Virtual Server
>> whereby a lot of the load of doing 'vemmy things' is done by the
>> hardware and not by the virtualized enviroment. i dont fully
>> understand it but the current virtual server model has something to
>> do with emulating 'ring zero' (i take it a kernal likes to run here)
>> while in realeaty its running at 'ring three' of the host system. so
>> multiple virtualized operating systems can be ran on the same
>> hardware.
>>
>> ----------------
>> Steven H
>> the madGeek
>>
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04..._virtual_free/
>>>
>>> Of course MS slips again on delivery, so the CPUS are there (June
>>> this year) and OSS (Xen & RH) will be shipping software to use it,
>>> possibly a year earlier then MS.....
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Thing
>>>

> It is also a q of efficiency I believe. ie running a vm situation
> means a performance penalty anything from 5 to 20%.
>
> The new CPUs allow more/better virtualisation in hardware, so less of
> a hit, be interesting to see which of the new generation of CPUs is
> better AMD or Xeon.....
>
> regards
>
> Thing
>



 
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