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The hook in Telecon's new DSL plans

 
 
Rob J
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      02-14-2006
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
says...
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:10:38 +1300, someone purporting to be Rob didst
> scrawl:
>
> >
> > "Matthew Poole" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news(E-Mail Removed)...

> *SNIP*
> > You have to remember that Telecom owns this network, and are the ones who
> > have paid and invested in their network. They spend about 20 million dollars
> > a week (as quoted from the radio) on their network, and this amount that no

> *choke*
> They spend HOW much?! That works out to over a billion dollars a year,
> from a company that had revenue for the '05 financial year of $5.6b.
> That's utter bullshit. Telecom NZ, in that financial year, reported only
> $719m of expenditure in the category into which network management
> expenses fall, and that category includes a whole bunch of other things
> too.
> If they actually spend that much, we shouldn't be seeing OECD reports that
> slate how little is spent on network management in this country.
>
> > other ISP could afford to pay. I mean we don't NEED the internet to live.
> > Yes it isn't good that we don't have the speed offered in UK, but these ISPs
> > who are bitching, such as that moaning woman who owns Slingshot, there is
> > nothing stopping them setting up their own network, wired or wireless. Woosh
> > have done it.

> *yawn* In the modern era, the 'net is an essential tool for business
> competitiveness. If telecommuting is ever to take off in this country it's
> also essential for residential users.
> Your blinkers need to come off, Rob. Telecom has spent ****-all on
> improving the network from what was purchased from the NZ taxpayer at a
> significant discount. Most of their expenditure has been rolling the
> network out to new subdivisions.


OK then, how do you suppose LLU is going to result in cheaper pricing,
because the history of LLU in electricity has been steadily rising
prices.

Moreover, Telecom was poised to invest large sums into network upgrading
over the next few years, they're hardly likely to now unless they get a
watertight guarantee there won't be any LLU.

If, as we are often told Telecom's network is in need of large sums of
investment, then under LLU that's quite likely to happen - and it all
costs money.
 
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MarkH
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      02-14-2006
Nova <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:43f14a57$(E-Mail Removed):

> Matthew Poole wrote:
>> As explained by Juha, in
>> http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/...1CC2571140028E
>> 35A, if ANY ONE of the ISPs to whom the new UBS offering is made
>> available chooses not to accept it, the offer is unavailable to ALL
>> of them! This is outright evil on Telecon's part, all the more so
>> that they will be offering the faster speeds through Xtra regardless
>> of the existence of a wholesale offering.
>>
>> A margin of $2.14/customer is completely ridiculous, and it's obscene
>> that the Evil Empire actually think they can get away with such
>> tactics. Roll on regulation!
>>

>
> With these new plans with people on faster speeds, if Telecom are not
> going to increase the 24kbit allowance per customer, then these speeds
> of 2megabits and 3.5 megabits are rarely going to be achieved anyway..
>
> It appears it's all marketing rather than actually delivering anything
> useful...
>
> What is the point of having 3.5megabits downstream if you can only get
> 24kbits if everyone else is using their connection


I have to agree. This is the cause of the problems with Orcon, 24kbit per
2Mbit customer is absolutely ridiculous. 24kbit per 256kbit customer might
be OK, but 2Mbit is 8x as fast and the traffic allowance needs to be at
least doubled.



--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
"The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
Maskerade
 
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Richard
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      02-14-2006
Zonky wrote:
> "Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1139900652.574915@ftpsrv1:
>
>
>>The price of phone calls in the UK are very
>>high, but internet is cheap and fast. It is an either or situation.
>>

>
>
> The price of phone calls in the UK is _cheaper_ than NZ.
>
> With various phone companies, you can call for 1.5p (connection fee) then
> 0p per minute- nationwide.
>
> I paid 2p per minute UK -> NZ for international.
>
> I'd like to see an offer in NZ that can match those figures.


You only get rates like that thru the calling cards - I was told that the costs
of getting a call off the telecom network as a direct dial call make rates like
that uneconomic, and that in a lot of cases the amount going to telecom is
higher then the whole cost of the call via a calling card like kiaora card or
chitel, there is a reason they use a local number to get the calls, and thats
simply that its free for them that way.
 
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Richard
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      02-14-2006
Rob J wrote:

> OK then, how do you suppose LLU is going to result in cheaper pricing,
> because the history of LLU in electricity has been steadily rising
> prices.
>
> Moreover, Telecom was poised to invest large sums into network upgrading
> over the next few years, they're hardly likely to now unless they get a
> watertight guarantee there won't be any LLU.
>
> If, as we are often told Telecom's network is in need of large sums of
> investment, then under LLU that's quite likely to happen - and it all
> costs money.


They can run there overpriced new network on the same unbundled crap copper that
others have access to under unbundling as far as I am concerned. What the
concern is about is if telecom will have to open access up to there fiber to the
kerb network they keep promising will happen one day which is the prime reason
there should be a split between lines and services, so there concern becomes a
non-issue. It should also extend to telstra-clears network just to be fair IMHO.
 
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A Nice Cup of Tea
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-14-2006
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:10:38 +1300, Rob wrote:

> You have to remember that Telecom owns this network, and are the ones who
> have paid and invested in their network.


What *utter* rubbish!

The people of New Zealand paid for and invested in the network over many
many decades.

The network got sold to Telecon for pittance, and since then Telecon has
only tinkered with parts of it.


A Nice Cup of Tea

--
A: because it messes up threading
Q: why should I not reply by top-posting?
A: No.
Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

 
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Waylon Kenning
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      02-14-2006
T'was the Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:27:38 +1300 when I remembered A Nice Cup
of Tea <(E-Mail Removed)> saying something like this:

>> You have to remember that Telecom owns this network, and are the ones who
>> have paid and invested in their network.

>
>What *utter* rubbish!
>
>The people of New Zealand paid for and invested in the network over many
>many decades.
>
>The network got sold to Telecon for pittance, and since then Telecon has
>only tinkered with parts of it.


Uhm, that doesn't make his statement untrue though.
--
Cheers,

Waylon Kenning.
See my blog at http://spaces.msn.com/WaylonKenning/
 
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Nova
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      02-14-2006
Rob wrote:
> "Matthew Poole" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:02:04 +1300, someone purporting to be jedmeister
>> didst scrawl:
>>
>>> "Matthew Poole" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news(E-Mail Removed)...

>> *SNIP*
>>> I doubt you will be proven right - but, I hope so, and have been hoping
>>> for
>>> the last 8 years.

>> If it doesn't happen this time around, it's never going to happen. Even I
>> recognise that.
>> National and Act absolutely will not, ever, do anything, and the time will
>> never be better for Labour than it is right now.
>>
>> --
>> Matthew Poole
>> "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."

>
> Yes it is now or never, as Labour will use it a vote collector, and this
> will be their last term. They however risk damaging the economy if it isn't
> done cautiously.
>
>


Isn't the economy already being damaged by businesses not be able to
have decent internet here at reasonable prices?
 
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Crash
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      02-14-2006
A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:10:38 +1300, Rob wrote:
>
>
>>You have to remember that Telecom owns this network, and are the ones who
>>have paid and invested in their network.

>
>
> What *utter* rubbish!
>
> The people of New Zealand paid for and invested in the network over many
> many decades.
>
> The network got sold to Telecon for pittance, and since then Telecon has
> only tinkered with parts of it.


You should have had another cuppa before sending your response. What Rob said
is completely true. You riposte simply adds some irrelevant detail.

When the government sold Telecom (converting it from an SOE to a privately-owned
company) the new owners paid an agreed price and have since continued to operate
Telecom as a going concern. Whether the price paid was fair or not and whether
Telecom have since fairly maintained or enhanced their assets is irrelevant to
the point made by Rob.

There is a point that seems to be missed by everyone is that in opening Telecom
to competition the competitors are likely to be telcos who occupy a similar
position (last mile monopoly) in their home countries, are of a size vastly
bigger than Telecom, totally foreign-owned and therefore head-officed offshore.

Crash.
 
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Matthew Poole
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-14-2006
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:15:37 +1300, someone purporting to be Rob J didst
scrawl:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
> says...

*SNIP*
> National at least can see that throttling Telecom is playing straight
> into the hands of several large Australian-owned ISPs. Strangle Telecom
> too much and Telstra or iinet will be happy to take over, after
> Telecom's plummetting share value has wiped a big chunk off the NZSE40.


Telecom's importance to the NZSE40 is being waved around like it's the
only possible consideration. What damage is being done to the economy by
their rapacious greed? I would say that whatever happens to their share
price is far outweighed by the extremely excessive prices paid for basic
connectivity in this country.

--
Matthew Poole
"Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."

 
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Shane
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      02-14-2006
On 2006-02-14, Crash <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> There is a point that seems to be missed by everyone is that in opening Telecom
> to competition the competitors are likely to be telcos who occupy a similar
> position (last mile monopoly) in their home countries, are of a size vastly
> bigger than Telecom, totally foreign-owned and therefore head-officed offshore.
>
> Crash.


Its that point that really makes life difficult for the .govt, if they over regulate
(and Helens comments suggest they will)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectid=10368328
they leave the market too open for abuse from overseas (read Telstra) telco's
If they under do it, well we all see the problems there
The *ideal* situation (IMO)might be something like railways, the .govt buys back
the lines, and then charges them out to Telco/ISP's, for their use.
Although the price set by Telecom may be ... prohibitive
 
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