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Xtras spam filtering doesn't work.

 
 
PC
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      02-14-2006
"Steve" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
snip

> and people like telstra go for massively expensive US
> products like Brightmail -

snip
> Steve
>


I would venture these outfits go for the likes of Brightmail simply because
of the mindset; suits, ROI, percentages, them & us, private enterprise,
figures & numbers, bottom lines, bonus's and of course that most critical of
attributes 'someone to blame when it goes tits up'.

I'm sure if you do some digging around you'll find many of these corportate
high flyers just can't see what people complain about (think of the Sony
Root kit response "do they know what a root kit is?")
Their whole existence is one of deal, counter deal, budgets ie life revolves
around their business.

Sorry mate business revolves around life. Life is full of crap. Crap needs
to be cleaned up. Put in some decent Spam filters.

PeeCee


 
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Who Am I
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      02-14-2006
In article <1139905625.198375@ftpsrv1>, "Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> "whoisthis" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > In article <1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1>, "Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
> >> on
> >> my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
> >> delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
> >> coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is
> >> working
> >> anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
> >> 'Brightmail',
> >> but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be Symantec. I
> >> have
> >> another email account with another company, and the spam filtering uses
> >> death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam. Anyone else
> >> having
> >> a problem with xtras spam filtering service?

> >
> > A month or so back I was getting 3-7 spams a WEEK, now I am getting
> > 10-20 a DAY.
> >
> > I now check the spam manually via the web page and move it into another
> > folder, this has the effect of leaving the spam on Xtras servers.
> >
> > My view is if they want to save money by supplying a CRAP service, then
> > they can keep the spam on their servers and has the issues of storage,
> > back-up etc.
> >
> > Thus far over the last 10 days I have about 1Meg of spam stored there,
> > now imagine what would happen if all 200,000 users did the same..... in
> > a month they would be looking at storing, backing up and maintaining a
> > TeraByte of spam or more !
> >
> > Apart from that, I have now set up a GMail account. This has the
> > advantage that:
> > 1) They supply a lot more storage than Xtra do
> > 2) They have far better spam filtering
> > 3) They has POP access from anywhere in the world (no more of xtras
> > crappy webmail system)
> > 4) If you change ISPs then you do not loose your email address.

>
>
> Xtra have told me that since xmas, alot more spam has been getting through
> and they are struggling with it all, as a lot of it is targeted at xtra
> customers email address. Leaving your spam on the server will only affect
> your mailboxes performance. This is because xtra only give you 12MB of
> diskspace. I used to let xtras spam filter put it all into a spam folder
> too, but within a few months, it had used up all my disksapce, and emails
> that were sent to me were bouncing back to the sender as there was no space
> in my email account.


What a load of crap. in the last 2 months I have seen an increase of
about 3000% , yeah thats right 3000%. I went from about 4 spams a WEEK
to up to 20 a DAY. There is NOWAY that spam internationally has
increased by that much.

Also if that were true then the amount of spam they filter out would
also have increased, however over the last few days with my spam being
sent to the "spam" mail box I can see that Xtra is filtering out only
about 50% of the spam.... AND THAT IS CRAP SERVICE. My spam filter on my
mail client is recognising 99% of the stuff getting though as spam and I
have not manually changed anything in my filters for over 6 months.

Bottom line is that Xtra is telling lies to customers about the reduced
quality of service they are now offering. When the new plans come out I
will be shifting ISPs to a more reputable one.
 
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Who Am I
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      02-14-2006
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
"XPD" <(E-Mail Removed)....nz> wrote:

> "Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
> > Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
> > on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to automatically
> > delete spam from the server, however I am still getting about 10-20 spam
> > coming through a day. I don't believe that their spam filtering is working
> > anymore, or something has gone wrong with it. It says it uses
> > 'Brightmail', but 'Brightmail' no long seems to exist and now looks to be
> > Symantec. I have another email account with another company, and the spam
> > filtering uses death2spam, and that seems to detect almost all the spam.
> > Anyone else having a problem with xtras spam filtering service?
> >

>
> My reply to a similar post a while ago....
>
>
> "Who Am I" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >I have noticed that since Xtra started selling their internet security
> > "package" (what ever that is), there seems to be more spam coming
> > through, now if I were of a suspicious nature I would be inclined to say
> > they have made their filters "leaky" to encourage you to pay for their
> > new system.
> >
> > Before they started selling it I got 1-4 spams a month, now I can get
> > 2-3 a day coming though.
> >
> > I don't run windows so I can't (and don't want anyway) their pay for
> > security suite.
> >
> > Anyone else have thoughts about this....

>
> You hit it right on the head.
> Bascially the ISP (and I know of a few that have done this) still offers a
> basic filter for those who dont want the "best" filter.... the basic one
> gets updated maybe once a month if youre lucky and the "best" one gets
> updated everyday.... eventually (they hope) you'll swap to the better
> one.....
>
> Easiest thing to do is to start running your own mailserver.........


Why, by running my own mail server I am still downloading them spam. My
solution was to set up a gmail address, that way I get POP3 access from
all over the world and don't have to cope with Xtras shitty webmail
service. It also means that I can swap ISPs with no lost mail.
 
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Gavin Tunney
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      02-15-2006
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:55:12 +1300, "Craig Whitmore"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"PC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:KB9If.146234$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> "Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
>>> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
>>> on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to
>>> automatically

>
>I've love to know what people think of ISP's Spam Filtering..
>A Comment that Xtra's doesnt' work "that well", but what about
>Paradise/Orcon
>IHUG/ICONZ etc. What are people's experiences of other ISP's.
>


I use Outersite Craig, very happy with their spam filtering.

I have a backup Orcon account that I never use for email, but still
get loads of spam to it. A while back I enabled the filters & told it
to delete all spam. Just checked the webmail & there's 42 spams got
thru the filters, been a few months since I last checked but going by
past history I'd say there's a good thousand spams were junked by
Orcons filter... 4% odd isn't a bad average IMO but could be better
as some of the spam it missed was pretty obvious.

Xtras spam filtering looks to have fallen by the wayside, had someone
call me about it today & she said she's getting loads of 'typical'
spam thru Xtra every day at present... penis enlargement etc which any
halfway decent filter should be catching. I assumed Xtra's spam filter
had broken, if they've deliberately crippled their filtering then
that's a dirty trick. I've been getting some spam thru them too
lately, none of it has been marked as spam by them either they used to
put SPAM in the header. Dunno why that started up, I haven't had spam
to that address for years as I never use it.

Btw Orcons website is pretty irritating. Try disabling active
scripting in the internet zone, putting Orcon into the trusted zone &
then logging in to your Orcon account with IE......just sits there
with a recursive 'logging in' screen & never goes any further.

Cheers

Gavin
 
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Steve
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      02-16-2006
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 23:04:16 +1300, Craig Whitmore wrote:

>
> "> I think you mean a false positive of 0.1% or less? It really hacks me off
>> that there's a kiwi product out there that cuts my spam down from 500/day
>> to 3/week with my first flase positive of the year today ( standard mail
>> from suse ), and people like telstra go for massively expensive US
>> products like Brightmail - and don't size their boxes properly either.
>>

>
> Yes 0.1% FP.
>
> I presume your talking about MailWasher.. Yes it works.. but alot of
> people hate it due to (I think its still in it). the option of "bouncing
> emails"
> which could (in theory) get you kicked off your ISP for breaking its
> T&C for forging emails. Personally I have warned people of using
> its feature in the past when it first came out.
>
> (See: http://www.blakjak.net/node/134 )
>
>
>> And people like xtra will force a third rate solution at extra cost to
>> their customers by (at least it looks like this top me) removing all spam
>> blocks if you don't pay!

>
> The problem I see (at the moment) there really had been no Spam
> Filtering "Bakeoffs" between Various Spam Systems (100's of them)
> Brightmail, D2S, DSpam, SpamAssassin.... Yes they all "work" but
> compared to each other. 90% 95%, 99%. accuracy..what do people
> accept.
>
> Thanks
> Craig

No, the server version doesn't bounce anything. Just quarantines
everything away from the user's mailbox.

debian linux
sendmail
clam av
mailwasher

a complete FL/OSS solution. Granted you still have to download the spam (
and pay for that bandwidth - something people seem to forget! ) on to
your server, but you don't wade through 6 toms of spam in your inbox every
morning.

Steve

 
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Stu Fleming
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      02-16-2006
Steve wrote:

> debian linux
> sendmail
> clam av
> mailwasher


debian
qmail
vpopmail
clamav
spamassassin/spamd
clamd-queue
procmail
training on spam/ham in crontab on IMAP mailboxes and quarantined spam
directories

99.5%
 
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Craig Whitmore
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      02-16-2006

> debian
> qmail
> vpopmail
> clamav
> spamassassin/spamd
> clamd-queue
> procmail
> training on spam/ham in crontab on IMAP mailboxes and quarantined spam
> directories
>
> 99.5%


The problem with detecting spam is, the type of spam you are getting is not
the same as everyone else's. I trained on my messages only to me.. I was
getting like 1 message in 1000 wrong (and thats pretty impressive for only
about a months worth of emails).
Then I started using it on a few spamtrap domains (domains which where
previously used for ISP's which don't exist anymore) and the accuracy
went down quite alot (from 99.9% to 99% accuracy (pretty bad)
(1 in 1000 to 1 in 100 wrong) (10 times as much spam got thru)

Just because the type of spam was quite different that what I personally
got. I've used SpamAssassin before and the accuracy with its type
of spam detection (rules and its really bad bayesian implemenation) only
gets around 95% accuracy on a large number of people's emails
with different types of spam where other better just bayesian only
systems get 99%+. (4% difference DOES make a big different in
large amounts of email (talking like 100000+ messages a day)

Testing for Spam in heurstic (SpamAssassin) or Bayesian (DSPAM/D2S)
has a large overhead, but simple rules before it even gets into
testing of spam can get rid of over 1/2 the messages. Sendmail standard
rules lets ALOT of invalid email thru, exim and postfix are a little
better, but a little time can reject alot of emails which are invalid
in the 1st place (invalid HELO's/Header checks, Callbacks,
Forcing people to say HELO/EHLO 1st are all things you can
add in which are good checks to do) + there are things like SRS,BATV,SES
which can be used to stop joejobbed, SPF (yes which DOES stop spam)
but not designed to stop spam, more designed to make it so people
can't pretent to be you and use your domain.

Thanks
Craig


 
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whoisthis
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      02-17-2006
In article <43f442e6$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Craig Whitmore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > debian
> > qmail
> > vpopmail
> > clamav
> > spamassassin/spamd
> > clamd-queue
> > procmail
> > training on spam/ham in crontab on IMAP mailboxes and quarantined spam
> > directories
> >
> > 99.5%

>
> The problem with detecting spam is, the type of spam you are getting is not
> the same as everyone else's. I trained on my messages only to me.. I was
> getting like 1 message in 1000 wrong (and thats pretty impressive for only
> about a months worth of emails).
> Then I started using it on a few spamtrap domains (domains which where
> previously used for ISP's which don't exist anymore) and the accuracy
> went down quite alot (from 99.9% to 99% accuracy (pretty bad)
> (1 in 1000 to 1 in 100 wrong) (10 times as much spam got thru)
>
> Just because the type of spam was quite different that what I personally
> got. I've used SpamAssassin before and the accuracy with its type
> of spam detection (rules and its really bad bayesian implemenation) only
> gets around 95% accuracy on a large number of people's emails
> with different types of spam where other better just bayesian only
> systems get 99%+. (4% difference DOES make a big different in
> large amounts of email (talking like 100000+ messages a day)
>
> Testing for Spam in heurstic (SpamAssassin) or Bayesian (DSPAM/D2S)
> has a large overhead, but simple rules before it even gets into
> testing of spam can get rid of over 1/2 the messages. Sendmail standard
> rules lets ALOT of invalid email thru, exim and postfix are a little
> better, but a little time can reject alot of emails which are invalid
> in the 1st place (invalid HELO's/Header checks, Callbacks,
> Forcing people to say HELO/EHLO 1st are all things you can
> add in which are good checks to do) + there are things like SRS,BATV,SES
> which can be used to stop joejobbed, SPF (yes which DOES stop spam)
> but not designed to stop spam, more designed to make it so people
> can't pretent to be you and use your domain.
>
> Thanks
> Craig


Another solution is to ring Xtra and explain you are ****ed off with the
spam and if they can not fix their filters you will choose to swap to
another ISP..... you may suggest that you may also switch your phone and
your tolls at the same time too !, THAT caught their attention !!!
 
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David
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      02-17-2006
Craig Whitmore wrote:
> "PC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:KB9If.146234$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> "Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:1139875729.372222@ftpsrv1...
>>> Over the last few months I have been getting a lot of spam coming through
>>> on my xtra email account. I have got it setup in webmail, to
>>> automatically

>
> I've love to know what people think of ISP's Spam Filtering..
> A Comment that Xtra's doesnt' work "that well", but what about
> Paradise/Orcon
> IHUG/ICONZ etc. What are people's experiences of other ISP's.
>
> Thanks
> Craig
>
>


I get awesome spam filtering from orcon, all for free (My ISP is xtra).
I have thunderbird set to download the spam but move it to a junk folder
because I'm paranoid about missing a false positive, although it hasn't
happened yet.
 
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