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Xtra to block Port 25 - no more mail servers

 
 
s.t.e.v.e.
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      03-28-2006
Fred Dagg wrote:

>
> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
>
> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
>
> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
> forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
>
> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail servers.


This is the main reason why I went Orcon UBS. Who wants an ISP dictating
what you can use your connection for? Just bill me for the data, thanks.

Xtra has always banned the operation of servers by home users.

They just didn't enforce it before.


 
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s.t.e.v.e.
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      03-28-2006
whoisthis wrote:

>
> I set up google mail so I could have pop/smtp from anywhere in the world
> and not have to resort to a crap webmail interface.
>
> Oh well, just another reason to leave xtra for someone else.


You got it in one.

 
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The Other Guy
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      03-28-2006
Allistar wrote:
> I can set up a mail server that listens on port 1025, and setup my mail
> client to check mail on my host, with port=1025. Same thing with port 110.


You mean 'send', not 'check', since SMTP is not involved in client delivery.

> I can tell my mail server to listen on any port, and even if I can't, I can
> easily forward incoming on 1025 to 25 on the mail server - all internal, so
> the ISP has no idea. All they see is traffic on port 1025.


You can, but how are OTHER people to send mail to you? They can't,
unless you use a third party mail server as the MX for your domain that
can forward to a non-standard port.

If you want to check the practicality of this yourself, good starting
points would be RFC822 and RFC1034.

The Other Guy
 
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whoisthis
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      03-28-2006
In article <FxYVf.199048$(E-Mail Removed)> ,
MarkH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> whoisthis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:who-B92E10.22281027032006
> @news.xtra.co.nz:
>
> > Xtra is a MSN outlet.... this will effectively kill off access to google
> > mail too....
> >
> > I set up google mail so I could have pop/smtp from anywhere in the world
> > and not have to resort to a crap webmail interface.
> >
> > Oh well, just another reason to leave xtra for someone else.

>
> Ahem *cough* *cough* *cough*
>
> Um, yeah - GMail does not use Port 25! Outgoing is through port 465, NOT
> the standard port 25. Incoming mail is through port 995. So this will NOT
> effectively kill off access to Google mail.
>
> Of course I would not use Xtra anyway - they suck!


You are of course correct, interestingly enough I have been using port
25 with no issues......
 
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Alan
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      03-28-2006

"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Fred Dagg wrote:
>> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
>> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html
>>
>> Basically, you wont be able to use your own mail server, unless you
>> forward everything through Xtra's buggy servers.
>>
>> There is a rumour that Xtra will provide an opt-out... At a cost.
>> Thereby taxing customers who choose to manage their own mail
>> servers.

>
> Sadly, I guess there are more trojan spam mail servers on users
> machines
> than there are mail servers intentionally set up by users.
>
> So, there is a benefit in shutting out all those spam trojans,
> albeit at the
> cost of a few users who run their own mail servers.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>


I am no expert in this, but how would it stop zombie machines sending
out spam if Xtra block port 25?

Surely the spam will still get out, it just means that Xtra customers
cannot receive 'pushed' email into their machines?

Alan.


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Alan
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      03-28-2006


"Aaron Lawrence" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On a pleasant day while strolling in nz.comp, a person by the name
> of
> Fred Dagg exclaimed:
>>
>> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
>>
>> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html

>
> Somewhat reasonable. It's true that this cuts off all the trojaned
> zombies from being able to send mail, although some will now send
> through the ISP server.
>


Surely the spam will still get out, it just means that Xtra customers
cannot receive 'pushed' email into their machines?

You can send information *out* from any port you choose I would think?

Alan.

--

The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
else associated with me.

My current valid email address is:

(E-Mail Removed)

This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

If you are trying to contact me after that time,
it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
to contact me by email, try searching for a
more recent post by me to find my current
email address.

The following is a (probably!) totally unique
and meaningless string of characters that you
can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

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Alan
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      03-28-2006

"Allistar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I can set up a mail server that listens on port 1025, and setup my
> mail
> client to check mail on my host, with port=1025. Same thing with
> port 110.
>
> I can tell my mail server to listen on any port, and even if I
> can't, I can
> easily forward incoming on 1025 to 25 on the mail server - all
> internal, so
> the ISP has no idea. All they see is traffic on port 1025.
>
> Allistar.
>


You could, but how are you going to receive anything?

All your incoming mail will be directed at port 25. If you set your
mail server to listen to port 1025 then it will not hear anything when
the 'postman' comes knocking.

The only way to do what you suggest would be if you have a third party
that receives your email then forwards it to a non standard port for
you.

Or maybe I am missing the point?

Alan.


 
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Alan
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      03-28-2006

"Allistar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I was assuming it would be a mail server used only by yourself for
> sending/receiving email, and it (your mail server) would collect
> your email
> from the standard xtra server on port 25. Should have made that
> clear.
> Basically your mail server would be like a go between between your
> mail
> client and the "real" Xtra server.
>


When you 'collect' mail from Xtra, you will probably connect to their
server's port 110 (POP3) or could be IMAP, but I am assuming POP3.
Which port that request comes out on from your machine doesn't really
matter I think.

What you seem to be describing is not really a mail server, but just a
standard email client such as Outlook Express that pulls your email
off a third party mail server (Xtra) rather than a server that listens
for incoming mail?

Of course, I may be misunderstanding all this in which case please do
enlighten me!

Alan.



--

The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
else associated with me.

My current valid email address is:

(E-Mail Removed)

This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

If you are trying to contact me after that time,
it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
to contact me by email, try searching for a
more recent post by me to find my current
email address.

The following is a (probably!) totally unique
and meaningless string of characters that you
can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb




 
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David Empson
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-28-2006
Alan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I am no expert in this, but how would it stop zombie machines sending
> out spam if Xtra block port 25?


The zombie machine is effectively running a mail server.

If the zombie wants to send a message to (E-Mail Removed), it will do a
DNS lookup to find the mail server for example.com, and will then
attempt to connect to that mail server on port 25.

Because Xtra is blocking port 25, the connection will fail and the
zombie will be prevented from having sent that item of spam.

The zombie will still be able to send spam to other Xtra customers,
since it is able to connect to Xtra's mail server using port 25. It is
then up to Xtra to try to filter out that spam on their mail server.

--
David Empson
(E-Mail Removed)
 
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David Empson
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      03-28-2006
Alan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Aaron Lawrence" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On a pleasant day while strolling in nz.comp, a person by the name
> > of
> > Fred Dagg exclaimed:
> >>
> >> Xtra have announced they are going to block Port 25:
> >>
> >> http://xtra.co.nz/help/0,,13904,00.html

> >
> > Somewhat reasonable. It's true that this cuts off all the trojaned
> > zombies from being able to send mail, although some will now send
> > through the ISP server.

>
> Surely the spam will still get out, it just means that Xtra customers
> cannot receive 'pushed' email into their machines?


Xtra customers won't be receiving mail on port 25 at the moment unless
they are running their own mail server software. We don't know yet what
will happen for such customers as Xtra has been pretty vague.

> You can send information *out* from any port you choose I would think?


Yes, but in order to send mail to another machine, you have to connect
to that machine's port 25. (It doesn't matter what port number you use.)

Xtra is going to block outgoing connections to port 25, so you won't be
able to use SMTP to connect to mail servers except Xtra's own one.

--
David Empson
(E-Mail Removed)
 
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